or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayja View Post

me too please...

Likewise on the PM front, would like to get an eyeball figure on what these (5020) will street for.
post #122 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

A cable card slot allows you to receive the cable signal without a box. They are reputed to create a much better picture because you've eliminated one thing between the signal and the picture. Some think the fact that they have had spotty support from cable companies and technical problems make them not worth it. The 8th generation had them. The 9th will not. Apparently, that was a last minute decision. Many companies have dropped them in the last year or two.

For 8th generation buzz, see that thread. Maybe they all buzz and only some hear it. Maybe most don't buzz.

Good luck with your decision.


Vashti, slbosse,
with an integrated cable card would that mean it would have dvr capability as well?

So I guess the choice for me would be 5020 (aint ruling the 6020 out yet) or get a good deal on a 6010. If I got the 6010 from invision and it buzzed , would it be a problem in returning it? hmmmm. So, so many questions...
post #123 of 7982
Are the bezel widths on the 9G Kuro and Elites the same as last years models or narrower?
post #124 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledhead1 View Post

Any forum sponsors interested in selling to a Canadian? PM me with pricing Please.

I would be very careful about ordering from the states Sled. My brother and I order a Onkyo 805 AVR a month ago, and just last night the amp circuit protection kicked in (which automatically shuts off the amp every time you turn it on). Now we have to pay to get it fixed since we're no longer in the country of pruchase, even though we bought it from an authorized dealer.

Do some research on Pio's warranty before you commit.

-Coggs
post #125 of 7982
3.7inch and 2.3inch!? That sure took me by surprise!!

Two questions:

(1) Do the plasmas still have fans?
(2) Can we directly mount them to the wall back to back. Or does there need to be some space between the back of the plasma and the wall (for breathing)?

Thanks!
post #126 of 7982
Would really like to find out the height and width dimensions with the side speakers attached for the 60" Elite. Building a new house to be completed in August and they are getting ready to start building the furniture that will house the family room TV where I will be putting this.

Also, am I to understand Pioneer does not allow the Elite line to be sold online? If so does that preclude any forum sponsors from selling the Elites? Do these need to be purchased locally?

Thanks for any info !!
post #127 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPeeT View Post


Display THAT LCD!

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen.

What's the point of these pictures? They don't even show the differences between the 8G and the 9G too well (the 8G's picture looks different in my home and the two screens' black levels seem damn near identical in these pictures). And the single shots like the one above are useless, as their black levels and brightness depends on the camera and its settings as well as the display used to view them in the end.
post #128 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyo6JM View Post

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen.

What's the point of these pictures? They don't even show the differences between the 8G and the 9G too well (the 8G's picture looks different in my home and the two screens' black levels seem damn near identical in these pictures). And the single shots like the one above are useless, as their black levels and brightness depends on the camera and its settings as well as the display used to view them in the end.

The point in the shots with the 6 displays is to show relative black levels, not absolute. Anything else is utterly pointless though, as are the properly exposed photos. (where most screens look black)
post #129 of 7982
Hello all!!

This is my first post and I stumbled onto this forum tonight when I entered a search for PRO-111FD. I have been waiting for the 9G release to make the jump to a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I just got a flyer in the mail from Showcase Entertainment here in Phoenix stating they were taking pre-orders on 151's and 111's. I am still debating between the 50 and the 60 but in reading this post I noticed the comment about "Chicken Legs" (????) when you remove the speakers. I do not like the wide look with the speakers on so are you saying they don't come off and leave a clean bezel behind?? Does anyone have pics??

Thanks,

Bryan
post #130 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swatdude1 View Post

Hello all!!

This is my first post and I stumbled onto this forum tonight when I entered a search for PRO-111FD. I have been waiting for the 9G release to make the jump to a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I just got a flyer in the mail from Showcase Entertainment here in Phoenix stating they were taking pre-orders on 151's and 111's. I am still debating between the 50 and the 60 but in reading this post I noticed the comment about "Chicken Legs" (????) when you remove the speakers. I do not like the wide look with the speakers on so are you saying they don't come off and leave a clean bezel behind?? Does anyone have pics??

Thanks,

Bryan

The 'chicken legs' thing only applies to the Non-elites, where the speakers are on the bottom. Removing the speakers on the elite won't change the look of the bottom bezel. So you are fine.

If you get a non-elite, there is no point in removing the speaker unless you wish to wall mount. Removing it exposes all the wiring where there is a gap between the stand and the bezel. Besides, I believe the bottom speaker looks quite attractive, so even if you don't use it, you can just leave it there.

I agree that you may as well remove them on the elites (if you have an external sound system) whether you mount it or not.
post #131 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyo6JM View Post

Er... that looks just fine on my PC's LCD screen.

What's the point of these pictures?

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.
post #132 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

There's already an annoying blue LED for that. Hopefully this year you'll have the option to turn it off rather than dimming it, or I'll have to get the Blu-Tack out. It's funny that with them having such emphasis on black that they have a bright blue LED on when the display is powered up.


It looks like there is really only an improvement in on/off contrast ratio, rather than ANSI. With mixed-contrast scenes, there is virtually no change with the 8/9G displays, but with low-contrast images it's more visible:



I must say, it is a bit disappointing though, I was hoping for a bigger difference in black levels compared to last year. I was all set to go for the best 60ʺ model, but now I'm not so sure.

I wish Engadget had left the EXIF information embedded in the photos.

I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left.

ANSI on the 8Gs were in the 3K range. ANSI on the 9Gs are in the 8K range. Now will you be able to really see these numbers in bright intrascene scenarios? Probably, probably not. However, the differences in the numbers are significant.
post #133 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

D-Nice has already stated previously that the main difference is on/off contrast improvements rather than ANSI.

Not exactly. I said the ANSI will not be as dramatic (5x) compared to the on/off. Around 2.5x better ANSI is impressive.
post #134 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiguy3 View Post

What is the Signature Line? Is it suppose to be better than Elite?

Think of the Elite Signature series as a Sony Qualia. Think of the regular Elites as the Sony ES series.
post #135 of 7982
Two big surprises: No cablecard....and HMG migrates down to the non-Elite series.

I may be one of a few, but I've previously chosen the Elite's for their home networking capability for the video playback ability over the network. Now for me I don't (yet) see a diffrentiator between the two set types (except for calibration....which I've honestly never gotten around to hiring someone for).

The cablecard thing is shocking. I've got cablecards in both my 7g&8g units & although I would welcome tru2way cable for the rare time I might want to use VOD, I can't imagine having to go with a STB. Notwithstanding cable's lukewarm support of cablecard, it is clear 'to me' that the pq is much improved with cc allowing the TV to do whatever decompression needs to be done to display a signal...rather than have the STB perform the function. And that doesn't even address the footprint issue....why have a 3.7" depth tv, if I have to put a 10" STB underneath it??????

This may sound rash, but net/net, I think I'll be bi-passing the 9Gs this year. That's a shame too...I was looking forward to enjoying the 'ultimate' version of Pio's TV's prior to the move to Panny's glass and the uncertainty involved.

....just one guy's thoughts......
post #136 of 7982
ditto on the pming me with street prices.. I want to get one no later than by the end of july.. interesting to find out what street prices will be to see if i go with a 5020 or a 5010
post #137 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

He is our Pioneer Whisperer.

Love this!
post #138 of 7982
What about QAM tuning?
post #139 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

What about QAM tuning?

QAM is manditory, so it's in there.
post #140 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.

I know what you mean. But I think I can explain the phenomenon of darker blacks when they are part of a picture and lighter Greyish blacks on the black bars or when the screen is not showing an image. I see the same thing on my Panny Plasma. What I realized is that it was just my perception.

When you stare at a black screen in a darkened room, or you are staring directly at the blacks bars above and below an image in a completely darkened room..........Your eyes are comparing the black your panel can produce to pure black (the blackness of the room and the bezel). Therefor the blacks your panel can produce are exposed for what they are...not black at all but an approximation therein. Usually a dark glowing grey is a better description.

However when you stare at blacks in an image they are next to lighter colors...namely white. This creates an illusion to the human eye due to the relative darkness that your TV can create next to the whiteness it can create.

So all that is important is the illusion to the viewer in theri living room. If you see black when you watch your LCD...great....thats all that matters. But if you ever want to see what your TV really produces, just turn the lights off and stare at a "black" screen.

A Tv that can produce deeper and darker blacks will have a much richer picture with considerably more depth. Black level is considered the most important aspect to PQ. So while I encourage you to enjoy your LCD, I would also encourage you to not delude yourself into thinking that a properly set up Kuro in a darkened envirnment won't look noticeably better than your TV.............and my TV as well!
post #141 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.

Wow the resident LCD fanboi bashing a plasma, color me suprised.
post #142 of 7982
So can anyone confirm if I can have an Elite 111 in my house by mid or late July???
post #143 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

During what time of day? Lighting conditions?

Quote:


2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

The haze and poor blacks are viewable during all content per my eyes. You don't see it....good for you.

Quote:


My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.

Once you respond to your first question, I can answer this comment.
post #144 of 7982
Looks promising, but I will wait for independent reports that are not from a Pioneer booth setup.
post #145 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by terminatorbob View Post

This is really going to be a tough decision for me. Save money with the 58" 800U panny or splurge and get the wicked Pioneer 60".

I am in this exact same boat. But I think I may wait until the 60" Pioneer 9Gs come out as well as the new Panny 58" before making a decision. I'd like to read a few reviews of both before buying. This is going to be a tv I have to keep for loooooong time and I want to get it right. I earn a modest income and can't blow too much every 4 or 5 years on a tv. I would like to know whatever I buy will be working for about 10 years for me.
post #146 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left.

ANSI on the 8Gs were in the 3K range. ANSI on the 9Gs are in the 8K range. Now will you be able to really see these numbers in bright intrascene scenarios? Probably, probably not. However, the differences in the numbers are significant.

I've just re-profiled my monitor and you're right, it is more dramatic than I had initially seen. I didn't realise it had been a while since I last calibrated this, and it had drifted quite a bit.

With mixed contrast images, there still doesn't appear to be a massive improvement: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pione...nds-on/793959/ but it was mostly dark low-contrast images that the 8G struggled with anyway.

As I now need a new display, I think I will end up getting one of these, despite the other plasma issues. I would prefer to keep waiting for the 10/11G Pioneers when they finally get true' blacks, but it's not an option any more.

I presume that, just like last year, the 60ʺ model will have worse black levels than the 50ʺ sets. Do you happen to know how they'll compare? I'm tempted to go for the 60ʺ but not if there's a big difference. (you know how picky I am when it comes to things like this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post

Looks promising, but I will wait for independent reports that are not from a Pioneer booth setup.

Regardless of how it compares to the other displays, their comparison to the 8G will be a proper' one, so that should at least give some of us an idea of how much darker the blacks are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

If you are viewing in a bright room with the lights on, then you can get the appearance of black out of an LCD, especially with medium to high-contrast images.

In a dark home-theatre environment with a properly calibrated display, an LCD will only appear to produce black with bright high-contrast images. With anything else, the black levels start to fall apart.

The 8G Kuros fared reasonably well with high and medium-contrast images in a dark environment, but they still looked grey with dark images.

Hopefully the 9G Kuros will look black in all but the darkest images. At the very least, they should hopefully be able to produce black levels at least on-par with, if not better than most CRTs when calibrated for shadow detail. The majority of CRTs out there can only show great blacks when sacrificing shadow detail, the Kuros show great shadow detail even at their darkest setting. The Trinitron I'm using temporarily right now has rather poor black levels when set so that it doesn't crush shadow details - even an 8G would probably be better than it, and certainly the 9G will.

These so-called void' blacks that you speak of appear in many types of programme content - horror films for example.
post #147 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc6035 View Post

Two big surprises: No cablecard....and HMG migrates down to the non-Elite series.

I may be one of a few, but I've previously chosen the Elite's for their home networking capability for the video playback ability over the network. Now for me I don't (yet) see a diffrentiator between the two set types (except for calibration....which I've honestly never gotten around to hiring someone for).

The cablecard thing is shocking. I've got cablecards in both my 7g&8g units & although I would welcome tru2way cable for the rare time I might want to use VOD, I can't imagine having to go with a STB. Notwithstanding cable's lukewarm support of cablecard, it is clear 'to me' that the pq is much improved with cc allowing the TV to do whatever decompression needs to be done to display a signal...rather than have the STB perform the function. And that doesn't even address the footprint issue....why have a 3.7" depth tv, if I have to put a 10" STB underneath it??????

This may sound rash, but net/net, I think I'll be bi-passing the 9Gs this year. That's a shame too...I was looking forward to enjoying the 'ultimate' version of Pio's TV's prior to the move to Panny's glass and the uncertainty involved.

....just one guy's thoughts......


Yes Im surprised about the no cablecard too. This is not a deal breaker but Im still glad I have my 5010. I have used cablecards on my past 3 TVs. Sony 36XS955, 34XBR960 and the 5010. They work very well and are a lot more convenient then the cable box. No cablecard will probably cut production cost down too so they can sell it for less.

Also things are uncertain with the cable companies and cablecards. Im waiting for Verizon Fios which will support cablecards.
post #148 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

BB should have then by week 3 of June.

Buzzing??? What Buzz New power supplies in the 9Gs.

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?

More than one person has had power supplies replaced with no improvement in the buzz for 8Gs.

I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.
post #149 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?

More than one person has had power supplies replaced with no improvement in the buzz for 8Gs.

I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.

Could fix it it they are using a completely new redesigned power supply.
post #150 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSony View Post

Are the bezel widths on the 9G Kuro and Elites the same as last years models or narrower?

are they matte finish now? (I hope)


bob
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread