CM-7000 (S-Video) VS Tivax STB-T1 (Component)

Maybe so, but by using the component outs, the Samsung will have an edge in PQ, even with your SDTV. I own a Samsung 260, and for watching 16:9 programs, I prefer it over my CECB (an Insignia). My TV (a Sony SD 27" WEGA) is similar to yours in terms of inputs.
I cannot comment on either of the CECBs you've mentioned, but I can say that the 260 has a better program guide then any currently available CECB.
Another advantage of the 260 is that you can utilize an unused input on your TV, leaving the rest free for other items, like a second tuner, DVD player, etc.

In regards to S-Video vs Composite - I cannot see a difference in PQ on my TV when I hook up my DVD player using those methods. Probably depends on your TV more than anything.

The Tivax STB-T1 is not a CECB. As you know, it doesn't qualify because, among other things, it has component video and digital audio outputs. Yes, you will see better quality using component video. S-video is little more than upscale composite video. Also, unlike any of the CECB's, you will be able to take advantage of the Dolby 5.1 signal that's encoded into DTV.

I don't know much about the Tivax yet but I will soon enough as I have one on order. In the meantime, there are huge threads on the STB-T9 and CM-7000 CECB's if you want to wade through them.

Why not grab a Hisense DB2010 tuner from ebay for $30-80 (depends on whether brand new or not). It has Component (480p to 1080i), S-video, Compsite video and digital optical out and a very good EPG (with program description, storyline etc)?

Here's a link to a thread Don started and I posted on as well. I believe Don's hoping for his T1 this weekend and I was told mid next week for the LX1000. I don't know a lot about the LX1000 yet, but should know much more by next weekend. My Sony is also SD and has component inputs too. I will be using the S-video out to run to a DVDR and am hoping to get better PQ than the standard composite CECB.
I had the Sammy 260 for a while and did notice better PQ via it's S-out vs. a CECB, but had second thoughts on it's $170 price. I also didn't like that it didn't have a display. Looks like both the Tivax units come with a display, just not their CECB, T9.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1026209

Hi ota.dt.man,

Generally speaking, I think you get a better picture using component over s-video. Even though both bypass the comb filter, I think the second chrominance signal makes a difference. Maybe it's my imagination.

If the CM-7000 had digital audio, I could easily live with the s-video but it's not worth the little bit of savings to give up the sound quality. I'll probably order in a CM for the bedroom TV if nothing better shows up before my coupons expire.

I should have the Tivax by the weekend. Even though it's not a CECB, I'll post a review in this forum in case others may be looking for non-crippleware.

Wow, that looks like a very good option too.

Yes I did. The Sammy is not very handy unless you have a display with component inputs since it only displays On screen information to the Component or HDMI output. I used the S-video to feed my DVDR. Truthfully I couldn't tell a lot of difference on my 24" SD Sony Wega between the S-video and component, but on my 32" HD LCD Panny the component and HDMI outputs looked as good as the HD tuner built into my Panny. Much better than either composite or S-video.
I could however notice a improvement between composite and S-video with the Sony. If you have a larger display you might be able to tell a bigger difference between the S-video and component on your SD TV.

Component is better than composite, but the comparison between the 260 and the Insignia is as much about receiver quality, not just the outputs.

To do a fair comparison of outputs, I'd have to use a machine that has all types of outputs and see which works best. My DVD player has all three (S-video, Component and Composite) and with it I've found that the Component looks best, and the composite and S-video are about the same.

It indeed provides 480i over component, s-video and RCA Composite video. Also as n4yqt mentioned, if you can get the Samsung DTB260F for < $99, it's a better option, because it also has HDMI (I think) and QAM tuner too and I guess has a scheduler too. I don't have the DTB260F. I bought my Hisense DB2010 from the same person marsman (and I guess most of the avs'ers too got it from him) for about $50 one year back. The picture quality is really good.. and the OTA recording using the s-video output is near DVD like. I don't have a component input in my DVD recorder, else it would have been DVD quality totally. You can add channels without erasing the present channel list and it also has signal strength meter OSD and other nice goodies.
You can also view the hisense tuner sitting below my Sammy DVD recorder in my OTA setup picture in my signature.

Re the Samsung DTB-H260F:


Not completely. Doing a full channel scan does indeed erase the previous channel list. You can add channels individually. However, the instruction book omits a crucial detail. When you want to add an individual channel, you must use the physical channel number that the digital signal is on, not the virtual channel number which matches the station's analog channel number.

For example, my nearest NBC station has its analog signal on channel 4, and of course everybody here knows it by that channel number. Its digital signal is currently on channel 59. If I need to add it individually to my Samsung's channel list, I have to enter "59" not "4". If the unit picks up a usable signal, it extracts the virtual channel number from the data stream, memorizes it, and the on-screen display changes from "59-1" to "4-1". Thereafter, I can tune to it by entering either "4" or "59". I've done this sort of thing many times.

There is a small catch that you have to watch out for. The example I gave above would not work if my Samsung already knew about a virtual channel 59. In that case, entering "59" would simply take me to that channel instead of looking a signal on physical channel 59. I would have to make sure to add my "channel 4" (59) first, and then add this other channel by entering whatever physical channel it's on.

The Hisense box pales in comparison to the Samsung and newer tuners performance-wise, as far as sensitivity and multipath handling go.

Otherwise, it has exceptional PQ and features. I'd even place it up there with the old LG's and Sony's, PQ-wise (better than the H260F, for sure).

I had one briefly, and it wasn't even as sensitive as some of the other 4th generation chipset receivers that I've ever owned. No better than average for that generation, I'd say.

Good tuner, but unless you have a reasonably favorable reception situation to begin with, I probably wouldn't recommend it. It's very outdated, RQ-wise.

Hi Otaguy,

I did A/B comparisons some years back between s-video and component video on a 32" tube. The difference is subtle. Not at all like the huge difference between optical audio and RCA patch cord audio.

There's a good, professional review of the Samsung 260 on the net done by someone like HDTV Magazine where the guy tests reception, etc. It's easy to find by googling. This reviewer doesn't seem to find any of the problems that you find posted by many of the user reviewers who may have been having a bad (under the) hair day. I may have went for the Samsung but I'm boycotting their products due to experience in dealing with them over the last 15 months about one of their "award winning" refrigerators. Samsung definitely doesn't have their act together.

One thing I would wonder about the Hisense unit is the "generation" of it since it's so old. I understand that makes a huge difference in performance.

I don't even know the generation of the Tivax I ordered but I'm hoping it's more modern. I attempted to find out this info from the Tivax tech support but modern tech support people don't know any more about their products than the people asking the questions. Here's what they said in response to my query about the tuner and generation. "The unit uses a off the shelf tuner uses in many devices." Duh! My other questions were equally well answered but I suspected that would be the case before I asked and had already ordered the unit to get my own answers.

Hisense DB2010 may not be the best tuner in the market and may not be as good as the newer 6th gen tuner which has gone through the FCC mandated field tests, but if your reception conditions are equal or better than mine, you can consider it. I use indoor directional amplified antenna (about 10dB gain - Terk HDTVa). I get all the signals which I get in my Olevia LCD tuner and Zenith DTT900. All my signals are 10-20 degree apart and within 35 miles and almost in the same direction. tvfool lists the signal strength as -50dBm to -65dBm. I am in the 2nd floor of the apartment and there are lot of trees surrounding my apartments. I don't get channel 61 (WNET 13.x) owing to low signal level it's at -77dBm. I guess lot of multi path problems can be eliminated if the antenna you are using has a very directional pattern. Check the hdtvprimer.com to find the antenna's directional chart and gains for different channels. I didn't want to spend $170 for a dedicated tuner one year back. Now there are more options like CM-7000 which can be better option for fringe area/multi-path reception and given that it has 6th gen tuner and it's coupon eligible. The point I am trying to make is, if you have favourable condition, you can as well try the cheapo hisense box, with optical digital out. But I'd rather buy a upconversion DVD recorder with digital tuner built in (you can get them refurbished for <$100, philips or samsung) then spending more than $100 on a dedicated tuner.

Now THAT is a great post with some meat in it kousikb. I'm feeling much more comfortable with the digital dBm projections TV Fool gives me for my coordinates. My dBm's will drop down to a range between -38 and -60. Good have some real confirmation it will probably work out well for me. Thanks.

Otaman,

It's a plain ol' SD tube.

Samsung is great if nothing ever breaks. My nearly 3 year old DVDR is still in fine shape.

Samsung is also great after you learn to speak Samsungese. It's all very easy once you learn their language and realize:
(1) nothing they ever tell you will ever happen as they say
(2) 3-5 business days is 4-6 business weeks in Samsungville
(3) the first two times they ship out parts, the parts will be wrong

Thankfully, I'm almost done with them. Three weeks ago they authorized a refund for the purchase price of my 2 year old refrigerator in exchange for never having to deal with me again. I expect to see the check within 4-6 business months.

Do any of the big box stores carry the cm-7000 or is it only available online ?
Thanks in advance
Owenf

I used a 27" Sony Wega. Like one of the above posters said, the difference was subtle. However, it is enough to make me prefer the 260 over my Insignia. I suppose if the difference is visible on a 27" TV, it would only become more obvious with a bigger screen.

In hindsight however, if the Insignia was available at the time I bought the Samsung, I doubt I would have justified the >$100 price difference. The difference in PQ on an SDTV isn't worth that.