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The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I shouldn't have to have a professional calibration "bring out" missing details. I know some of you guys are pros and know what you are doing in the SM, but not all of us do. So when you guys post such information as you do you need to keep in mind that most of us tweak our TVs through the User Menu. My Kuro is a 6010 not an Elite. How much detail an Elite can bring out over a non-elite I cannot say, but the 6010 doesn't show more detail than my SXRD. If you have suggestions please advise as to what I can do via the user menu has it's limitations.

Dude plain and simple, turn off DRE, turn off Black level enhancer, set gamma to 3, and dont lower brightness lower then -1. Take two of these and call me in the morning.
post #242 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPeeT View Post

cybertec, you seriously need to buy a 9g. This forum will need an "Official Pioneer Kuro Pictures Thread PT. 2" and you're just the man for the job.

May you be the first one to donate to my new Kuro fund
post #243 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapeAV View Post

HOW ABOUT SOME REAL SPECS?

even Tweeter etc. has them.

example: 151FD weighs 122 lbs.

I think we've learned not to trust Tweeter 'specs'. If they can't get the MSRP right, what are the odds they'll get the fine points correct?
post #244 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

I'm not one bit surprised about the lack of CableCARD. With SDV being deployed around the country, any CableCARD feature on a non-tru2way TV could be a useless feature.

So far only, Samsung, LG and Panasonic have announced tru2way TVs and even those won't be out until the fall and who knows when they'll actually be supported by the cable co. So far the FCC has not set a deadline that the cable co's have to support them.

As much as I'd love to have a Kuro with tru2way, it looks like we'll have to wait at least another year. As for tru2way in general, we should know alot more next week during the Cable Show as there are lots of tru2way sessions scheduled.

If one was to have FIOS and a 9G, would the cable card reduce the compression or is FIOS so big that Verizon does not have to compress the HD channels, so a Cable Card would provide no benefit in terms of a better picture for FIOS users?
post #245 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by giper View Post

If one was to have FIOS and a 9G, would the cable card reduce the compression or is FIOS so big that Verizon does not have to compress the HD channels, so a Cable Card would provide no benefit in terms of a better picture for FIOS users?

Verizon FIOS uses compression just like every other HDTV provider, they just don't use AS much.

It would take FAR more bandwidth than even Verizon can offer to transmit uncompressed HD.
post #246 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPeeT View Post

Verizon FIOS uses compression just like every other HDTV provider, they just don't use AS much.

It would take FAR more bandwidth than even Verizon can offer to transmit uncompressed HD.

Not quite. While they do compress SD they don't compress HD. The HD is compressed at the source, i.e. the cable channel or broadcaster. FiOS does not add any compression to the signal they receive.
post #247 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

if your Kuro had the same minimum luminance levels as your SXRD, the black details would be identical.

That's not quite right. Peak brightness to black level only does contrast ratio. Black details (shadow detail) is dependent on many factors:

1) Gamma setting, if his tweaked to liking by eye SXRD has an ~2.2 gamma or lower, possibly 2.0 even, but your calibrated Kuro has 2.4 - 2.5, matching:

Display gamma 2.5 / Camera gamma 2.2 = system gamma ~1.14 ( This is what the director sees on his screening room)

Then his black details will be more but show a higher black level at the expense of haze.

2) If his SXRD has a gamma bump, an S shaped gamma curve ( below 20 IRE gamma is ~2.0 or even lower, while above 20 IRE is 2.2+ gamma), etc, his SXRD can be made to show more shadow detail, even though his black level is more. Again at the cost of haze, with the added bonus of the bumped area below 20 IRE having screwed up colors compared to the regular gamma of 2.2.

3) If the SXRD has a cooler color temperature, like it's not unheard of that the low IREs under 20 can go way over 12,000K+ color temperature, that will increase shadow detail over the Kuro properly calibrated to 6500K.

That's not to mean the SXRD will look better overall, but if the point is:
"My uncalibrated SXRD has better black details than a calibrated Kuro," he is 100% correct, he can on his own with Sony preset options (not even as extreme as Dynamic mode), make his SXRD have so much black detail, beyond what is supposed to be seen even. But, his colors will be wrong, his gamma will be all over the place, it will look an ungodly ugly mess, and so hideous in all aspects as to make me puke. The average Joe-six-pack doesn't care about that, just "haw, I told you I can see more stuff in the dark scenes."
post #248 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

gwhzz35 First congrats that you can actually find a 150! They are great. Depends on your investment price. You dont have to tell me as thats against the rules but the 151 should be the same or cheaper, so why not wait? But if you dont want to wait as beginning supplies will be slim then go for it.


Thanks Roman...well in my case the 151 is quite more than the 150.
I would be considering the 6020. I just wonder if it will be that much more better as the 6020 is not Elite, but obviously the 150 is...hmm.
I'm also a bit leery about the first batch of 9Gs going out...well you know that goes with first batches at times.
post #249 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Really? Tweeter? They could even get the 151FD MSRP correct.

We'll see....price in their comp. still hasn't changed......

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No thank you. When my contact says I can post additional info, I will

Eagerly waiting!
post #250 of 7982
gwhzz, I'm guessing that if the 151 is much more than the 150, you're comparing 150 street price with 151 MSRP. Am I right? Why not find out what the sponsors carry the 151 for. If last year is any guide, you may be in for a very pleasant surprise.
post #251 of 7982
hmm..good point Vashti...lemme find out...the bad thing is the 'real' price
for the 9Gs are really not confirmed.
post #252 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ylnad123 View Post

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the network on the elite and the network features on the non elite

Can somebody of pros answer that question. It looks like having DLNA complaint TV is a real advantage these days if you want to stream video from your computer or cell phone. Thanks,
Vlad
post #253 of 7982
The dealers should know within the next couple of weeks what they're initial prices will be.
post #254 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Value Electroincs
BuyBestPlasma
Axxis Audio


Any of these three offer 12 months interest free financing with approved credit?
post #255 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by slavyan View Post

Can somebody of pros answer that question. It looks like having DLNA complaint TV is a real advantage these days if you want to stream video from your computer or cell phone. Thanks,
Vlad

I agree, this is the single most important new feature besides PQ.

The signature series has an external media box, I would like to have more details about this box. Or will the other models have compliance.

Dnice, you have been very quiet about these features and I know you believe that downloads are an impending tech. I am hoping you are reserving comment for a significant reason, i.e. something special here.

Paul
post #256 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coukos34 View Post

We'll see....price in their comp. still hasn't changed......

That's a Tweeter problem. The MSRP is 6500 for thr 151FD not 5999.
post #257 of 7982
D-NICE,
Does this year's Kuro Elites have the same glossy piano finish on the bezels (I LOVE the look of the PRO-110FD... is it the same design?) I was very impressed with the look of the PRO-110FD and I am hoping this year's will be the exact same design.
Also--- is the remote nicer? I hope they didn't cheap out on the remote like so many companies today (hopefully it's still a big remote with lots of cool features).
Please let me know. Thanks D-NICE.
post #258 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

That's not quite right. Peak brightness to black level only does contrast ratio. Black details (shadow detail) is dependent on many factors:

1) Gamma setting, if his tweaked to liking by eye SXRD has an ~2.2 gamma or lower, possibly 2.0 even, but your calibrated Kuro has 2.4 - 2.5, matching:

Display gamma 2.5 / Camera gamma 2.2 = system gamma ~1.14 ( This is what the director sees on his screening room)

Then his black details will be more but show a higher black level at the expense of haze.

2) If his SXRD has a gamma bump, an S shaped gamma curve ( below 20 IRE gamma is ~2.0 or even lower, while above 20 IRE is 2.2+ gamma), etc, his SXRD can be made to show more shadow detail, even though his black level is more. Again at the cost of haze, with the added bonus of the bumped area below 20 IRE having screwed up colors compared to the regular gamma of 2.2.

3) If the SXRD has a cooler color temperature, like it's not unheard of that the low IREs under 20 can go way over 12,000K+ color temperature, that will increase shadow detail over the Kuro properly calibrated to 6500K.

That's not to mean the SXRD will look better overall, but if the point is:
"My uncalibrated SXRD has better black details than a calibrated Kuro," he is 100% correct, he can on his own with Sony preset options (not even as extreme as Dynamic mode), make his SXRD have so much black detail, beyond what is supposed to be seen even. But, his colors will be wrong, his gamma will be all over the place, it will look an ungodly ugly mess, and so hideous in all aspects as to make me puke. The average Joe-six-pack doesn't care about that, just "haw, I told you I can see more stuff in the dark scenes."

I'm well aware of gamma reio-ta. I'm also aware of a few things you left out

I tried to keep that post as simplistic as possible because...well...there are too many factors that can attribute to the lack of "shadow details".

However, the most blatant one is what I posted.....specifically from fully calibrated displays.
post #259 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony324 View Post

D-NICE,
Does this year's Kuro Elites have the same glossy piano finish on the bezels (I LOVE the look of the PRO-110FD... is it the same design?) I was very impressed with the look of the PRO-110FD and I am hoping this year's will be the exact same design.
Also--- is the remote nicer? I hope they didn't cheap out on the remote like so many companies today (hopefully it's still a big remote with lots of cool features).
Please let me know. Thanks D-NICE.

Yes and yes.
post #260 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARASITE View Post

Dude plain and simple, turn off DRE, turn off Black level enhancer, set gamma to 3, and dont lower brightness lower then -1. Take two of these and call me in the morning.

I've fluctuated between low and off on DRE, always had black enhancer off, gamma has always been set to 3, i vary my brightness from +1 to +3. Having said that, my 6010 doesn't show the same amount of details that my 60XBR1 does. I'm not going by memory either. I still have both televisions and I have good eyesight.
post #261 of 7982
Thanks D-Nice.
I noticed that there is no "USER" setting under the specs. Is there another name for this setting which allows you to manually adjust the settings?
Also, (you may have already answered this) what is the dynamic contrast ratio?
And, if it's very dark in the room, will the blacks almost blend in giving the "floating picture" effect? I know it won't be absolute black, but will it be very close to what Pioneer is trying to achive for the 10G?
Thanks for everything you do on here D-Nice
post #262 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Your 6010 shows the exact same details as your SXRD.....only darker due to the much lower minimum luminance levels.
To put it another way, if your Kuro had the same minimum luminance levels as your SXRD, the black details would be identical.

I do understand what you are saying but that's not true.

Months ago I connected my PS3 to my SXRD and watched a Spider-man 3 trailer which had a dark scene of the city. More detail in the skyline was obvious than when I watched it on my Kuro. The picture looked 10 times better on my Kuro but the SXRD obviously showed more detail and it wasn't because black levels were blacker on the Kuro. And I've noticed this on other occasions too and did more comparisons than this. I know what I'm talking about.

What SXRD model of SXRD did you compare to the Kuro?
post #263 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm well aware of gamma reio-ta. I'm also aware of a few things you left out
.

Ok cool.

I was mostly trying to make sure for people like Westa. His SXRD RPTV, no way in hell can have a better black level than any Kuro. So he must be doing something to make his TV get better black details, more than he should. If so, I can't imagine how bad his settings are if he has better shadow details with his SXRD.

I left a few things out? I can't think of anything much more that would affect shadow detail except maybe environment like reducing ambient lighting and reflections onto the display, that would make a higher black level SXRD have more shadow details. The other one is, you have to be real stupid to do this one, sending RGB/PC signals with the TV set to Video levels, and the reverse. But it's pretty hard to make that mistake, you have to pretty much screw up on purpose and send the wrong levels and set the TV to the wrong setting.

Bottom line is, like you said though, everything being equal, a lower black level will show more shadow detail. If not, Westa has horrible looking settings on his SXRD.
post #264 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I do understand what you are saying but that's not true.

Months ago I connected my PS3 to my SXRD and watched a Spider-man 3 trailer which had a dark scene of the city. More detail in the skyline was obvious than when I watched it on my Kuro. The picture looked 10 times better on my Kuro but the SXRD obviously showed more detail and it wasn't because black levels were blacker on the Kuro. And I've noticed this on other occasions too and did more comparisons than this. I know what I'm talking about.

What SXRD model of SXRD did you compare to the Kuro?

Put the two side-by-side with the same content. Turn DRE off and set your brightness on the Kuro to +1. Turn off the lights and tell me what you see
post #265 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Ok cool.

I was mostly trying to make sure for people like Westa. His SXRD RPTV, no way in hell can have a better black level than any Kuro. So he must be doing something to make his TV get better black details, more than he should. If so, I can't imagine how bad his settings are if he has better shadow details with his SXRD.

I left a few things out? I can't think of anything much more that would affect shadow detail except maybe environment like reducing ambient lighting and reflections onto the display, that would make a higher black level SXRD have more shadow details. The other one is, you have to be real stupid to do this one, sending RGB/PC signals with the TV set to Video levels, and the reverse. But it's pretty hard to make that mistake, you have to pretty much screw up on purpose and send the wrong levels and set the TV to the wrong setting.

Bottom line is, like you said though, everything being equal, a lower black level will show more shadow detail. If not, Westa has horrible looking settings on his SXRD.

Ah, the Westa Connection
post #266 of 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Ah, the Westa Connection

Yep

Dnice,

Anyway.... Will the new 9Gs finally allow a true 2.5 gamma like is used on the telecinist reference CRT monitors without crushing black? In the right environment of course. I didn't like the fact the 8Gs still were calibrated to 2.2. Since Pioneer is now working with JVC, who have their "reference" projectors, which can do 2.4 , I'm hoping the new Pioneer 9Gs will finally allow a 2.5 gamma.
post #267 of 7982
I've been trying to follow the 8g Kuro 9g kuro threads and wonder if there's anyone who could compile a list of the differences between the lines from the information released thus far? I know darker blacks/new power supply and no cablecard box but not sure about the other differences. I'm considering getting a 5020/5010 which would extremely stretch my budget and wanting to make sure I make the right decision
post #268 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Yep

Dnice,

Anyway.... Will the new 9Gs finally allow a true 2.5 gamma like is used on the telecinist reference CRT monitors without crushing black? In the right environment of course. I didn't like the fact the 8Gs still were calibrated to 2.2. Since Pioneer is now working with JVC, who have their "reference" projectors, which can do 2.4 now, I'm hoping the new Pioneers will finally allow a 2.5 gamma.

I haven't heard of any changes to the gamma options on the 9Gs.

I'll verify once I get one.
post #269 of 7982
Forgive me if this has been asked, but is the stand for the 6020FD optional or does it come with the panel?
post #270 of 7982
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jared701 View Post

I've been trying to follow the 8g Kuro 9g kuro threads and wonder if there's anyone who could compile a list of the differences between the lines from the information released thus far? I know darker blacks/new power supply and no cablecard box but not sure about the other differences. I'm considering getting a 5020/5010 which would extremely stretch my budget and wanting to make sure I make the right decision

Read the press releases.
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