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The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

I believe it was intended as sarcasm!

I've seen that Samsung next to a Kuro on five different occasions and the friggin LCD has never looked as depicted in those photo's - NEVER! The Samsung in fact was superior vs. the demo running the same Kuro Demo Feed while Kuro was DIM --- So much for OBJECTIVITY.

Best blacks are important but it's not the whole ball of wax - absolute black crush is not a good thing either - please do demo shadow detail samples rather than simply DEEP BLACK CRUSH. How about posting pic's of Shadow Details? I'm not a fan of Panny PDP but when I look at those pic's there are some where the Panny shadow details look better than the Kuro. I've yet to witness a single flat panel match the shadow details of an SXRD with it's IRIS which has now become a piece of AV history.

Hopefully this five times better can deliver in this arena rather than just deep black that has no definition to it - it's the details that = the WoW IMO!

Sidenote to D-Nice:

Since you have become the Guru here and possess advance knowledge please answer this.

Having been an owner of both technologies and own four LCD's over the past 3.5 yrs with zero issues and admittedly inferior blacks on my 57" as discussed on this forum constantly let me ask you this. My perception of my 57" Sharp is that I have two different types of blacks that I never see discussed on this forum.

1. Content Displayed BLACKS - Which are close to perfect BTB and black enough to match any bezel. Blacks within that are from black source are simply damn black.

2. Then I have what I call VOID Blacks where there is no source material content or when the screen goes VOID and you see a Haze gray/black during credits and who the hell gets excited about credits? Everyone seems to discuss this BLACK or lack thereof as if LCD has no Blacks which is B.S..

My point is that PDP fans always want to discuss number two above and in denial of number one as if us LCD owners are waiting for our Lions Club sponsorship and a Leader Dog to buy our TV's - were it truly as bad as number two is constantly discussed would they truly be able to dominate on a world market? My point is no one ever discusses these differences and IMO and experience LCD's have two different types of black being displayed and other strengths are present that can give LCD a big advantage over PDP based upon static viewing conditions that destroys a PDP - The Mighty Kuro cannot overcome a Sun filled room the way an LCD can. Thanks for listening.


Westa,

A lot of those displays actually deliver darker blacks than what is actually pictured. I take some of these photos with a grain of salt.

I must also say that there's just as much bias in the LCD forums and unfortunately many people who visit AVS are biased and their viewpoints focus on their own viewing habits. I mean no harm in this statement, but you can be very biased as well. You've made your feelings well known about the Panasonic PDPs regarding their white levels and screen glare and when you've shared your feelings you're straight forward and blunt.

The Pioneer Kuro's black levels aren't extraordinary in a room with lighting. From the comments I recall you posting most of your viewings have been in environments where there is ambient light. LCDs hold their own in black levels when there is a decent amount of light in the room. However, as environment lighting decreases so does black levels on LCDs. Kuro's show their strengths in dimmer lighting conditions. Other that Samsungs 71/650LCDs, EVERY LCD I've seen has a blueish tint to the black levels. I can see inadequate black levels on the Sony XBRs in Sony's own Sony store in the showroom. My Kuro's black levels look almost pure black in that type of environment. Yeah, you may not want to see yourself shaving in plasma during the daytime, however many of us DETEST blueish black levels and we see it LONG before the credits roll on the screen.

As far as the black crush comment goes I do agree with you. There is some black crush going on with the Kuro. If I can see the details on my SXRD and it's not there on the Kuro, then yes there is some black crush. The SXRD still rules in that area (but that's the only area it does).

And I also agree with you about the dimness of the Kuros. Although they are much better in home than in the stores. One thing for you to realize is that many here in the plasma forums tone down the picture to the extent that they are setup much more toned down that what you even see setup in the stores. So to them there's no brightness issue. I don't agree, but as the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
post #152 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

This is more important and I think many of us would like to know. I guess
we're more interested in the improvements over the 8G as the 8G was awesome
already.

I hope this question doesn't get overlooked. The stuttering does take from the experience.
post #153 of 7982
It looks like I've found a replacement for my old 47" Panasonic RPTV. Were there many problems with the initial models last year (vs. later production)? I don't recall seeing threads about it but I wanted to be sure. I'm anxious to get my hands on one of these, already got a new receiver (Onkyo) and speaker system (SVS).
post #154 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

I've just re-profiled my monitor and you're right, it is more dramatic than I had initially seen. I didn't realise it had been a while since I last calibrated this, and it had drifted quite a bit.



Quote:


With mixed contrast images, there still doesn't appear to be a massive improvement: http://www.engadget.com/photos/pione...nds-on/793959/ but it was mostly dark low-contrast images that the 8G struggled with anyway.

I agree. Low APL scenes are going to benefit most from the lower minimum luminance levels

Quote:


I presume that, just like last year, the 60ʺ model will have worse black levels than the 50ʺ sets. Do you happen to know how they'll compare? I'm tempted to go for the 60ʺ but not if there's a big difference. (you know how picky I am when it comes to things like this)

Per the numbers, the 50" will be slightly better. You won't be able to see the difference....even side-by-side
post #155 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm not exactly sure how these pictures look on your screen but on mine, the 9G vs 8G is just as dramatic as the 8G vs the Panny at the bottom left...

Some of the earlier pics looked much more dramatic than some of these. Some of these seem to be the big difference as expected. However, Robert and others have stated that there is as big of a difference in the 9G over the 8G than there was with the 8G over the 7G. I think I'll take their word over the pics for now.
post #156 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

Do you really believe that the power supply was the source of the directional buzz from the front panel?

No. There were two reported types of buzz. One from the power supply and the other from the glass itself.

Quote:


I was told that a change in the firing sequence could be a solution for the buzz but at the possible expense of degradation in the picture.

But I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that the firing sequence was NOT changed in the 9Gs.

The firing sequence has not be changed in a way to resolve the panel buzz.
post #157 of 7982
Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.
post #158 of 7982
Do the 9Gs have the bezel design as the 8G? I see that the depth has changed but what about the width of the top and side bezel?
post #159 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquetreatone View Post

Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.


I think Robert at V.E. can help you.
post #160 of 7982
Westa....you keep repeating the misinformation about black crush and lack of shadow detail with Kuro's makes you seem very uneducated.
Please tell me one attribute about a Samsung that makes it better than a Kuro, even playing a Kuro demo besides uneeded brightness?

I owned a 60A3000 SXRD and it was not better than the Kuro in any aspect. Including shadow detail.
post #161 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uniquetreatone View Post

Noob question.Are there any sponsors on this site that are located in N.Y.? Iwas just about to pull the trigger on the 150 next month but now I might as well get the 151.Thanks in advance.

Robert at Value Electronics would be my number one choice.
post #162 of 7982
His site is confusing since there is no search feature and the page only shows LCD's.
post #163 of 7982
just call, easier that way.
post #164 of 7982
Thankyou i'll look into it.
post #165 of 7982
Another vote for Robert for a NY sponsor. They're fabulous to deal with.
post #166 of 7982
Quote:


Regardless of how it compares to the other displays, their comparison to the 8G will be a proper' one, so that should at least give some of us an idea of how much darker the blacks are.

Only those of us with properly calibrated screens, it seems. This just underlines what I was saying - these kinds of pictures (in "normal" settings) aren't nearly as informative and reliable as a direct, personal comparison of the screens would be.
post #167 of 7982
Click to see a link that divulges the Swedish prices of the 9G's............I can afford one.....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

But also there is a side by side comparison between a Panny pz700, 8G Pio,
9G Pio, Samsung LCD, and a Sony LCD.

The only issue I have is that I have a Panny 700u, and these pics show black levels that I can assure you that the set CANNOT reproduce. That throws into question the accuracy of the picture.....but then again its pictures on the internet.
post #168 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Click to see a link that divulges the Swedish prices of the 9G's............I can afford one.....Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

Danish
post #169 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by enator View Post

Danish

Won't it be close though? I mean the price is in kr. If not what would the difference be?
post #170 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Won't it be close though? I mean the price is in kr. If not what would the difference be?

The prices I gave you before + 2000 sek (of course in Denmark)
post #171 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by enator View Post

The prices I gave you before + 2000 sek

Ok, well I can still afford it. So that is great! What does that mean that the 5090H models will have Satellite tuners in them? Is their free TV over satellite in Sweden?
post #172 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Ok, well I can still afford it. So that is great! What does that mean that the 5090H models will have Satellite tuners in them? Is their free TV over satellite in Sweden?

Nope you have to pay. (more q just send a PM)
post #173 of 7982
Noob question - does it matter if one orders an Elite locally or not? From what I've seen, it doesn't appear they can be ordered online so I wasn't sure about over the phone across state lines (could be some Pioneer Law for all I know, they seem to be particular with who sells where).
post #174 of 7982
The SN#'s are tracked so as long as you buy from auth dealer/distributor (or your dealers buys from auth distributor) as stated in Pioneers warranty you will have a warranty for 2 years in home for Elite models. You just have to research your dealers reviews.
post #175 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Some of the earlier pics looked much more dramatic than some of these. Some of these seem to be the big difference as expected. However, Robert and others have stated that there is as big of a difference in the 9G over the 8G than there was with the 8G over the 7G. I think I'll take their word over the pics for now.

I totally agree with your larger post above xb re lcds - good explanation. Another thing that gets overlooked is that better black levels result in better color saturation in ALL scenes. That, to me, is the primary advantage of the Kuros balck level emphasis. The first time I saw a 4280 next to a Panny 700, the scenes being displayed were bright (it was the animated musical machine scene in a BB demo loop) but the color levels on the Kuro were richer (even after setting both up properly).

To be fair to Robert, he didn't say the difference between 8G and 9G was the same as 7G to 8G. Rather, he said it was noticeable but not as significant as the prior jump.
post #176 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

The SN#'s are tracked so as long as you buy from auth dealer/distributor (or your dealers buys from auth distributor) as stated in Pioneers warranty you will have a warranty for 2 years in home for Elite models. You just have to research your dealers reviews.

Thanks for the info! I've read good things about BuyBestPlasma, ****************, and Invision, so I guess it'll come down to pricing and availability.

Do most people here buy the extended warranty from the dealer too or separately (if so, where)? Is it much of a hassle to buy it separately?
post #177 of 7982
I would do the research about warranties there is allot of info here on the forum, dont want to go off topic in this thread.
post #178 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ercc View Post

The 'chicken legs' thing only applies to the Non-elites, where the speakers are on the bottom. Removing the speakers on the elite won't change the look of the bottom bezel. So you are fine.

If you get a non-elite, there is no point in removing the speaker unless you wish to wall mount. Removing it exposes all the wiring where there is a gap between the stand and the bezel. Besides, I believe the bottom speaker looks quite attractive, so even if you don't use it, you can just leave it there.

I agree that you may as well remove them on the elites (if you have an external sound system) whether you mount it or not.

I plan to get the 6010 or the 6020. I will be wall mounting the tv. I will be removing the speaker because I will be running the sound through a 5.1 system. What do you mean when you say the wiring will be exposed? What does "chicken legs" mean?
post #179 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

I owned a 60A3000 SXRD and it was not better than the Kuro in any aspect. Including shadow detail.

I owned a 70" SXRD. It did have a nice picture, but paled in comparison to the detail my 150FD has.
post #180 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCJack View Post

I plan to get the 6010 or the 6020. I will be wall mounting the tv. I will be removing the speaker because I will be running the sound through a 5.1 system. What do you mean when you say the wiring will be exposed? What does "chicken legs" mean?

When you remove the speaker on the bottom of the panel, it exposes the skinny legs where the stand is connected to the TV. You can see underneath the TV and you'll be able to see your wiring. If you're wall mounting the TV, then it doesn't matter.
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