or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread - Page 177

post #5281 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


Not able to go in detail for several days (busines meetings) but will post more toward end of the week so stay tuned

one of the updates and the easiest one to do fixes the DTS-Master audio glitches (loud pop sounds) on certain titles and also the Star Wars audio issues also with DTS-MA. this one is done by cd-r disc

the rs-232 ones from aug 2009 are specific bug fixes.

ssak can get you the updates & instructions if you PM him

Thanks - will check back. I'm loathe to risk it to be honest, given that I dont really have any problems with mine. Potentially bricking a $12k amplifier isnt very appealling.

My installer has been having an interesting time integrating an RTI control system using RS232. He's having another crack but the feedback for volume etc is hit & miss and the unit seems to immediately switch back on when turned off by RS232. He suspects its the RTI drivers. Anyone else had any success / trouble integrating the Susano with a control system?
post #5282 of 5378
When moving my sc-09tx I stepped on one of the speaker wires which were plugged in via banana plugs into the speaker terminals. This stupid action on my part caused both the red and black terminals to snap off right at the wiring hole on the post. My question is: Have any of you ever replaced a terminal and if so, how difficult is it to do? Sending the receiver out and waiting to get it back could take some time I'm being told. No internal damage was done cause I connected the posts with two clips and the speaker works fine. I would like to fix it myself if it is not a big deal. Does anyone know the part name and number for these post? Thanks for any help.
post #5283 of 5378
Seeking advice from the mavens.

Anyone here using multichannel analogue inputs?

I just bought a Cambridge Audio 751BD, connected with 8x analogue plus HDMI for video.

I set the speaker distances & volume trim in the player using a sound meter app and put the amp into Analogue Direct mode but I'm wondering, if I use Direct mode (as opposed to pure direct) what exactly does the amp do with the sound? I see that the phase control lights come on etc but is the amp then applying delay to the speakers as well as the player? Can I use THX modes with the analogue inputs?

Just trying to get my head around whether I'm better when using this player to just use Analogue Direct with settings in the player or set the player to default (no delays etc) and use the amp for speaker set up etc?

Here's a bit of AV porn as part-payment ; )



Attachment 247630



Attachment 247631



Attachment 247632
LL
LL
LL
post #5284 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by damienbuckley View Post

I set the speaker distances & volume trim in the player using a sound meter app and put the amp into Analogue Direct mode but I'm wondering, if I use Direct mode (as opposed to pure direct) what exactly does the amp do with the sound? I see that the phase control lights come on etc but is the amp then applying delay to the speakers as well as the player? Can I use THX modes with the analogue inputs?

Is there a particularly good reason why you are using multichannel analog connections? Phase Control and THX processing (among other things) operate in the digital domain, hence require redigitization of your multichannel analog signals. And that likely defeats the purpose of what you are trying to accomplish.

AJ
post #5285 of 5378
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post


Is there a particularly good reason why you are using multichannel analog connections? Phase Control and THX processing (among other things) operate in the digital domain, hence require redigitization of your multichannel analog signals. And that likely defeats the purpose of what you are trying to accomplish.

AJ

Yeah, the Cambridge 751BD is head & shoulders above the LX90 in audio quality when using the analogue outs. If you're not familiar with it, it uses the same Wolfson DAC's but has a Sharc DSP & upsamples all channels. I've had the same experience with my 740C cd player. I can hear a BIG difference switching between digital/analogue connections with the CD player. Havent had much chance to play with the 751BD yet so cant draw the same conclusion - just wondered if I was best to go pure direct as I do with the cd player.

I've been using my Panasonic bluray player with HDMI for about 3-4 years so I'm not new to it but the 751BD is a significant upgrade and the only real value it has over other players is its built-in audio quality - which for the most part you lose if you pipe it out via HDMI & let the LX90 do the business.

You've pretty much answered the question though - when using analogue to stick to Pure (Analogue) Direct. Just wondered if others had tried similar setups?
post #5286 of 5378
Try with a good digital coaxial or glass toslink cable..

Atlas Mavros, AudioQquest Eagle Eye or Hawk Eye and Wireworl's Star light and Silver StarLight just to name a few..

HDMI is surely not the best for audio...
post #5287 of 5378
I am looking to get the dts bomb fixed in my sc09. Does Pioneer have the update to correct this?
post #5288 of 5378
^^^

yes...
post #5289 of 5378
I called up pioneer and mention that I believe my receiver has the DTS bomb, and I was told that they never heard of this. I was told to take my receiver in to get it checked out to see what is going on. Has anyone had their sc09 updated, and fixed free of the dts bomb by Pioneer?
post #5290 of 5378
Thread Starter 
^^
and the person you talked to at Pioneer doesn't know what they are talking about or doesn't know what you are talking about rolleyes.gif

the "bomb" audio glitch is fixed with this firmware: DSP1FLASH314
the actual file name, unzipped, is: f16M3014sc5x.wav

you could take it to an auth service center & let them up-date all the firmware, including this latest DSP flash, or have them just update this one, or try to DIY.

Be aware that the latest FW package available to service centers is a zip file, released in Aug 2009, named SC09_081909.zip, but as of last Oct-Nov, it does not contain the latest DSP flash. The version of DSP1 flash in that zip file is 3.012, so you also need to have them get the DSP1 version 3.014 from Pioneer.

diy - for the DSP flash, it requires going into the service menu, and having a compatible CD or universal DVD player, like the 59avi,79avi, and there are others we've found that work. Some may have tried BD players but my advice is to go back in this thread to the Oct-Dec time frame for posts. We all were doing it about that time. you have to burn the file as a wav file to a CDR.

for the total update, you also need the installation program, ufu.exe, and use rs-232 connection to the SC-09 to update each sub-system. the instructions are in the service manual.

If you want to attempt DIY, please PM forum member "hkan" and he can help you out (files, instructions). I also have the instructions, cut from the pdf service menu. But he has a web site and can make it all available to you for download. He has helped some of us do this. it isn't hard, but if you are not comfortable with rs-232, going into the service menu, etc...

...best to take it to a service center and let them do it. actually, that is my advice smile.gif

but be sure to tell them to specifically get the DSP1 flash file 3.014 in addition to the normal update file, or you will be wasting your time.

And being an owner, Pioneer will not send you the files. They will tell you to take it to service center for the updates.

There is nothing electronically wrong with your SC-09. The DTS-MA decoder is early code, and was supposed to strictly conform to DTS specs. All was well for a long time. However, on certain specific later titles, including the Star Wars discs, the studios & authoring houses varied from the earlier standards for encoding the DTS-MA tracks, and that creates the audio glitches and loud pops. The decoder in the SC-09 can't decode it correctly and glitches at random points in the track.
Edited by ss9001 - 6/27/12 at 5:20am
post #5291 of 5378
Big Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will take my receiver in tomorrow morning with this info handy to get updated! I want to enjoy all my movies without that pop!!!

It is hard to watch a movie without having to worry about bombs that don't belong in the movie......

I have a oldie but goodie set-up:

Boston Acoustics:

VR12 center
VR975 fronts powered/passive subs
VrMX rears
2 VR 2000 subs
Oppo BDP93
Pioneer Kuro pro110
Pioneer Sc09 (of course)
post #5292 of 5378
Thread Starter 
no problem smile.gif
post #5293 of 5378
Great news!!!!! got my sc09 back today from the service center updated with DSPflash1 3.014. 2 trouble movies in and no bombs..... Funny, Pioneer USA didn't have the update. They had to get the update from Pioneer in japan. Just the same, I am very happy now, so once again Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #5294 of 5378
Thread Starter 
^^
Congratulations! Glad it worked out for you.
post #5295 of 5378
I thought I would post my original inquiry here too , in case the SC09 experts know... copy/paste from BDP09 thread...

Anyways, I have a question for the experts, how do I propertly connect my BDP-09FD bluray player to the SC-09TX flagship receiver??? I know people are talking about using both outlets and running audio through one and video through another, but is there a "best" way to do this??? Like I notice on the bdp09 there are 7 unbalanced component outlets, is there of connecting it through that somehow that is even better than HDMI ??? I am fairly new at this so any advise would be appreciated. Running currently through one HDMI cable. BDP 09 to SC09 to PRO-151HD... if there is a better was like connecting bdp-09 to pro151 video and audio to sc09 please let me know, I would really appreciate it. I looked through the forums on both owners threads and could not find a definitive "best" way, hoping someone knows this 1...
post #5296 of 5378
^^^

the "best" way to do this is also the simplest way...

one hdmi connection from bdp to sc... that's it...

conveniently, this is the way you already have it set up... smile.gif
post #5297 of 5378
Firmware update questions.
All, I am curious to see if anyone else here has tried to update the firmware with a computer cd drive through a sound card that has digital out? From what I can see this update is carried out by playing an audio stream through a digital input on the SC-09. I have been having all sorts of trouble trying to find an older disk player with digital out. Can anyone tell me the difference in the players recomended and the ones confirmed not to work? I always thought digital was all the same with just 1's and 0's?

Trying to figure out a way to do this here in Ottawa. I do have a BDP-05 but have not tried that yet.
post #5298 of 5378
I'm taking my SC-09 back into the service center for a second time to update the firmware. The first time was about 4 months ago to solve the DTS-HD Bomb problem, but they only updated it to 3.12 not 3.14, so when I brought it back home it still had the same DTS problem. I'm not too familiar with updating the receiver myself, so I'm allowing the service center to perform the updates. When I spoke with pioneer about 2 other issues I'm having, they said they don't think there is an update to solve that problem or that 3.14 might just fix those problems.

Here's my other issues:

1. My fan runs "almost" constantly. It's not that big of a deal, but I can hear it running and it can be a bit annoying. Is this normal? I have the SC-09 on it's own stand without anything above or on the side of it. Sometimes, the fan will click on the moment I turn on the receiver. The fan may stop running, but only for a few seconds and it starts right back up again. At times, I'll just turn off my receiver and turn it back on and maybe that will stop the fan from running for a short time. The room is a climate controlled environment, so I don't believe it should be running so often. Like I said, not a big deal, just thought I'd ask.

2. I have an LG BH200 and have it connected via HDMI to the SC-09 Receiver. Everything works great, except when I'm attempting to play any HD-DVD with Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), it sends PCM 192kHz Stereo to the receiver not DD+. I have the LG completely updated and set to bitstream the audio. The worst part, there is no actual audio, just a terrible motorboat noise coming from my speakers. Very loud! It's only on Dolby Digital Plus from the LG BH200, and only when I play HD-DVD's. I tried the LG BH200 connected to another receiver and DD+ works perfectly, so I don't think it's the player. Do any of you know if there is an update for the SC-09 to fix this issue?

Thanks!
post #5299 of 5378
I am a long time lurker on this thread, but have never seen anyone with this problem: My SC-09TX will shut off after about 2 hours into a movie (7.1 analog inputs) with the message "Fan Stop" and then the little LED next to the Ice Power logo will flash. I have taken the unit into an authorized Pioneer repair shop, but they were unable to duplicate the problem. They said they left the unit on for 3 weeks and everything functioned normally (yes, it took forever to get the unit back from them!). The unit worked properly for about a month after this, and I could hear the fans turn on high when they needed to, but now the problem has returned, and I never hear the fans turn on to high. Has anyone ever had this problem? Any suggestions? Please help!
post #5300 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pogal View Post

I do have a BDP-05 but have not tried that yet.

no, no just 1's & 0's wink.gif

its the drive that matters. from the SC-09 service manual:

"Please use DVD player based on MTK system (DV-270, 370, 373, 575K, 280, 380, 383, etc. ) ,Mitsubishi system (DV-59AVi, 868AVi, S969AVi, 668AVi, etc. ) or Fujitsu system (DV-343, 444, 545, etc.) DO NOT use DVD player based on ST system (DV-353, 454, 250, 400, 555K, 260, 363, 464, 466, 563, etc. ) The factory confirmed that DVD players based on ST system cannot send the correct data to the VSX unit using the update disc. You can check the base system of our DVD players on the firmware version list at PSN web"

that said, if you check back to the Sept - Jan time frame in this thread and I think the other Ice model threads about same time, you'll find posts from people who managed to update using other players. I don't recall which ones were used. And IIRC, some were able to use a Pio Blu-ray player but don't hold me to that. It was nearly a yr ago when all this was being discussed. if the AVR can't interpret the data, I don't think it'll update so the chances of bricking it are low but you do this at your own risk. No one here is responsible just in case smile.gif

and I hope you know that CD-R is only for 1 of the FW updates, fortunately the most important one that fixes the dts ma glitches. all the others use the rs232 port and a special interface program named ufu.exe. check with user Hkan for these updates...he posted them on a special website back then.
post #5301 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jugglebob View Post

When I spoke with pioneer about 2 other issues I'm having, they said they don't think there is an update to solve that problem or that 3.14 might just fix those problems.
Here's my other issues:
1. My fan runs "almost" constantly. It's not that big of a deal, but I can hear it running and it can be a bit annoying. Is this normal? I have the SC-09 on it's own stand without anything above or on the side of it. Sometimes, the fan will click on the moment I turn on the receiver. The fan may stop running, but only for a few seconds and it starts right back up again. At times, I'll just turn off my receiver and turn it back on and maybe that will stop the fan from running for a short time. The room is a climate controlled environment, so I don't believe it should be running so often. Like I said, not a big deal, just thought I'd ask.
2. I have an LG BH200 and have it connected via HDMI to the SC-09 Receiver. Everything works great, except when I'm attempting to play any HD-DVD with Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), it sends PCM 192kHz Stereo to the receiver not DD+. I have the LG completely updated and set to bitstream the audio. The worst part, there is no actual audio, just a terrible motorboat noise coming from my speakers. Very loud! It's only on Dolby Digital Plus from the LG BH200, and only when I play HD-DVD's. I tried the LG BH200 connected to another receiver and DD+ works perfectly, so I don't think it's the player. Do any of you know if there is an update for the SC-09 to fix this issue?
Thanks!

FW update 3.14 for DSP Flash 1 is the one that fixes DTS-MA problems. What you were told by a Pioneer CSR is consistent with other instances of lack of knowledge or misinformation. There most definitely is and it does, Star Wars BD glitches included.

1. Fan..have no idea. Mine runs nearly all the time, usually at a very low speed & barely audible. I don't pay any attention to it since I can't hear it from 4-5ft away wink.gif and I think it's supposed to run all the time - it's an integral part of the heat rejection system since there are no amp heat sinks per se except the steel plate bottom & it has to both draw air across the amp board plus cool the hot video board at the top that has the HDMI chips and circuitry. Unless you're having amp protection shutoff problems or it's loud, I wouldn't worry about it. It is what it is. On but very low speed is what its supposed to do when cold. It will speed up when it gets warm.

There's a fan in the new SC-68 and it's on all the time from the gitgo and it's even louder so be happy wink.gif

2. I do recall issues about DD+ with certain AVR's or players, not even sure if any Pioneers were involved but I've owned the 09 since it 1st came out and never had one problem playing any HD-DVD with DD+ and I have quite a few still in my collection, using a Tosh XA2 player. It's possible some older Pioneer players were effected but don't take that to the bank. I just can't remember, sorry.

IF I recall, your LG player was unique being the only dual BD/HD-DVD player made so that may be a contributing factor.
You said it's updated to the latest so not sure what more you can do. One more thing, you said you only get PCM stereo - that is strange because the player or receiver should be decoding it as core Dolby Digital w/o the plus extension if they can't decode it. As a work-around, your fix is to have the player decode and send it as PCM to the receiver, not bitstream. The 09 will take the decoded 5.1 PCM stream and play it.

Light bulb moment - I do recall there was a DD+ problem with some Sony PS models & some receivers, maybe even with Pioneers.

Another option is shop for someone selling a Toshiba on ebay, this forum's classified ads, craigslist, etc. I highly recommend the flagship XA2 but the A3 was also a good spinner that came after the XA2. I still have a 1st gen XA1 in a box if you're interested wink.gif I held onto it too long redface.gif

on SC-09 firmware -
I have the whole pkg of SC-09 FW updates from Aug 2009 & DSP Flash 3.14 and according to the read me files, none say anything about DD+. AFAIK, it's not been a problem with the SC-09 nor is there any "fix" for it. Since I've never had problems with bitstreaming DD+ and having the 09 decode it, it's possible there's a specific player incompatibility with your LG similar to the Sony Playstation issue.

I would make sure you're 09 is updated to the latest pkg of FW's anyway. You can take it to a service center or try to DIY but I caution you on the DIY, it's not hard but it is involved and requires instructions from the svc manual, a launch software utility, going into the service menu and being capable of using rs-232 which modern PC's lack, altho you can use a USB-serial converter. Go back to posts from Sept - Nov 2011 if you want to read what some of us did and what's involved. At the this stage, my advice is take it to a auth shop smile.gif But if you do, like the other poster, specifically tell them to get DSP Flash 3.14 because the Aug 2009 package has 3.12 which will not resolve specific DTS-MA noise glitches found on certain discs.
Edited by ss9001 - 11/9/12 at 5:16am
post #5302 of 5378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AT-AT Driver View Post

I am a long time lurker on this thread, but have never seen anyone with this problem: My SC-09TX will shut off after about 2 hours into a movie (7.1 analog inputs) with the message "Fan Stop" and then the little LED next to the Ice Power logo will flash. I have taken the unit into an authorized Pioneer repair shop, but they were unable to duplicate the problem. They said they left the unit on for 3 weeks and everything functioned normally (yes, it took forever to get the unit back from them!). The unit worked properly for about a month after this, and I could hear the fans turn on high when they needed to, but now the problem has returned, and I never hear the fans turn on to high. Has anyone ever had this problem? Any suggestions? Please help!

From the service manual -
Fan Stop message occurs & ILink LED flashes - "When an abnormality is detected in the fans for the AMP, SMPS, or transformer."

This means what it says, so your shop may not have resolved the condition or fan problem. The only advice I can give is take it back to them before any warranty on their work expires. Intermittent problems are a *itch for shops to find & even if they left it on for 3 weeks, if they didn't stress it by loading the amps or watch any video thru the HDMI board, they may have missed the boat. Ask them to replace the fans, and double check with Pioneer on specific circuitry issues. You may be in for a circuit board replacement, hopefully not the amp board itself since that is a big ticket item. All you can do is take it back & see what they can find. The amp board, switching power supply or transformer itself may be involved according to the manual so be prepared frown.gif Hopefully, it's just the fans. But I have no other suggestions, sorry redface.gif

I personally have never seen this error message or can recall any poster who has. But it's clear that there's something not right about your 09 but I have no idea what it can be - even tho I have the service manual for information purposes, I'm not a electrical technician.
post #5303 of 5378
Thread Starter 
I'd just like to add that I'm glad there's still some around who own this model but sorry that the recent posters are having problems. I can only provide some guidance not firm answers for these problems & hope they turn out not to be major repairs smile.gif
post #5304 of 5378
Thanks for your help. Hopefully it's just the fans...
post #5305 of 5378
Thank you so much for responding to my post. I'm glad to see others are still using this model receiver as well. I absolutely love it! I figured the fan was normal, I just thought I'd ask. As far as the LG BH200, I do believe it's a compatibility issue with playing DD+ HD-DVD"s specific to the LG BH200 and the SC-09. I own the HD-XA2, and the toshiba works perfectly when playing DD+ HD-DVD's with the SC-09. No strange noise or audio drop-outs like my SC-05 had before it was updated. I also have the HD-A35, but prefer the XA2.

Funny thing, I still have an HD-XA1 that is still in the box as well. I kind of bought it as a collectable years ago and never decided to open it. I figured I'd keep it sealed at this point. I also have an HD-A1, so I figured the XA1 would be similar. Either way, the LG does work perfectly when I allow the player to decode the DD+ and allow the SC-09 to play PCM 5.1, like you advised. I just thought I'd see if anyone knew of an update to fix the incompatibility issue. I posted the same question on the LG BH200 thread a few years ago, but no one knew how to solve the issue other than send PCM audio. I figured I'd ask since I'm taking the receiver in for a second update and would save time telling the service center if anyone knew of an additional update.

The DTS-HD Bomb when playing movies like Star Wars is the biggest issue I'd like the update the fix. Yes, I'll be taking the SC-09 to the service center and allow them to perform the update. Thanks for the info on how to perform a DIY update, but I don't really trust myself. The first time I took it in, I didn't know to check for the firmware DSP #. Since they only updated the receiver to 3.12, I was still having the same problems. Now that I'm aware, I'll make sure to tell them to update the 09 to DSP Flash 3.14. I'll also make sure to check the DSP # before I take the receiver home. I greatly appreciate the response, thanks!
post #5306 of 5378
I've got the fan stop error on my sc-09tx as well. It happens around an hour into playing, it seems like it's entirely temperature dependent, if the room is cooler, the unit will stay on longer. I don't turn on the receiver now for fear that it might be damaged more.

Anyways, the service manual has a fan test that I am contemplating running and experimentIng with, but I'm nervous to remove the case. I figure I'd need to remove tHe case to fully evaluate if the fans are running. I sure hope it's the fans...

Did you ever take your receiver into service?

Good luck to you!

Nathan

Ps my system specs are all pioneer (sc-09tx, bdp 95fd, kuro 151, and klipsch thx ultra 2 9.2 speaker setup)
post #5307 of 5378
i can't recall the "fan stop" error ever popping up before either steve... and i agree with your interpretation of the service manual there...

other comments:

a) when i had mine, the fans ran, and it had significant clearance.... while the ice amps ran reasonably cool, the "rest of the avr" made significant heat, and i would hazard a guess that the fans are preventative measures against thermal disaster for all those microchips in there...

b) @jugglebob... i would use the same workaround for the dts-hd bomb as you did for the dd+ issue... i wouldn't go through the hassle of dragging the avr in for a firmware update for that... but that's me...
post #5308 of 5378
I spoke to the repair shop again about the "Fan Stop" issue. The technician said it could simply be static electricity causing the problem. He suggested I unplug it for at least 5 hours, or possibly resetting the receiver to factory default settings. Sure enough, after doing that, it is working fine again. I can hear the fans kicking into high when they need to, whereas before I couldn't hear the fans at all. Hopefully that will take care of the problem, but I'm skeptical. Why does this keep happening? I don't even touch the receiver most of the time. I use the remote...
post #5309 of 5378
Nathan,

Cool system you have
post #5310 of 5378
AT-AT Driver,
Did you reset it the 09 to factory or unplug it for 5 hours? Or both? I guess I'll try both, I don't have anything to loose before taking it in for service.

Wse,
Thanks, I like it too!

Nathan
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Pioneer SC-09TX/SC-LX90 Owner's Thread