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Sony W4100 series thread - Page 5

post #121 of 2871
So Bill stewart withought any offense why dont you try a replacement?Its more likely to be cloud free rather than again cloudy.I think it worth more than just complaining.BTW I think you really had bad luck
post #122 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISGEOFROMGREE View Post

So Bill stewart withought any offense why dont you try a replacement?Its more likely to be cloud free rather than again cloudy.I think it worth more than just complaining.BTW I think you really had bad luck

I'd be willing to were it not for the fact that the V I had looked equally as bad. I am bummed, other than this issue (which really was bad enough to be distracting). I thought the PQ was exceptional.
post #123 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger 518 View Post

Checked out a 52W4100 in person today at a Sony Style store in Woodlands, Texas. Lucky enough to had a XBR4 next to it. Really liked the looks of the 4100. The 4100 sure handles motion better and had better blacks than the XBR4 but that is about it. Remote control on the 4100 is not back-lite & looked very plain/cheap. The picture just looked brighter & had better colors on the XBR then the 4100 ... Hopefully the poorer picture was a fluke & not because of the 8 bit panel vs. the 10 bit panel. (Please note, I said poorer as in worse then the XBR, not poor!)

The WCG backlight in the XBR4 probably makes a bigger difference than the 10-bit panel.

Questions for W4100 owners: does it have a Live Color option? Does it make a noticeable difference?
post #124 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Huh, interesting...you have me complaining about XBR4's...never owned one.

my apologies on that bit as I got you confused with another Bill/Will who also complained about xbr4 clouds/flaslights.

Quote:


It seems you prefer the hide your head in the sand way of doing things.

I don't know what you really mean by that or if its just a lil jab at me, but I'm not ignorant of this issue or pretend that it's a non-issue. heck, that's what I'm (and most are) here for, I want to find out and learn about the defects and flaws of certain TVs before I buy one and I'm more than happy to have other owners point out their problems and share their experiences. because we're all in this together right? that's what AVS forums is all about.

So yeh, I'd really appreciated if you could posts some pics pointing out the particular issues with the tv so that we could all discuss it, learn from it and bring it to people's attention, rather than you just whining that you can't tolerate it at all and then proceed to bash the TV as a whole due to one particular issue as if it applied to everyone. I know you probably didn't mean to, but from the sound or tone of your posts it does seem to me like you were trolling, so my apologies if I misinterpret it as such.

Quote:


The unit is already removed from the pedestal and re-boxed. If it would make you happy, I could take a picture of the box for you.

I thought the W4100 come with the pedestal already attached? because the pics posted by Hagert seems to indicate they come with the pedestal already attached out of the box and the spec sheet also indicates this. anyways, as the saying goes...pics or it didn't happen .
post #125 of 2871
What are clouds and flashlights, in reference t LCD TVs? A page or two back pictures were posted, but I do not see what they are trying to show me. Could somebody explain that also.
post #126 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCT6416UIIIuser View Post

What are clouds and flashlights, in reference t LCD TVs? A page or two back pictures were posted, but I do not see what they are trying to show me. Could somebody explain that also.

Dont worry about flashlighting. Its when there are slightly brighter spots in teh corners of an lcd panel where the backlight "bleeds" through when it shouldn't against the dark screen. Not a problem on the sony's unless you go out of your way to look for it. No problems.....
post #127 of 2871
if the w4100 handle motion better than xbr4 . im sold !!

i didnt buy the xbr4 until now because of its bad motion, smearing...

i really dont like the blur in lcd. but i prefer lcd over plasma anyway.

so if w4100 has less blur than most lcd i will buy it


someone else can confirm that
post #128 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Dont worry about flashlighting. Its when there are slightly brighter spots in teh corners of an lcd panel where the backlight "bleeds" through when it shouldn't against the dark screen. Not a problem on the sony's unless you go out of your way to look for it. No problems.....


Ok, and what are clouds?

I have a RPT Sony SXRD. Do they have clouds?
post #129 of 2871
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCT6416UIIIuser View Post

Ok, and what are clouds?

I have a RPT Sony SXRD. Do they have clouds?

post #130 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

I'd be willing to were it not for the fact that the V I had looked equally as bad. I am bummed, other than this issue (which really was bad enough to be distracting). I thought the PQ was exceptional.

Believe me its really a shame not to try a replacement.Get an other W4100.If and the replacement has it then go to plasma route
post #131 of 2871
Sounds like a true gaming contender.

I have almost ruled out the Samsung 750/650 due to the need to run games in GameMode (to prevent lag) and then not have ANY access to any PQ adjustments.

The next choice is the XBR4/5 which has a very similar Game/Text mode, but allows for some adjustments in this mode. However, the "smearing" problem still seems prevalent in this mode.

If this TV has been rid of the smearing and allow for picture adjustments will in the GameMode then I would say this is the current GamingTV winner. I'll wait for the Z line to see what the thoughts are...but finally, it looks like a TV I can purchase. Thanks for all the gaming info!

Curious, is there a dynamic contrast ratio number for this TV? I was curious how it compares to the 650 and the XBR4.
post #132 of 2871
I believe the dynamic contrast ratio on this is the same as the A550, which is 30K:1, with 3K:1 true contrast (Sony measures in both true and dynamic, unlike Samsung). However, contrast ratio means squat unless it has the processing power to back it up. A lot of people forget that contrast ratio isn't the only thing behind PQ. Response time is another, and right now, Sony's only got 8ms, whereas Samsung has 4ms on their A650/750. There probably are things on Sony's behalf to make the PQ better, and seems like the right processing will balance out the picture quite well.
post #133 of 2871
@datacide Its not the dynamic contrast everything.The blacks make the static contrast.Have you ever wondered why samsung never provides static contrast numbers??Smearing seems like its definitely improved,to the barely noticeable levels from the distracting of XBR4
post #134 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

I believe the dynamic contrast ratio on this is the same as the A550, which is 30K:1, with 3K:1 true contrast (Sony measures in both true and dynamic, unlike Samsung). However, contrast ratio means squat unless it has the processing power to back it up. A lot of people forget that contrast ratio isn't the only thing behind PQ. Response time is another, and right now, Sony's only got 8ms, whereas Samsung has 4ms on their A650/750. There probably are things on Sony's behalf to make the PQ better, and seems like the right processing will balance out the picture quite well.

Oh absolutely, I just never saw the contrast ratio numbers anywhere. However, the 650/750 can be as fast as you like, but if I can't adjust the settings in GameMode and I need to run GameMode to get proper gaming performance...then all that increased performance is completely lost on me. I'll make some sacrifices for proper gaming...and Sony seems to be the only ones doing this (likely cause they are in the game business too).

Is the Z series still with the 8ms response too? I guess no word on the XBR7 response time either?
post #135 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISGEOFROMGREE View Post

@datacide Its not the dynamic contrast everything.The blacks make the static contrast.Have you ever wondered why samsung never provides static contrast numbers??Smearing seems like its definitely improved,to the barely noticeable levels from the distracting of XBR4

Yeah, that's why I was asking about dynamic contrast ratio...Sammy is sneaky. I just wanted to compare the numbers...I wasn't making it the be all/end all.
post #136 of 2871
Anyway still no word on the bigger XBR6/7 response time maybe that will be the difference with the Z series
post #137 of 2871
yeh maybe the difference between the Z and xbr6/7 is the contrast ratio and response time. so the xbr might be better in that regard therefore justifying the premium paid on it.
post #138 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISGEOFROMGREE View Post

Anyway still no word on the bigger XBR6/7 response time maybe that will be the difference with the Z series

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

yeh maybe the difference between the Z and xbr6/7 is the contrast ratio and response time. so the xbr might be better in that regard therefore justifying the premium paid on it.

It wouldn't make sense to compare contrast ratio's between different manufacturer's models as there is no standard for measuring dynamic contrast.

Similarly, response time specs should state whether they are Black-White-Black or Gray-to-Gray. Otherwise we are not comparing apples to apples.

Aren't Sony and Samsung using panels from S-LCD joint venture? Samsung is claiming their new TVs having 6ms/4ms panels. This could mean any of the following:
* Sony is using older panels (8ms) for W and Z series
* Samsung is not sharing new panel technology with Sony (leading to Sony's joint venture with Sharp)
* Samsung is lying about the faster response times
post #139 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatsay View Post

* Samsung is lying about the faster response times

Well, not necessarily lying. It is also possible that Samsung is quoting GTG, while Sony is quoting MPRT.

But you're right, making sense of quoted response times is increasingly difficult. For example, LG makes 120Hz panels with 8ms MPRT and 5ms GTG response time (according to the LG Display web site). LG quotes 5ms for TVs based on these panels, while Philips quotes 2ms based on a different measurement method. Not surprisingly, nobody uses the 8ms number.

In that respect, response times are even worse than contrast ratios (even though static contrast ratios are quikcly disappearing from spec sheets). At least reviewers can "objectively" measure contrast ratios.
post #140 of 2871
Z series and XBR are both from sony not different manufacturer
post #141 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISGEOFROMGREE View Post

Z series and XBR are both from sony not different manufacturer

But the old panels are from Samsung and the newer panels will be from Sharp...Sony doesn't make LCD panels.
post #142 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

But the old panels are from Samsung and the newer panels will be from Sharp...Sony doesn't make LCD panels.

I don't think Sony has the sharp panels yet as the new plant hasn't been in operation yet. and sony has 49/51 joint venture with samsung in their current factory, so it's not like they're buying it from samsung.
post #143 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

I don't think Sony has the sharp panels yet as the new plant hasn't been in operation yet. and sony has 49/51 joint venture with samsung in their current factory, so it's not like they're buying it from samsung.

Very true...I was speaking in too much generalizations. But it is much more of a Samsung plant than a Sony plant I think. CEO is Samsung, plant is in Korea, etc, etc (plus the expansion of the plant is being done without Sony) But I agree...they aren't buying the panels off of Samsung, they are doing joint-venture RnD.

I guess a better statement would have been "The current panels are the same as Samsung's and the future ones will be the same as Sharp's"
post #144 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Very true...I was speaking in too much generalizations. But it is much more of a Samsung plant than a Sony plant I think. CEO is Samsung, plant is in Korea, etc, etc (plus the expansion of the plant is being done without Sony) But I agree...they aren't buying the panels off of Samsung, they are doing joint-venture RnD.

I guess a better statement would have been "The current panels are the same as Samsung's and the future ones will be the same as Sharp's"

I just hope they are not coming from Sharp too soon.
post #145 of 2871
You don't have to worry, Sony will hold Sharp accountable to high standards, and make double sure that banding is at a minimum, if not there at all. They'll reinvent Sharp's panel technology with them to make it perfect. Hey, maybe that'll change the way we see the Aquos line after a while, I should think...
post #146 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by badvideo View Post

I just hope they are not coming from Sharp too soon.

yeh heh, let's hope that new billion dollar factory that sharp is building doesn't produce a bunch of glass with banding issues , but I thought they'd fixed that by now? cuz the 94SE seems to be doing pretty well.
post #147 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by badvideo View Post

I just hope they are not coming from Sharp too soon.

Notice anything strange about the V4100 lineup? It has a 40, 42, 46, and 52.
Samsung (S-LCD) does not make 42" panels. Then, it must be from Sharp!
Sony is using panels from different sources in the V series, I guess.
post #148 of 2871
Only the 42" may be from sharp.The rest will still be S-PVA,also the fact that sony will have a joint venture with sharp doesnt cancel the S-LCD venture as they will continue with both sharp and samsung
post #149 of 2871
j&r is already discounting the 52w4100
post #150 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsmith3 View Post

j&r is already discounting the 52w4100

Won't be too long until Amazon does something themselves, if they ever get them in stock as they advertise them to.
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