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Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 175

post #5221 of 5375
^^^

you recall correctly... only analog sources to the LCD... since the susano only passes through hdmi sources...
post #5222 of 5375
to speak to the first problem, if i'm understanding what you are saying, you need to turn OFF hdmi control (kurolink)... you cannot assign hdmi inputs with it turned on...
post #5223 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

to speak to the first problem, if i'm understanding what you are saying, you need to turn OFF hdmi control (kurolink)... you cannot assign hdmi inputs with it turned on...

Thanks ccotenj

first problem I turn off the HDMI control and work fine then
I make work the LCD display to see the picture on the amp with SVHS cable not good quality but work fine.

I want to ask you if you try work with HDMI and connect the SVHS at the same time well work?

THE PLAYER IS DVD
post #5224 of 5375
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagostino View Post

I want to ask you if you try work with HDMI and connect the SVHS at the same time well work?

THE PLAYER IS DVD

It should work just fine. HDMI will be passed thru to the TV and the receiver's LCD panel will display what comes from S-Video. In order to make it work, you'll need to assign HDMI 1 (I presume it's 1) to the player's input (either BD or DVD/LD will work if its just a DVD player & you don't have a laserdisc player).

Then make sure the selected audio input is either Auto or HDMI. Auto puts priority of audio input used in this order: Ilink, HDMI, digital opt/coax, analog. Without Ilink, it will go to HDMI as the next choice so you'd be OK with Auto. If you want to "hard-code" it to HDMI manually, that would also be your choice.

Set the onboard LCD panel to display source, which I assume you've figured out how to do in the setup menu, and you're good to go. In the manual, it says -

"Press LCD VIEW on the front panel to change the pattern of information.

This can be set separately for different inputs. Note, however, that only inputs with a video terminal (DVD/LD, BD, TV, SAT, DVR/VCR1, DVR/VCR2, VIDEO/GAME1 and VIDEO/GAME2), inputs from an iPod on which video is playing and inputs from MULTI CH IN for which VIDEO INPUT is set to something other than OFF can be set. With HDMI inputs, it is not possible to display external images on the LCD screen. To do so, connect to this receiver’s video input using an analog video cable."

It should work as long as you have both HDMI & your Svideo cable connected to the same source and that HDMI input assigned to that source.
post #5225 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

It should work just fine. HDMI will be passed thru to the TV and the receiver's LCD panel will display what comes from S-Video. In order to make it work, you'll need to assign HDMI 1 (I presume it's 1) to the player's input (either BD or DVD/LD will work if its just a DVD player & you don't have a laserdisc player).

Then make sure the selected audio input is either Auto or HDMI. Auto puts priority of audio input used in this order: Ilink, HDMI, digital opt/coax, analog. Without Ilink, it will go to HDMI as the next choice so you'd be OK with Auto. If you want to "hard-code" it to HDMI manually, that would also be your choice.

Set the onboard LCD panel to display source, which I assume you've figured out how to do in the setup menu, and you're good to go. In the manual, it says -

"Press LCD VIEW on the front panel to change the pattern of information.

This can be set separately for different inputs. Note, however, that only inputs with a video terminal (DVD/LD, BD, TV, SAT, DVR/VCR1, DVR/VCR2, VIDEO/GAME1 and VIDEO/GAME2), inputs from an iPod on which video is playing and inputs from MULTI CH IN for which VIDEO INPUT is set to something other than OFF can be set. With HDMI inputs, it is not possible to display external images on the LCD screen. To do so, connect to this receiver's video input using an analog video cable."

It should work as long as you have both HDMI & your Svideo cable connected to the same source and that HDMI input assigned to that source.

Thanks sorry for delay I well try it and I am change the speakers and I was looking the Atlantic Technology 6200e THX Ultra 2 what you thing about them? I see many good reviews on the them and hear the System 4400 and they was very good that way I well go for the bigger the 6200e.

I go for the Atlantic Technology 6200e THX Ultra 2 with Susano?
post #5226 of 5375
Thread Starter 
^^
I've never personally seen or heard speakers from Atlantic Tech. But, they have an excellent reputation, specs look good & your susano will have no problems driving them.

With speakers, what sounds good to you is the only thing that matters anyway Go with whichever one gives you the sound characteristics you enjoy

I assume you'll get one a sub or 2 and their matched surrounds/center.

You should have an excellent sounding system. Enjoy!!
And when you get it setup, let us know about it. We like photos too, if you think of it

I'm a planar fan myself, having owned Magnepans since the early 80's. But I've heard "box" speakers that are very very good
post #5227 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
I've never personally seen or heard speakers from Atlantic Tech. But, they have an excellent reputation, specs look good & your susano will have no problems driving them.

With speakers, what sounds good to you is the only thing that matters anyway Go with whichever one gives you the sound characteristics you enjoy

I assume you'll get one a sub or 2 and their matched surrounds/center.

You should have an excellent sounding system. Enjoy!!
And when you get it setup, let us know about it. We like photos too, if you think of it

I'm a planar fan myself, having owned Magnepans since the early 80's. But I've heard "box" speakers that are very very good

Thanks for sure I well put photos in this forum I just bought the Atlantic Tech THX subwoofer for now the other speakers well buy them next few months

I want to ask you how can I see this picture on display on my LX09 not movie only picture ,when the Amp comes on screen saver or not?
LL
post #5228 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagostino View Post

Thanks for sure I well put photos in this forum I just bought the Atlantic Tech THX subwoofer for now the other speakers well buy them next few months

I want to ask you how can I see this picture on display on my LX09 not movie only picture ,when the Amp comes on screen saver or not?

Congrats Mr Dagostino, now you have a real amp haha......enjoy it man to the max!!!
post #5229 of 5375
One of my friend says the sound would be better with EMOTIVA XPA-5 with Susano as a Pre.
Or more better with 1 EMOTIVA XPA-3 and 1 pc EMOTIVA XPA-2 used with Susano as a Pre again.
What is your idea ?
post #5230 of 5375
^^^

your friend is wrong...
post #5231 of 5375
Thread Starter 
^^
succinct as usual
I was going to post something about an hour ago similarly worded but I just knew you'd chime in
post #5232 of 5375
^^^

i figured i'd just cut right to the chase...
post #5233 of 5375
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgokdemir View Post

One of my friend says the sound would be better with EMOTIVA XPA-5 with Susano as a Pre.
Or more better with 1 EMOTIVA XPA-3 and 1 pc EMOTIVA XPA-2 used with Susano as a Pre again.
What is your idea ?

All kidding aside

You friend doesn't know the capabilities of what you have in the amp section. I would throw his suggestion in the trash can, where it belongs.

IMO, the ONLY possible need for ext amps with this receiver is if you have inefficient speakers, like planars or some electrostats and even then, the ONLY option I consider valid is possibly adding a dedicated 2 channel amp or monoblocks that have significantly higher power capability than the susano and let the receiver handle all surrounds & center.

The power supply in the susano is capable of total 1400 watts, which is more than your friend's XPA-5 And it's a lot more efficient, so more real world power can go the speakers than your friend's, even at 4 ohms. Your friend has bought into the Emotiva kool-aid and that's OK but he's not doing you a favor making a blanket recommendation like that.

In my own case, with large, inefficient planars, I do use a separate amp for the fronts. But that amp is rated at 600 watts per ch @ 4ohms, a far cry from any of the multichannel Emotivas. Plus I had that amp about 4-5 years before I bought the susano, so it was an easy decision to just continue using it.

Unless you think you can benefit from a 2 ch amp, save your money and put it to better use.
post #5234 of 5375
Thanks Steve and Chris

If you can remember my speaker set is MK S150s and SS150s with 5.1 setup.
They are 4 ohms.
I do not have inefficient speakers. I thought of the possibility of any positive change with this Emotiva addition.
As much as i get from your explanations it will not do such a change.
I think i better save my money for better improvements for my home cinema
post #5235 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebuzz View Post

Congrats Mr Dagostino, now you have a real amp haha......enjoy it man to the max!!!


Thanks Joebuzz I try to hear what I want and still I want to replace my speakers.
post #5236 of 5375
Hi guys,


I need some advice from you guys my friend just loan me two floor stand speakers JAMO 606 for the front for now,later I buy the Atlantic Technology System 6200e THX Ultra 2 and I want to know How can I set the speakers because I am not happy with sound like:

Large or small ?
The crossover frequency?
SW yes x 1 or plus 1

The subwoofer that I am using is the Atlantic Technology 642e SB THX Select I am say this because never head floor stand speakers in my home Theater.
post #5237 of 5375
^^^

small...
80hz...
sw yes x 1...
post #5238 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

small...
80hz...
sw yes x 1...

Hi Chris

when I put the setting on small there was no bass on the Jamo speakers
many treble
The 80hz is work only in the SW or speakers because there are not THX for now.
post #5239 of 5375
^^^

that would be expected, as you are removing the "bass" from the speakers by crossing them over... as you should be... there are many good reasons for doing it the way i suggested, and virtually no good reasons for doing it differently...

the "thx designation" doesn't matter...
post #5240 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

that would be expected, as you are removing the "bass" from the speakers by crossing them over... as you should be... there are many good reasons for doing it the way i suggested, and virtually no good reasons for doing it differently...

the "thx designation" doesn't matter...

when I set them large the speakers and the SW put it plus one and the cross over on 150hz or 200hz on music was very better but on movie I did not try them for now but I try it like you said.
post #5241 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

All kidding aside

You friend doesn't know the capabilities of what you have in the amp section. I would throw his suggestion in the trash can, where it belongs.

IMO, the ONLY possible need for ext amps with this receiver is if you have inefficient speakers, like planars or some electrostats and even then, the ONLY option I consider valid is possibly adding a dedicated 2 channel amp or monoblocks that have significantly higher power capability than the susano and let the receiver handle all surrounds & center.

The power supply in the susano is capable of total 1400 watts, which is more than your friend's XPA-5 And it's a lot more efficient, so more real world power can go the speakers than your friend's, even at 4 ohms. Your friend has bought into the Emotiva kool-aid and that's OK but he's not doing you a favor making a blanket recommendation like that.

In my own case, with large, inefficient planars, I do use a separate amp for the fronts. But that amp is rated at 600 watts per ch @ 4ohms, a far cry from any of the multichannel Emotivas. Plus I had that amp about 4-5 years before I bought the susano, so it was an easy decision to just continue using it.

Unless you think you can benefit from a 2 ch amp, save your money and put it to better use.


I own the SC-09TX and only use the amp inside the unit to power a second zone of speakers on the deck. I was unimpressed with the SC-09TX's amplifier section. It was good, but not great. There is something very sterile sounding with the internal digital amps. I use this unit for 2-channel listening and the internal digital amps didn't cut it for me. For home theater, they were perfectly adequate. However, for 2-channel music, multi-channel SACD and analog TT, the internal amp left a few things to be desired.

I purchased an XPA 2 and XPA 5 for my surround setup and was very happy with the results for music. After a while I moved the XPA 2 into another system and purchased (x3) XPA 1's for the fronts and have been very pleased. I am not sure what you mean by the "Emotiva hype" statement. These amps are very good, and this is coming from someone who spent years in the business as the sales manager for a high-end audio company.

In my opinion, the digital amplifiers in this unit are fine for movies for the most part. I am not putting down anyone using the amps in this unit. After all, that it what is was built for. I own the SC-09TX and love it as a processor. I simply was not satisfied with the amplifier section.
post #5242 of 5375
^^^

produce a properly controlled test, and we can talk...

until then, the preponderance of evidence suggests you are, umm, under an illusion... that is further reinforced by your comment about being the sales manager for a high-end audio company, which have been consistently shown to sell snake oil...

edit: the emotiva hype is real... they are useful cheap amps for someone who actually needs them...
post #5243 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

produce a properly controlled test, and we can talk...

until then, the preponderance of evidence suggests you are, umm, under an illusion... that is further reinforced by your comment about being the sales manager for a high-end audio company, which have been consistently shown to sell snake oil...

edit: the emotiva hype is real... they are useful cheap amps for someone who actually needs them...


Wow, everyone on the internet is a smart ass genius. You seem to lead this crew.

There is no need for a "controlled test" troll. What matters is what I hear and what my ears prefer. Sorry you can't accept another's opinion. You seem to attack anyone that has one differing from yours. My living room is not an anechoic chamber proving ground, nor does it need to be.
post #5244 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bar View Post


Wow, everyone on the internet is a smart ass genius. You seem to lead this crew.

There is no need for a "controlled test" troll. What matters is what I hear and what my ears prefer. Sorry you can't accept another's opinion. You seem to attack anyone that has one differing from yours. My living room is not an anechoic chamber proving ground, nor does it need to be.

What to believe?

The subjective opinion of a "golden ear" high end audio salesman

Or

Years of scientific research including many DBT's repeatedly showing that humans cannot differentiate between level matched solid state amps
post #5245 of 5375
ah, another set of golden ears...

gee, me, a "troll"... sorry, i accept "fact"... and the "fact" is, the preponderance of evidence suggests that your "opinion" (which really isn't an "opinion", it's "commentary") is "less than correct"...

no controlled test, no valid results, sorry... unless you are a borg... but as long as you are human, you are subject to the same conscious and unconscious bias as the rest of us...

if you want people to merrily play along with you, there are other websites where voodoo is not only accepted, but encouraged... fortunately, avs isn't one of them...
post #5246 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Bar View Post


I own the SC-09TX and only use the amp inside the unit to power a second zone of speakers on the deck. I was unimpressed with the SC-09TX's amplifier section. It was good, but not great. There is something very sterile sounding with the internal digital amps. I use this unit for 2-channel listening and the internal digital amps didn't cut it for me. For home theater, they were perfectly adequate. However, for 2-channel music, multi-channel SACD and analog TT, the internal amp left a few things to be desired.

I purchased an XPA 2 and XPA 5 for my surround setup and was very happy with the results for music. After a while I moved the XPA 2 into another system and purchased (x3) XPA 1's for the fronts and have been very pleased. I am not sure what you mean by the "Emotiva hype" statement. These amps are very good, and this is coming from someone who spent years in the business as the sales manager for a high-end audio company.

In my opinion, the digital amplifiers in this unit are fine for movies for the most part. I am not putting down anyone using the amps in this unit. After all, that it what is was built for. I own the SC-09TX and love it as a processor. I simply was not satisfied with the amplifier section.

Sounds like you prefer the sound of Class A/B amps with 2 channel audio compared to Class D. Nothing wrong with that as I prefer Class D.
post #5247 of 5375
Thread Starter 
+1, D

I own both class A/B & class D. And I have compared both with MCACC and all processing turned off.

To Jay Bar -

You are entitled, of course, to your own opinion, your own subjective hearing likes & dislikes. Nothing wrong with that.

But I have to ask, if the conversation were not about the econo Emotiva brand, let's say a Krell or some similar amp brand that costs $5-10000+, way beyond normal folk's budget, could you be objective in your hearing comparison? Just for supposing, let's say you just spent $20000 for a Krell Evolution 2 channel amp.

Could you be brutally objective in comparing the 2, or would you be subject to bias since it "has" to be better because it costs you 5 times as much as the whole AVR? Or look at it from the other side...would you like to think the budget amp is as good performance-wise or better sounding because it is so much cheaper and you can afford it but not the Krell? Sure you would...

See where I'm going?

Further, everytime someone posts anything remotely construed as negative or objective about Emotiva, the fans come running to defend the brand.

You like your Emotiva amps better than Ice amps? That's OK.

For the record, I based my reply to the poster not on fanboyism of the Pioneer (anyone who knows my posting knows that's definitely not the case), but as an answer to someone who "has a friend", who has not compared the 2 in the poster's room with the poster's speakers. Also probably doesn't know the power & capability in the SC-09. The way the poster described his friend's comments, it came across as his friend saying they would "sound better" not someone who has actually objectively compared them, compared power ratings, or even if his speakers would warrant an ext amp at all.

I said my opinion is the amps aren't needed or warranted as a general rule but also gave the types of speakers I thought may warrant an ext amp and my suggestion for the better option if that were the case.

The poster certainly is free to try them out on the 30 day grace period. And if he decides they sound "better", like you, he can plunk down the card for them. Each amp design has its strengths & its weaknesses.

I certainly don't care one way or another. All I'm here for is helping other owners.

Since I beat up on Pioneer as a company & how they've treated Susano owners, I cannot ever be accused of being blindly loyal to the brand or biased subjectively in favor of my SC-09

In fact, ALL my posts about Emotiva are NOT subjectively based at all, but on hard facts about their power supplies, total capacitance & inconsistencies between their multichannel amps & other brands with SIMILAR advertised power ratings.

I question the ability of the XPA-3 and XPA-5 amps specifically to perform as equals to amps like the Parasound A51, Anthem A5, ATI 2007 and Outlaw brands, based not on being anti-Emotiva but on what's in them. How all these companies need twice the transformer capacity & twice the number of capacitors for 5 channels to have the same power output as Emotiva advertises is a mystery to me I know the Chinese are good engineers but are they that good?

Maybe they've discovered some breakthrough in physics or EE

I say the same thing about DefTech subs - nice subs just don't expect them to produce anywhere close to their advertised freq response because they don't.

Sheesh - I hate these endless debates about Emotiva. Makes me "want to throw up" to quote one of our "intellectual" presidential candidates
post #5248 of 5375
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

What to believe?

The subjective opinion of a "golden ear" high end audio salesman

Or

Years of scientific research including many DBT's repeatedly showing that humans cannot differentiate between level matched solid state amps

I'm with ya

Like someone recently posted silver cables have to sound better than copper I've actually tried that comparison myself. No other comment needed
post #5249 of 5375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I'm with ya

Like someone recently posted silver cables have to sound better than copper I've actually tried that comparison myself. No other comment needed

Thanks, and before anyone asks, I own and use an Emotiva XPA-5. Bought it just to see for myself if it would make a difference (and because amps are so manly). It's a good value for money, particularly if one is looking to see what an amp does or doesn't do within a system - whether it's better, the same, or worse than more expensive amps isn't possible for me to say, though I'm of the opinion that if run within operating spec, it wouldn't be an audible difference.

Having had the XPA hooked up to both a Pio 94 and now a Denon A100, I'm comfortable in saying it isn't making any difference, positively or negatively. I should really take it out of the loop, but it does provide a nice, heavy anchor for my gear rack. Should we ever have a big earthquake in eastern PA, my rack won't be tipping over

I suspect most of us have bought a couple of items for our systems that we knew going in probably wouldn't improve sq in an audible way, but for the fun of trying out new gear - nothing wrong with that so long as we can try to stay objective post purchase.
post #5250 of 5375
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

I suspect most of us have bought a couple of items for our systems that we knew going in probably wouldn't improve sq in an audible way, but for the fun of trying out new gear

nah, none of us would ever do that

yes, I have to add my name to the list that have bought monster cables, special speaker cables, hi-priced players & even a $7000 receiver because of "pride of ownership"
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