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LG BH200: bug tracking thread (non-disk specific) - Page 2

post #31 of 191
5/8/08 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dring View Post

Minor nit: I suggest that you edit the start of that sentence to read "When sending uncompressed 5.1 PCM audio...". If a disc happened to contain 7.1 audio, then the observed behaviour wouldn't be a bug (unless the back 2 channels were silent in that case too -- I don't think anyone has reported that).

Excellent point. I'll make that edit now. Thanks for your input!

-C.
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post #32 of 191
5/8/08 at 6:58pm
Are you sure it's not your display device?

I'm watching 4:3 SD DVD content right now, and it's not stretched (black pillars on both side).

By default my tv was stretching, but I went into the tv menu and disabled it, and now it's displaying proper ratio.

My BH200 is set to 1080p, connecting via HDMI to my Onkyo 705 and then HDMI to my Sony 1080p LCD rear proj tv (hdmi switching thru the amp.)

-Stuart



Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

Thanks for putting this together casey.christian!

Here's a bit more info on the SD 4:3 issue:

Reproducibility: Always
Firmware: All (so far BH02080402F, BH02080314B, and original)
Driver: 0702, 0701
Connection: HDMI (component does not upconvert, so it might not exhibit the same problem)
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post #33 of 191
5/8/08 at 7:26pm
The BH 200 turns off my TV during boot up. I have a Mitsubishi WS 55315. I have no idea if it is a compatablity (resolution) issue, or if the simplink function is sending a signal that the TV is translating as a shut off signal.

This is Via a HDMI to DVI cable connection. And it happens with the resolution set at 1080i or AUTO on the BH200...

FIX THIS IN THE NEXT UPGRADE... PLEASE.
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post #34 of 191
5/8/08 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpat View Post

Are you sure it's not your display device?

I'm watching 4:3 SD DVD content right now, and it's not stretched (black pillars on both side).

By default my tv was stretching, but I went into the tv menu and disabled it, and now it's displaying proper ratio.

My BH200 is set to 1080p, connecting via HDMI to my Onkyo 705 and then HDMI to my Sony 1080p LCD rear proj tv (hdmi switching thru the amp.)

-Stuart

What are your video settings on the BH200....mine stretches the picture on 4:3 material on SD DVD when my projector is set to native. With the same projector setting, the projector shows 4:3 480i material from my DVR pillarboxed (both through HDMI through the same input on my amp). I'm using the April firmware with the 702 driver update, so there has to be some type of difference in the BH200.
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post #35 of 191
5/8/08 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpat View Post

By default my tv was stretching, but I went into the tv menu and disabled it, and now it's displaying proper ratio.

And there lies the problem. Many TVs don't let you choose the 4:3 mode when being sent a signal from an HDMI cable. Actually it may not be HDMI connected.

I know on my Samsung TV the Display modes change depending what source is being fed it, which is annoying to say the least. I've not tested the BH200 with it yet though.

You're lucky yours does.
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post #36 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volleybradt View Post

Don't forget about the Dolby Digital + issue for some receivers. Hearing nothing but the helicopter sound....

Quote:
Originally Posted by davcole View Post

Yes experienced this on the Onkyo 705. After successfully playing some BD's in PCM, DTS-MA and TRUEHD, they all played without a hitch. When I got the player on Sunday I didn't have a problem with it reading my HD DVD's at all wheter it was DD+ or TRUEHD. The second day I loaded some HD DVDs such as Bourne Supremacy and U-571 which I got the "helicopter" sound where you would see that the DD+ bitstream wasn't correctly being sent to the receiver. The 705 does not identify the bitstream being sent, you only get the noise.

[SNIP]

In summary it seems that the bitstream is in connection with HD DVD's and not BD as i've not had a bitstream problem with the BD's i've played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davcole View Post

This is only happening with HD DVD bitstreaming so far only with DD+ and the DTS core (dts... only one disc). Yes, i'm using HDMI connection from BH200 to the Onkyo 705.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volleybradt View Post

I use a Pioneer Elite 92 receiver and the problem is limited of course to HD DVDs that use DD+. Also this is only in bitstreaming while connected to HDMI.

Thank you both for taking the time to provide more details. I've added this as the second "official" bug on the list. Could anyone provide me with links to a couple other threads where this has been discussed? I'd like to provide those as well if possible.

On a side note, I've watched Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, Alexander Revisited, Sleepy Hollow, Into the Wild, and a couple others that I can't think of right now in their entirety on HD DVD with DD+ bitstreaming to my Onkyo 705 and have yet to have an issue. Maybe I've just been lucky so far?

-C.
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post #37 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpat View Post

Are you sure it's not your display device?

I'm watching 4:3 SD DVD content right now, and it's not stretched (black pillars on both side).

By default my tv was stretching, but I went into the tv menu and disabled it, and now it's displaying proper ratio.

My BH200 is set to 1080p, connecting via HDMI to my Onkyo 705 and then HDMI to my Sony 1080p LCD rear proj tv (hdmi switching thru the amp.)

-Stuart

Totally not the display that was stretching it.

Are you also connected via HDMI? What resolution have you set?

480p/i should be fine. Component is probably OK too. Neither of those involve upconversion.

As soon as upconversion is involved, the SD 4:3 image is stretched as though it was anamorphic content...even though it's not.

I suppose it's possible the April firmware fixed that...pretty sure I tested it...but I'm not home right now so I can't verify. D'oh. I'll re-test this weekend.
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post #38 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:09pm
Thread Starter 
@ davcole & volleybradt - one other question I just thought of. Have either of you (or anyone else reading) tried decoding the DD+ internally and then sending it via PCM Multi-Ch? Is it only a bitstreaming problem, in other words? Thanks!

-C.
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post #39 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 
I've gone ahead and posted this as bug #3, but please keep me posted. I'm interested to see everyone's findings. Is it an HDMI issue? Is it a 1080 upscaling issue? Can certain TV's display the 4:3 correctly, etc.? Thanks!

-C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

Totally not the display that was stretching it.

Are you also connected via HDMI? What resolution have you set?

480p/i should be fine. Component is probably OK too. Neither of those involve upconversion.

As soon as upconversion is involved, the SD 4:3 image is stretched as though it was anamorphic content...even though it's not.

I suppose it's possible the April firmware fixed that...pretty sure I tested it...but I'm not home right now so I can't verify. D'oh. I'll re-test this weekend.
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post #40 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:21pm
As I understand it it's not an Upscaling issue but how the BH200 handles a 4:3 aspect ratio. I believe it does this as there are no 4:3 aspect ratios in the HD arena and it's designed to be an HD Player first, obviously LG should take account of 4:3 though.

And because of this 4:3 (or letterbox) material is treated as if it was 16:9. Even anamorphic content shouldn't be "forced" into 16:9. Obviously you're always going to want to but technically speaking you should be able to choose the 4:3 mode even with anamorphic content. Does that make sense?

The problem seems to be that because the BH200 is sending the wrong type of signal (maybe a missing flag) the TV gets the wrong signal and denies access to the 4:3 mode, in most/many TV cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

Could anyone provide me with links to a couple other threads where this has been discussed? I'd like to provide those as well if possible.

You could use the posts you quoted as the source links .

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

Have either of you (or anyone else reading) tried decoding the DD+ internally and then sending it via PCM Multi-Ch? Is it only a bitstreaming problem, in other words? Thanks!

Yes I'm sure I read it was a DD+ "Bitstream" problem.
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post #41 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

Casey: I only see 2 (PCM 5.1 as and DD+) not 3?

Just posted it ... please read it and let me know what you think of the wording and if I explained it well. I understand what you're saying about it needing to handle 4:3 and not forcing everything into 16:9, but I just want to get all the facts and keep the actual bug posting as brief and concise as possible.

-C.
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post #42 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:24pm
Cool.

What about Audio and Video drop outs? That bug needs mentioning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

Just posted it ...

Shouldn't it be 480p not 480i? Also you could say 480p/576p. I'm sure 576p would be fine too and when the BH200 outputs PAL it will be 576p (i.e - A Euro Player or Modified North American Player).

It reads fine. Agreed you want to be as concise as possible, to the point is best.
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post #43 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefstar View Post

The BH 200 turns off my TV during boot up. I have a Mitsubishi WS 55315. I have no idea if it is a compatablity (resolution) issue, or if the simplink function is sending a signal that the TV is translating as a shut off signal.

This is Via a HDMI to DVI cable connection. And it happens with the resolution set at 1080i or AUTO on the BH200.

Thanks for your posting! Do you know if anyone else has experienced these problems with their TV? If so, is it only a Mitsubishi thing or does it happen with other makes as well? Please provide me with links if possible to other user's postings about this.

If not, I'll add your bug as reported by one person tomorrow. Thanks!

-C.
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post #44 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:31pm
Agreed. I've never had an audio dropout, but I get video dropouts pretty regularly.

The odd thing is, it happens pretty frequently when in the BH200 home menu (a quick flash to black, and then the picture returns), but it doesn't happen that much when watching movies (although I have had a few).

-Stuart


Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

Cool.
What about Audio and Video drop outs? That bug needs mentioning.
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post #45 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:31pm
Re: My two pennies worth on "Confirmed by more than one user/Confirmed by one user":

While I think this works fine for "Disc Problems" it could open an Aladdin's Cave of possible bugs and before you know it the list is endless. Many/Some of these "one user" bugs could be incompatibilities.

In the case of "Disc Problems" I tend to only put on problems that affect the movie and/or extras. If for example it's a case of subs not being selectable from the menu but you can use the remote or the menus are a bit glitchy but otherwise work I'm not inclined to include them. So as to try and manage the amount of titles on the list.

That's just my opinion though .
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post #46 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

What about Audio and Video drop outs? That bug needs mentioning.

Do you think that qualifies as non-disk specific? Yeah, I'll just answer my own question ... yes, it qualifies! I'll add that tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

Shouldn't it be 480p not 480i? Also you could say 480p/576p. I'm sure 576p would be fine too and when the BH200 outputs PAL it will be 576p (i.e - A Euro Player or Modified North American Player).

You're probably right; following oilblue's lead, I changed it to read 480i/p. And, not to sound too "American centric" but I'll just leave the whole 576p out of it for now. Besides, you Europeans are smart enough to figure out what I'm talking about!

Thanks, again for all your help and input!

-C.
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post #47 of 191
5/8/08 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

Thanks for your posting! Do you know if anyone else has experienced these problems with their TV? If so, is it only a Mitsubishi thing or does it happen with other makes as well? Please provide me with links if possible to other user's postings about this.

If not, I'll add your bug as reported by one person tomorrow. Thanks!

-C.

I haven't been able to find anyone else with the issue, but of course I haven't been able to find anyone with the same TV that doesn't have the issue either. If someone has the same tv with no problems, then I may be able to narrow the solution down.
But I can say it is not a random thing, it happens 100% of the time, at the same time. So I'm not sure if it is a simplink signal, or if it is a handshake conflict.
For all I know it could be a signal being sent from the BH that is conflicting with the TV which is forcing a shut down, which of course can't be good.
So what I do , just in case, is leave the TV off until the BH has fully booted, or leave the TV on a different input during the boot up.
The Mitsu does not diplay 720i or p , so I'm wandering if the TV is protecting during the AUTO 720 scan, so to attempt to correct it I turned the AUTO resolution to 1080i, which did not work. So that could indicate that the forced resolution setting on the BH is not functioning correctly, and the BH is still AUTO setting. ANY IDEAS??? Does any on have the same Mits series TV?

THANKS....
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post #48 of 191
5/8/08 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

As I understand it it's not an Upscaling issue but how the BH200 handles a 4:3 aspect ratio. I believe it does this as there are no 4:3 aspect ratios in the HD arena and it's designed to be an HD Player first, obviously LG should take account of 4:3 though.

And because of this 4:3 (or letterbox) material is treated as if it was 16:9. Even anamorphic content shouldn't be "forced" into 16:9. Obviously you're always going to want to but technically speaking you should be able to choose the 4:3 mode even with anamorphic content. Does that make sense?

The problem seems to be that because the BH200 is sending the wrong type of signal (maybe a missing flag) the TV gets the wrong signal and denies access to the 4:3 mode, in most/many TV cases.

Actually, upconverting is most likely part and parcel of this problem. I think someone posted that a resolution setting below 720p resulted in proper 4:3 aspect ratio.

With upconverting everything probably has to be forced into 16:9. The whole point of upconverting to 720p/1080i is that it's to a widescreen display. If it's not a widescreen display, then don't upconvert (select a resolution below 720p).

There isn't really a flag the BH200 could insert into a 720p/1080i signal. It just has to upconvert properly (i.e. maintain the aspect ratio).

Currently it looks like the BH200 treats all SD content as anamorphic, stretches that (as it should for anamorphic), and then upconverts it to either 720p or 1080i (as selected under Resolution).

AFAIK, the BH200 is not the only hi-def player with this problem.

In addition to verifying the problem with 4:3 source content this weekend, I'll check a widescreen non-anamorphic source (original Titanic DVD). Could prove interesting.
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post #49 of 191
5/9/08 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

AFAIK, the BH200 is not the only hi-def player with this problem.

The machine that has a lot of fanboys -- PS3 -- has the same issue with SD material on Blu-ray discs...however, it treats 100% SD DVD's correctly.
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post #50 of 191
5/9/08 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

@ davcole & volleybradt - one other question I just thought of. Have either of you (or anyone else reading) tried decoding the DD+ internally and then sending it via PCM Multi-Ch? Is it only a bitstreaming problem, in other words? Thanks!

-C.

Bitstreaming is the only issue, works when decoded internally...
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post #51 of 191
5/9/08 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

And, not to sound too "American centric" but I'll just leave the whole 576p out of it for now. Besides, you Europeans are smart enough to figure out what I'm talking about!

Don't forget Canadians North of the border too . If I kept the "disc problem" thread European focused it wouldn't have much on it and all the dates would be in a funny order . There'd probably be a revolution too . American's playing PAL discs will also output in 576i/p.

Anyway fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefstar View Post

The Mitsu does not diplay 720i or p

That is unusual.

Have you tried a different HDMI lead and/or a Component lead? You could even test it with a Composite lead, just to see if it turns the TV off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

Actually, upconverting is most likely part and parcel of this problem.

It is indirectly but I was hypothesising that's it more the fact it's now an HD resolution than part of the Upscaling process. Which I guess indirectly you were too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

I'll check a widescreen non-anamorphic source (original Titanic DVD). Could prove interesting.

It will be interesting to see because with a non-anamorphic source you'd want to use your Zoom not 4:3 mode on your TV.
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post #52 of 191
5/9/08 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post


That is unusual.

Have you tried a different HDMI lead and/or a Component lead? You could even test it with a Composite lead, just to see if it turns the TV off.


No I haven't tried another cable yet, mostly because it's the same cable I used with my A30 with no problems at all.

Also I may have not been clear, but the Mistu only displays 480i, 480p and 1080i.

I could solve the problem by purchasing a new TV but, my plan is to add a projector later. But the problem I am having may be an indicator of a bug. As I said, it may indicate that the setting on the BH for forced resolution is not functioning properly. Can anyone test this on a TV that displays all of the resolution. Can you see if, when placing the BH on a forced resolution, that the BH still auto searches?
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post #53 of 191
5/10/08 at 6:52am
Hi,
here is another bug:
No "Multichannel-PCM" via HDMI, only "stereo" with Denon 4306 (european model)
My player: BH200 ,US-model, current driver/sw. Tried all settings (pass through, PCM etc.)
Confirmed by another user from norway (heja).
Greetings,
Andreas, Heidelberg, Germany
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post #54 of 191
5/10/08 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefstar View Post

I haven't been able to find anyone else with the issue, but of course I haven't been able to find anyone with the same TV that doesn't have the issue either. If someone has the same tv with no problems, then I may be able to narrow the solution down.
But I can say it is not a random thing, it happens 100% of the time, at the same time. So I'm not sure if it is a simplink signal, or if it is a handshake conflict.
For all I know it could be a signal being sent from the BH that is conflicting with the TV which is forcing a shut down, which of course can't be good.
So what I do , just in case, is leave the TV off until the BH has fully booted, or leave the TV on a different input during the boot up.
The Mitsu does not diplay 720i or p , so I'm wandering if the TV is protecting during the AUTO 720 scan, so to attempt to correct it I turned the AUTO resolution to 1080i, which did not work. So that could indicate that the forced resolution setting on the BH is not functioning correctly, and the BH is still AUTO setting. ANY IDEAS??? Does any on have the same Mits series TV?

THANKS....

I have a Mits 65315 so, other than the screen size, it should be pretty much the same as the 55315. I have not experienced this problem but the HDMI outputs from both my DVR and the 200 are going into my Onkyo 875 receiver, not directly to the TV. Out of the 875, I have HDMI to DVI going to the TV. The 200 is set to 1080i.
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post #55 of 191
5/10/08 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
Hey, all - sorry I've been kind of M.I.A. lately; very busy at work and at home it seems. I just added the audio and video drops bug. Please let me know if you think the wording is off or if there are any important details I missed. I'll try to get caught up with the other items this weekend.

On an unrelated (and off topic posting, I know ... I know) note, I just ordered my new television. After much research and consideration, I went with the Samsung PN50A550. I'm very excited! I've always had either Panasonic or Pioneer 42" plasmas before, but both the user and professional reviews have been so good that I just couldn't resist. It should be here sometime late next week. I'm feeling like a kid in a candy store right now!

-C.
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post #56 of 191
5/10/08 at 3:14pm
Are video drop outs more common than audio ones?

Quick question, off topic: What type of tuner is common in American TVs? Analogue, Digital or both? 99.9% of UK TVs now have Digital (Aerial) and Analogue tuners.

I hope you like the new TV.
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post #57 of 191
5/10/08 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.truesound View Post

Hi,
here is another bug:
No "Multichannel-PCM" via HDMI, only "stereo" with Denon 4306 (european model)
My player: BH200 ,US-model, current driver/sw. Tried all settings (pass through, PCM etc.)
Confirmed by another user from norway (heja).
Greetings,
Andreas, Heidelberg, Germany

Maybe you can only get Multichannel PCM with HDMI 1.3. Works fine with my Onkyo 875. Anyone having this problem with a Denon 4308?
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post #58 of 191
5/10/08 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHD View Post

Maybe you can only get Multichannel PCM with HDMI 1.3. Works fine with my Onkyo 875. Anyone having this problem with a Denon 4308?

You should be able to get Multichannel PCM with any version of HDMI, but there does seem to be an issue with the Denon 4306 in particular (I don't know whether 4306 owners are able to get Multichannel PCM from sources other than the BH200?).
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post #59 of 191
5/10/08 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobHD View Post

I have a Mits 65315 so, other than the screen size, it should be pretty much the same as the 55315. I have not experienced this problem but the HDMI outputs from both my DVR and the 200 are going into my Onkyo 875 receiver, not directly to the TV. Out of the 875, I have HDMI to DVI going to the TV. The 200 is set to 1080i.

Thanks, would it be possible to connect your 200 directly to you TV to test it? Hopefully it would be as simple as unplugging your HDMI from your reciever and plugging it into your 200. You can PM me direct if you would like.
Sounds like your Reciever may be filtering.
Thanks again. Oh what brand is your DVI to HDMI cable?
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post #60 of 191
5/10/08 at 7:08pm
The HD DVD "helicopter" sound problem also exists with Marantz receivers and is not intermittent. It is constant with DD and DD+. TrueHD is fine. Running the latest firmware, 0702 driver, and a Marantz SR7002.
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