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Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 174

post #5191 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


help us help you...

1) budget...
2) what speakers have you listened to that you like?

fwiw, you don't have to buy speakers to "match" avrs... modern equipment is neutral...

normal when I buy some thing I don't have budget but thing about $3000
I saw in the web Crystal acoustic THX speakers but I don't know how they hear and in Malta we don't have a dealer
About the speakers they take the best buy on the reviews.


What you thing??
post #5192 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

pretty good defense of the susano, considering i could tell your heart wasn't in it...

you noticed

it's a tough nut. if all we do recommend other choices, I'll own mine for years to come for sure

there have to be some who still place a value on those flagships, chris, or no one will consider buying them used.

still, even though I was taking my usual time to say it, it's hard not to argue that buying the latest is the best choice.

connectivity...I had forgotten that one. thanks, I'll remember that for my ad Why of all people, I should forget that one means I'm slipping today

got back from a great outdoors vacation so my hard edged objectivity is not up to snuff yet!
post #5193 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

you noticed

it's a tough nut. if all we do recommend other choices, I'll own mine for years to come for sure

there have to be some who still place a value on those flagships, chris, or no one will consider buying them used.

still, even though I was taking my usual time to say it, it's hard not to argue that buying the latest is the best choice.

connectivity...I had forgotten that one. thanks, I'll remember that for my ad Why of all people, I should forget that one means I'm slipping today

got back from a great outdoors vacation so my hard edged objectivity is not up to snuff yet!

It's not just that - substitute "Pioneer Elite" for "flagship" and it's the same argument. All because of one missing feature! Pioneer looks like a good value in general if you value reliability, some tweakability of MCACC vs. a unit without XT32 and Audyssey Pro, and maybe the efficiency of the amps (or you just happen to like the sound). But otherwise, if you're willing to spend over about $1300 (the price that 4311's are going for with the right negotation), it's hard to argue to purchase a Pioneer except if a) you don't speak Denon, b) special interest in a feature that the higher end Denon doesn't have yet but a newer unit has or c) are spooked by an occasional report of HDMI dropout or microprocessor resetting.

So Steve - what's so special about the SC09 to make it a venerable flagship in the "it's like will never be seen again" category? Beyond what you paid, anyway:-).

If it's any consolation, I replaced a Denon DVD-5910 ($3500) with an Oppo BD player that was about seven times cheaper, and I don't think I'm alone on that one. Who's gonna want the Denon - other than somebody that's a collector of DVD players built like a tank or a diehard analog fan? Sic transit gloria audio.....
post #5194 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagostino View Post

normal when I buy some thing I don't have budget but thing about $3000
I saw in the web Crystal acoustic THX speakers but I don't know how they hear and in Malta we don't have a dealer
About the speakers they take the best buy on the reviews.


What you thing??

i'm the wrong person to tell that you don't have a budget...

sorry, i'm not familiar with those...
post #5195 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

you noticed

it's a tough nut. if all we do recommend other choices, I'll own mine for years to come for sure

there have to be some who still place a value on those flagships, chris, or no one will consider buying them used.

still, even though I was taking my usual time to say it, it's hard not to argue that buying the latest is the best choice.

connectivity...I had forgotten that one. thanks, I'll remember that for my ad Why of all people, I should forget that one means I'm slipping today

got back from a great outdoors vacation so my hard edged objectivity is not up to snuff yet!

yup, i did...

yes, how could YOU forget connectivity??? you have more sources than anyone i know...

ahhh... vacation!! hope you saw lots of birds...
post #5196 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

It's not just that - substitute "Pioneer Elite" for "flagship" and it's the same argument. All because of one missing feature! Pioneer looks like a good value in general if you value reliability, some tweakability of MCACC vs. a unit without XT32 and Audyssey Pro, and maybe the efficiency of the amps (or you just happen to like the sound). But otherwise, if you're willing to spend over about $1300 (the price that 4311's are going for with the right negotation), it's hard to argue to purchase a Pioneer except if a) you don't speak Denon, b) special interest in a feature that the higher end Denon doesn't have yet but a newer unit has or c) are spooked by an occasional report of HDMI dropout or microprocessor resetting.

So Steve - what's so special about the SC09 to make it a venerable flagship in the "it's like will never be seen again" category? Beyond what you paid, anyway:-).

If it's any consolation, I replaced a Denon DVD-5910 ($3500) with an Oppo BD player that was about seven times cheaper, and I don't think I'm alone on that one. Who's gonna want the Denon - other than somebody that's a collector of DVD players built like a tank or a diehard analog fan? Sic transit gloria audio.....

yup to all of that...

gotta admit, i still miss the lcd on the susano...

and yup, thata denon would be a hard sell for any type of reasonable price...
post #5197 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yup to all of that...

gotta admit, i still miss the lcd on the susano...

Coming from you that's not a surprise...(the yup part anyway).

That's one other feature beyond connectivity and amps. Anything else?
post #5198 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i'm the wrong person to tell that you don't have a budget...

sorry, i'm not familiar with those...

The ultimate test - are you gonna spring for a Sherwood A-972 this weekend? That should give you a 'labor of love' bling purchase.
post #5199 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Coming from you that's not a surprise...(the yup part anyway).

That's one other feature beyond connectivity and amps. Anything else?

nope. not really... i don't need any of the connections i don't have...

one thing that worked out well for me is that i was able to sell it one year after i bought it at zero loss... not really a feature thoughh, and unlikely to be the case today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

The ultimate test - are you gonna spring for a Sherwood A-972 this weekend? That should give you a 'labor of love' bling purchase.

is someone going to be selling them at a reasonable price? does that really have full blown trinnov, or just a subset?
post #5200 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

nope. not really... i don't need any of the connections i don't have...

one thing that worked out well for me is that i was able to sell it one year after i bought it at zero loss... not really a feature thoughh, and unlikely to be the case today...



is someone going to be selling them at a reasonable price? does that really have full blown trinnov, or just a subset?

Let's just say that they're being deep discounted new as per the great deals thread here (as in: cheaper than used ones when I Google it). If I had more than a few hours per day to play with my A/V addition I'd probably buy one.

Re your second question it's a subset, not the full blown professional level. Although from what I see on the dedicated A-972 thread, the pictures look pretty:-). There's something awfully strange about the 'too good to be true' price IMO.

We now return your thread to you....
post #5201 of 5378
^^^

i'm gonna have to look... i've had an itch to try out trinnov, but i stopped paying attention to that unit awhile ago....

i really don't need another avr...

ah, i'm glad you added on the "subset" part....
post #5202 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by akbash View Post

Would the sc 09tx still be worth buying used today for mid 2000 range or is it outdated i have a oppo 93 and am looking at a new receiver was leaning towards the new denon 4313 or integra 80.3 i know these sc09 were very high end i dont want to buy one if it wont work with todays blueray audio set ups

My 10c worth - I upgraded to LX90 from a Denon 4306 after a couple very frustrating years. The Denon was great for TV / movies but terrible with music. I changed everything - speakers, cables, cd player etc before finally caving in and swapping the amp. I guess it depends what your priorities are (movies/features/music).

I would point out that I havent heard any recent Denon gear so they may have improved but IMHO Denon have gone feature-heavy these days and sacrificed sound quality. They wouldnt be on my shopping list any time soon.
post #5203 of 5378
Steve thanks for the reply back I thought about the sc-09 but have ruled it out I have a Denon 1803 right now about 10 years old using optical output from my oppo 93. I will wait for the Denon 4313 to come out and see how it turns out. As for amp power this might not be a factor in the future I just got the seaton submersive hp sub a few weeks ago which is a awesome sub now I am thinking of getting the seaton cat 8 speakers LCR which are self powered total of 1000watts per speaker I also will look at the Integra for a pre/pro but most likely the Denon as i could use its amps for rear surrounds until i can afford the rest of the seaton line. I asked Mark Seaton about receivers he recommended the Denon or Onkyo because of the bass management they offered.
post #5204 of 5378
IMO Susano is worth the money just for sound quality alone.

My first Denon amp (20 years ago) was one of THE first 'A/V' amps and was incredible - they pretty much took 6 of their audiophile amplifiers and whacked than in a big box with a massive power supply. Beautiful sound. I was hugely disappointed to buy a new receiver in 2006 which wasnt remotely comparable in terms of sound quality. I think its very easy these days to get sucked into the feature-count, connectivity madness instead of taking some time to actually listen to the kit with what your material will be, before buying.

Denon may well have improved their sound quality dramatically in recent years but the only way to tell is to go listen. Spending more time listening to the 4306 would have saved me a lot of time, money & frustration.

I love my Susano. It sounds just as pure and powerful whether I slip in a BluRay or old-skool CD - over the analogue connections for the latter. Par excellence.

I'd be REALLY happy to see one of the big guns eschew all the crazy mass-market features - 1'000 connections, WiFi etc etc etc - and just build a stunningly powerful, quality sound machine. Seriously do we all need the mass of connections and features on offer from todays AVR's? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
post #5205 of 5378
A Kuro Monitor version no less!
post #5206 of 5378
It is not really fair to call it a subset if it is meant as a con.

I don't see how it is more or less complicated than a base xt32 4311, for example. The results could be better depending on what opinion you read

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Let's just say that they're being deep discounted new as per the great deals thread here (as in: cheaper than used ones when I Google it). If I had more than a few hours per day to play with my A/V addition I'd probably buy one.

Re your second question it's a subset, not the full blown professional level. Although from what I see on the dedicated A-972 thread, the pictures look pretty:-). There's something awfully strange about the 'too good to be true' price IMO.

We now return your thread to you....
post #5207 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i'm the wrong person to tell that you don't have a budget...

sorry, i'm not familiar with those...

still I need your advise what I said is not that I am very rich
I was looking at the THX Crystal Acoustic speakers and they give them good
Reviews and the price is not very high.

what you thing about this speakers or there are THX speakers should consider
Like MK and Atlantic?
post #5208 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Let's just say that they're being deep discounted new as per the great deals thread here (as in: cheaper than used ones when I Google it). If I had more than a few hours per day to play with my A/V addition I'd probably buy one.

Re your second question it's a subset, not the full blown professional level. Although from what I see on the dedicated A-972 thread, the pictures look pretty:-). There's something awfully strange about the 'too good to be true' price IMO.

We now return your thread to you....

I have a feeling S/N is clearing them out and that will be the end of Trinnov in an affordable consumer line. Curt H. stated that there are no plans for another consumer level version of Trinnov. They'll offer the full suite though ADA and possibly others but it ain't cheap. The whole enchilada version of Trinnov is highly tweakable, adjustable and powerful. Dan's evaluation of it vs. Dirac Live made clear the need for professional advice in set up. From what I've read, the big rig isn't intended for automagic RC.

All that said, at the price ACL is selling these units for, I'm mighty tempted to buy one. The 972 isn't as current as my 4311 but for that price you could justify it as a RC system alone. They've apparently worked out the bugs so it's even more tempting.

Chris
post #5209 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by akbash View Post

Steve thanks for the reply back I thought about the sc-09 but have ruled it out I have a Denon 1803 right now about 10 years old using optical output from my oppo 93. I will wait for the Denon 4313 to come out and see how it turns out. As for amp power this might not be a factor in the future I just got the seaton submersive hp sub a few weeks ago which is a awesome sub now I am thinking of getting the seaton cat 8 speakers LCR which are self powered total of 1000watts per speaker I also will look at the Integra for a pre/pro but most likely the Denon as i could use its amps for rear surrounds until i can afford the rest of the seaton line. I asked Mark Seaton about receivers he recommended the Denon or Onkyo because of the bass management they offered.

I run a full Seaton rig with cat 12's, sparks, and a submersive hp. Used to have the SC-09 and it worked very well. The pied piper drew me to the dark side with the Denon 4311 and it works better. There's no category in which it doesn't exceed the Susano except in the looks/rack candy department (by a LOT!) if you run active loudspeakers. Personally, I would not wait for the 4313 to come out. It's hard to imagine any real advances it might offer and will street for about twice as much $.

Sorry for the OT guys...

Chris
post #5210 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

The ultimate test - are you gonna spring for a Sherwood A-972 this weekend? That should give you a 'labor of love' bling purchase.

I actually thought of that since there's some kind of super sale price (closeout inventory reduction of older model? ) Tire kicked the idea before vacation. I don't know what the actual sale price is though.

The only compelling reason is to try out Trinnov, even if it's the slimmed down version. I'm still intrigued with Trinnov since I heard the CEDIA demo. Only wish someone would deliver a full featured, bug-free version at a normal person's price!

Plugging in a 972 into the SC-09's analog's jacks...a kludge but it is an option I've also thought of a Denon 4311/4313 the same way
post #5211 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

I have a feeling S/N is clearing them out and that will be the end of Trinnov in an affordable consumer line. Curt H. stated that there are no plans for another consumer level version of Trinnov. They'll offer the full suite though ADA and possibly others but it ain't cheap. The whole enchilada version of Trinnov is highly tweakable, adjustable and powerful. Dan's evaluation of it vs. Dirac Live made clear the need for professional advice in set up.

I tried keeping up with the evaluation thread and it got pretty technical. I did check out the conclusions & it's definitely a winner and a toy for hi-end home theaters. $15K+ just for Trinnov is beyond my reach while still having other things in life to enjoy besides home theater

The new ADA that has on-board Trinnov will go for 30K beans. Jeff Bland will no doubt be 1st in line to order it
post #5212 of 5378
This seems to it for trinnov for the masses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I actually thought of that since there's some kind of super sale price (closeout inventory reduction of older model? ) Tire kicked the idea before vacation. I don't know what the actual sale price is though.

The only compelling reason is to try out Trinnov, even if it's the slimmed down version. I'm still intrigued with Trinnov since I heard the CEDIA demo. Only wish someone would deliver a full featured, bug-free version at a normal person's price!

Plugging in a 972 into the SC-09's analog's jacks...a kludge but it is an option I've also thought of a Denon 4311/4313 the same way
post #5213 of 5378
Thread Starter 
^^
dang that is cheap

for that $$, it's tempting just to take Trinnov for a spin. I spent more than that on AustinJerry's SVS AS-EQ1 just to try audyssey bass correction out not much more, but still...

at that price, I wonder how long the supply will last.

just bought a new toy before our vacation, trying to get back to one of my early hobbies & do some real photography with a new Nikon dig SLR & couple of lenses. so it's bill paying time now

I still hope for a good deal on someone's updated Denon AVP if/when that happens, then I hope some folks will take a look at 1 mint condition susano with all the firmware updated And I'm anxiously waiting to see what a 4313 will bring to the table.

I do have plans just not ready yet to...execute them
chris will keep my interest up, I know he will he really wants more to join the dark side!
post #5214 of 5378
^^^

yes, i will...

after a bit of investigation, even though my interest is somewhat piqued by that 972 deal, i'm gonna pass... now that its almost spring, i'm gonna be spending my spare time outside for awhile...

not to mention it wouldn't be a lot of fun to try to integrate a 1.3 avr into my setup... i've got enough switches and splitters as it is...
post #5215 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagostino View Post

still I need your advise what I said is not that I am very rich
I was looking at the THX Crystal Acoustic speakers and they give them good
Reviews and the price is not very high.

what you thing about this speakers or there are THX speakers should consider
Like MK and Atlantic?

dunno... i'm not real hung up on the thx designation...

speakers are subjective... what i like, you may not like... and without you being able to tell us what speakers you've listened to, we can't tell you what might be comparable...

it would be really easy just to recommend what i have (salks) and i would imagine jim could get them shipped there... but i can't in good conscience recommend that you spend thousands of dollars on something without knowing some examples of what you like...

problem is, i have zero idea what might be available in malta...
post #5216 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I actually thought of that since there's some kind of super sale price (closeout inventory reduction of older model? ) Tire kicked the idea before vacation. I don't know what the actual sale price is though.

The only compelling reason is to try out Trinnov, even if it's the slimmed down version. I'm still intrigued with Trinnov since I heard the CEDIA demo. Only wish someone would deliver a full featured, bug-free version at a normal person's price!

Plugging in a 972 into the SC-09's analog's jacks...a kludge but it is an option I've also thought of a Denon 4311/4313 the same way

Hey, if I wanted to actually spend the $ I'm the guy that thought about picking up a 4311 and using it as a prepro with an SC-57. This isn't so strange....

Now there's a Frankenstein's monster of an idea: take the SC-57, use it as a prepro on analog to an R-972, then output audio on HDMI to the SC-57 (or analog in, for that matter). Does that kind of thing work without creating strange sync delays or feedback loops?
post #5217 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

It is not really fair to call it a subset if it is meant as a con.

I don't see how it is more or less complicated than a base xt32 4311, for example. The results could be better depending on what opinion you read

Not meant as a slam - just a commentary about the Sherwood's implementation of Trinnov vs. the expectation of the full Trinnov set. There's a few folks that would lust after the ADA version...in our dreams, anyway.
post #5218 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Hey, if I wanted to actually spend the $ I'm the guy that thought about picking up a 4311 and using it as a prepro with an SC-57. This isn't so strange....

Now there's a Frankenstein's monster of an idea: take the SC-57, use it as a prepro on analog to an R-972, then output audio on HDMI to the SC-57 (or analog in, for that matter). Does that kind of thing work without creating strange sync delays or feedback loops?

hmmm... maybe... hard to say until actually implemented...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Not meant as a slam - just a commentary about the Sherwood's implementation of Trinnov vs. the expectation of the full Trinnov set. There's a few folks that would lust after the ADA version...in our dreams, anyway.

yes, include me in the "dreaming about it" group... but it is WAY out of my budget...

going by what i read on the thread on the unit, i don't think a lot of people are understanding that there is a significant difference between how it is implemented on the sherwood vs. full blown trinnov... i think people are hearing "trinnov" and not thinking it all the way through...
post #5219 of 5378
HI guys,

Today I just set the Pioneer SC-LX90 in the rack the problem the I am getting is
that I can set the BD to HDMI 1 because when I go in setup and go inputs well
not let me to do it HDMI 1 I don't know.

other problem is that I cant make the LCD DISPLAY see the movie or pictures
in the BD?


can you help me guys please!!!!!!!!
post #5220 of 5378
Thread Starter 
^^
can you explain your 1st problem a little differently? not sure I understand.

2nd issue - IIRC, the LCD display doesn't work with hdmi, if you want it to show what you're watching, just connect composite or s-video from the BD player and assign HDMI 1 to the same source as the std video. You'll watch HDMI on your TV and simultaneously the composite video on the LCD panel.
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