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Sony W4100 series thread - Page 4

post #91 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmac1632 View Post

So is the Sony W4100 the equivalent of Samsung A650?

No, not quite.
post #92 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmac1632 View Post

So is the Sony W4100 the equivalent of Samsung A650?

comparing their specs, features and price range, I would say yes. but we still need more impressions from owners and hands on time with the set to know how it will stack up against the 650. so far there's been only one reported owner of the W4100. since it hasn't even been widely available in most stores yet, it's gonna take some time to get to know it more and get some kinda of consensus on the strengths and weaknesses of its PQ and any flaws or issues that will arise. So I'd give it a few weeks to a month before we know for sure if it's in the same league as the 650 or not, by then Cnet should have a review too, which I'll be looking forward to.
post #93 of 2871
What am I supposed to be seeing in the above pictures?
post #94 of 2871
Well, I believe that the Z4100 will probably be closer to the ToC Samsungs, since it'll have the 10-bit panel, which both the A650 and A750 both have, so the Z4100 will probably be somewhere right in the middle of those two. The W4100, on the other hand, will probably be in the middle of the A550 and A650, since the PQ will probably be like the A550, yet the feature set will be like the A650.
post #95 of 2871
One consistent complaint about the Samsung A650 (although not the A750) is its poor sound quality when used stand alone. Yes, hooking it to a home theater takes care of the problem but many of us don't want to have to always do that. The set may even be for a bedroom.

Has anyone commented about the sound quality of the Sony W4100 when used stand alone?

I think the A650's speakers are on the bottom of the set and the speakers fire downward. Where are the W4100's speakers and in what direction do they fire?
post #96 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Poor source choice, Dead Rising employs some of the heaviest motion blur you're likely to find on the consoles (see also Lost Planet). If those are your shots billiam, I hope you had other displays handy for direct comparison. You could have very likely replicated the same effect on a CRT.

i took those dead rising pictures. i know the game uses lots of motion blur but only when you rotate the camera. if you walk forward/backward there is no blur which is what i did for the comparison. what you see in those picture is pretty much dead on what it looked like in real life. the xbr4 is horrid.

i wouldnt mind seeing how the 4100 compares.
post #97 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by YegorT View Post

..
And yet A530 picture quality comparable to Sony V3000.
And in some ways Samsung A650 picture quality is better than Sony V3000 10-bit.

PQ is very subjective. Some like the dynamic bright saturated pictures and the rest like the standard picture modes or their own toned down custom settings for a natural picture. Rarely people watch their TVs at home using the factory settings that are used in stores; specially I haven't heard of many that watch with the default 'dynamic/vivid' mode.

10-bits DO make a difference. It gives way for better skin tones and much smoother gradients. It also helps reduce artifacts due to TV's internal processing such as dynamic contrast, motion processing etc. (by Bravia Engine or DNIe).
To some, the differences (mostly subtle) may not be noticeable. Obviously, if you cannot perceive these differences, go for the 8-bit models that you are happy with.

This year, almost every major manufacturer has 10-bit panels in their high-end models, for a good reason. Samsung 650 has a 10-bit panel - it has been confirmed from the service manual - though Samsung is not touting it.
I am waiting for the Z4100..
post #98 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post

One consistent complaint about the Samsung A650 (although not the A750) is its poor sound quality when used stand alone. Yes, hooking it to a home theater takes care of the problem but many of us don't want to have to always do that. The set may even be for a bedroom.

Has anyone commented about the sound quality of the Sony W4100 when used stand alone?

I think the A650's speakers are on the bottom of the set and the speakers fire downward. Where are the W4100's speakers and in what direction do they fire?

My thoughts exactly, is that S-Force all hype, or is it actually what Sony says it is?
post #99 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

My thoughts exactly, is that S-Force all hype, or is it actually what Sony says it is?

It's no substitute for a receiver and speakers, but it's pretty good. The surround effect is actually quite convincing.
post #100 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatsay View Post

10-bits DO make a difference. It gives way for better skin tones and much smoother gradients. It also helps reduce artifacts due to TV's internal processing such as dynamic contrast, motion processing etc. (by Bravia Engine or DNIe).
To some, the differences (mostly subtle) may not be noticeable. Obviously, if you cannot perceive these differences, go for the 8-bit models that you are happy with.

This year, almost every major manufacturer has 10-bit panels in their high-end models, for a good reason. Samsung 650 has a 10-bit panel - it has been confirmed from the service manual - though Samsung is not touting it.
I am waiting for the Z4100..

Since all our sources are currently 8-bit, an 8-bit panel should be fine as long as internal processing is 10 bits or more and they do a good job mapping internal processed levels back to 8 bits (e.g. with dithering). I don't know how good a job this TV does, but lack of a 10-bit panel doesn't have to mean any noticable reduction in picture quality.
post #101 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Since all our sources are currently 8-bit, an 8-bit panel should be fine as long as internal processing is 10 bits or more and they do a good job mapping internal processed levels back to 8 bits (e.g. with dithering). I don't know how good a job this TV does, but lack of a 10-bit panel doesn't have to mean any noticable reduction in picture quality.

10-bit processed data output to display on an 8-bit panel is currently done by dithering or FRC, which can have an impact on perceived resolution and/or flicker (if the viewer can notice them and this varies from person to person just as individual liking of AMP/Motionflow.)

Like you said, lack of a 10-bit panel doesn't have to mean any noticeable reduction in picture quality, with most picture sources. With the right source (e.g. x.v.color) the advantage will become obvious. And for a demanding viewer with a good vision, it definitely gives more room for improved PQ.
post #102 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Since all our sources are currently 8-bit, an 8-bit panel should be fine as long as internal processing is 10 bits or more and they do a good job mapping internal processed levels back to 8 bits (e.g. with dithering). I don't know how good a job this TV does, but lack of a 10-bit panel doesn't have to mean any noticable reduction in picture quality.

Why would Sony include 10 bit in any of their panels (last year and this) if there was NO difference? Just marketing? I kinda doubt it.
post #103 of 2871
We'll be quite sure that we would definitely see what the difference was between the W4100 and the Z4100, if we saw them side-by-side on the store shelf. So far, up until we know further, I'd say that the PQ of the W4100 may have no change over the XBR4, and the Z4100 will probably look like the XBR5, that's my guess, anyway...
post #104 of 2871
yeah but XBR4/5 dont have technical differencies while W4100 is lower than Z4100
post #105 of 2871
yeh xbr5 is exactly the same as xbr4 with the exception of the glossy black bezel and speaker grilles, some additional inputs and longer warranty.
post #106 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post

One consistent complaint about the Samsung A650 (although not the A750) is its poor sound quality when used stand alone. Yes, hooking it to a home theater takes care of the problem but many of us don't want to have to always do that. The set may even be for a bedroom.

Has anyone commented about the sound quality of the Sony W4100 when used stand alone?

I think the A650's speakers are on the bottom of the set and the speakers fire downward. Where are the W4100's speakers and in what direction do they fire?

if you look at the pics of the W4100, the speakers are on the front, at the bottom, where the gap/hole is. so its going to face the viewer. I know the samsung has terrible speakers because it is hidden behind/under the frame. I had a samsung plasma 450 series a while back and the sound was disgusting to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski510 View Post

The sound on the Sony was way better the the Samsung, even after adjusting the Sammy EQ. The Samsung sounded like it was playing through a soup can. When playing sound through the audio out, the Samsung had a horrible echo effect when the tv speakers where on, you have to turn off the internal speakers to avoid this. On the Sony you could output both at the same time with no echo effect. I know that the internal speakers are meaningless when going with an external sound system but just some fyi.
post #107 of 2871
Ever hopeful, I went out and purchased a 40W4100. While picture quality was exceptional, the clouding/flashlighting were worse than I'd seen in previous sets.
It was just very distracting and unacceptable.

Now will come the A/V know-it-alls who will say a certain amount of this is to be expected.
Why? Is it really difficult to manufacture a panel that's not defective?
I'm constantly amazed that there are people that see this as no big deal. Imo, if you spend $2000 on a set, expecting decent quality should be a given.
Make it better!
post #108 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Imo, if you spend $2000 on a set, expecting decent quality should be a given.
Make it better!

I agree, i found i was happier with a cheaper lcd than a high end expensive one with the same amount of flashlights. When going cheap you tend not to be so critical of everything.
post #109 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Ever hopeful, I went out and purchased a 40W4100. While picture quality was exceptional, the clouding/flashlighting were worse than I'd seen in previous sets.
It was just very distracting and unacceptable.

Now will come the A/V know-it-alls who will say a certain amount of this is to be expected.
Why? Is it really difficult to manufacture a panel that's not defective?
I'm constantly amazed that there are people that see this as no big deal. Imo, if you spend $2000 on a set, expecting decent quality should be a given.
Make it better!

you're not gonna convince anyone here unless you have some pics to back it up. it seems every post you've made, it's you complaining about the clouds/flashlights with xbr4, v4100 and now the W4100, it's like you're on a crusade to bash every Sony tv ever made and make it known that ONLY sony tvs have this flaw. clouds and flashlights are the norm on most LCDs--just look at the 650 thread where many have issues with clouding and flashlights and they actuallly have pics to prove it!--if you can't stand em, why not buy a plasma and be done with it?
post #110 of 2871
Also where did you find the 40 inch set out at? As far as I know it has not been released yet, Sears still has it 2 weeks away and my local Sony Style store does not have it yet.
post #111 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Ever hopeful, I went out and purchased a 40W4100. While picture quality was exceptional, the clouding/flashlighting were worse than I'd seen in previous sets.
It was just very distracting and unacceptable.

Now will come the A/V know-it-alls who will say a certain amount of this is to be expected.
Why? Is it really difficult to manufacture a panel that's not defective?
I'm constantly amazed that there are people that see this as no big deal. Imo, if you spend $2000 on a set, expecting decent quality should be a given.
Make it better!

dude its an lcd problem its NOT just sony's also samsung have this also any other lcd.dont only attack to sony
post #112 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Ever hopeful, I went out and purchased a 40W4100. While picture quality was exceptional, the clouding/flashlighting were worse than I'd seen in previous sets.
It was just very distracting and unacceptable.

Now will come the A/V know-it-alls who will say a certain amount of this is to be expected.
Why? Is it really difficult to manufacture a panel that's not defective?
I'm constantly amazed that there are people that see this as no big deal. Imo, if you spend $2000 on a set, expecting decent quality should be a given.
Make it better!

Didn't you say you also purchased a V4100 in the V4100 thread? And you also said that had the worst clouding/flashlighting as well. You also vowed to go back to the plasma forum, indicating you had given up on finding a quality non-defective LCD set.

Why would you buy a V4100, say it was terrible, then go out and buy a W4100? I'm not sure I even believe you to be honest? And you also previously bought an XBR4 with the same issues?

Do you have some sort of agenda? Your behavior is just weird. Go buy a plasma and be done with it. Please stop buying Sonys then complaning you got another "defective one". Just buy something else.
post #113 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatsay View Post

Like you said, lack of a 10-bit panel doesn't have to mean any noticeable reduction in picture quality.

If a tree falls in a forest..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Stewart View Post

Ever hopeful, I went out and purchased a 40W4100. While picture quality was exceptional, the clouding/flashlighting were worse than I'd seen in previous sets.
It was just very distracting and unacceptable.!

Are you able to post any pictures?
post #114 of 2871
He may be even not have the tv and just making poor comments at all lol
post #115 of 2871
Yeah, who knows? Maybe he's a fanboy for another brand, and doesn't know how to judge.
I'm glad I'm not one of those myself, I just call things down the middle, and know what the top-tier brands are.
post #116 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

you're not gonna convince anyone here unless you have some pics to back it up. it seems every post you've made, it's you complaining about the clouds/flashlights with xbr4, v4100 and now the W4100, it's like you're on a crusade to bash every Sony tv ever made and make it known that ONLY sony tvs have this flaw. clouds and flashlights are the norm on most LCDs--just look at the 650 thread where many have issues with clouding and flashlights and they actuallly have pics to prove it!--if you can't stand em, why not buy a plasma and be done with it?

Huh, interesting...you have me complaining about XBR4's...never owned one. Care to produce the post? I absolutely complained about the V4100. The V and W both had horrible clouding. The unit is already removed from the pedestal and re-boxed. If it would make you happy, I could take a picture of the box for you.
Admittedly I'm picky, and believe we, as consumers, shouldn't have to put up with sub-par quality. It seems you prefer the hide your head in the sand way of doing things.
post #117 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hargert View Post

Also where did you find the 40 inch set out at? As far as I know it has not been released yet, Sears still has it 2 weeks away and my local Sony Style store does not have it yet.

BB in Burbank, Ca. got in two of these. Though, it's not even on their web site yet, the Magnolia guy saw them come in 2 days ago.
post #118 of 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Yeah, who knows? Maybe he's a fanboy for another brand, and doesn't know how to judge.
I'm glad I'm not one of those myself, I just call things down the middle, and know what the top-tier brands are.

Nope, not a fanboy. I've been equally as critical of Samsung.
I'd like to find a TV that's been manufactured to at least some degree of quality. That's where I'm coming from. If anyone thinks it's just me bashing, have at the new line of Sony's. I wish you well. While I was critical of last years line, I'd hoped they'd gotten better. Nope, still cutting costs at the expense of the consumer, apparently.
post #119 of 2871
Yeah, didn't mean to leak that into the open, sorry... That was between me and ChrisGeo.

Although I do agree, on some part, that Sony has been cutting corners to get to that competitive price tag.
However, they still do try to offer the same quality that you come to expect from their TVs in the past.
post #120 of 2871
Thread Starter 
Checked out a 52W4100 in person today at a Sony Style store in Woodlands, Texas. Lucky enough to had a XBR4 next to it. Really liked the looks of the 4100. The 4100 sure handles motion better and had better blacks than the XBR4 but that is about it. Remote control on the 4100 is not back-lite & looked very plain/cheap. The picture just looked brighter & had better colors on the XBR then the 4100. The Sony Style salesman could not explain the difference in picture qaulity. Seemed clueless as to the 4100 having an 8 bit panel. They were selling for list price with a $200 gift card. At that price, I decided to wait until more sets get in consumer hands before making my purchase. Hopefully the poorer picture was a fluke & not because of the 8 bit panel vs. the 10 bit panel. (Please note, I said poorer as in worse then the XBR, not poor!)
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