Gain more from speakers or receivers?

Most definitely you will gain the biggest benefit from speakers.

^^^ Agree. Quality speakers will by far make the biggest noticeable improvement. Even a crummy receiver/amp usually sounds decent at lower volumes.

You don't need floorstanding speakers for the back/side surround channels, though. You might want to provide a little more info about what you have in mind.

Getting something so it can handle the "uncompressed audio formats" isn't the right reason to upgrade.

Some people are big fans of the room correction features on some receivers, though.

Another vote for speakers.

It's advisable to match the front three; all identical would be best, but keeping in the same series is also good. This creates a seamless front soundstage where most of the sound comes from. Not so crucial to match the surrounds. Getting nice matching front L, C, and R and using the Celestions for the rear is quite doable.

Yup, front 3 are the only 3 that you really need to match


+1

The speakers are effectively what will define the "sound" of the system. However, to say that the receiver (the amplifier section specifically) is not as important shows a lack of understanding in how the amplifier and speaker interact.

To put it bluntly, if you obtain new speakers which your current receiver cannot adequately drive, there is a reasonable chance you may end up damaging both the receiver and your shiny new speakers. I suspect the sound in that instance wouldn't exactly be awe inspiring either...

Set aside $350 for the Yamaha RXV663 and spend the rest of your budget on speakers.

He asked a general question, and I gave a general answer. Dollar for dollar, he will see a higher net gain by putting the money toward speakers and keeping his current receiver (and upgrading it later) than he will by putting it toward a receiver and keeping his current speakers. The capabilities of his currect receiver (watts, nominal impedance, etc.) will be a factor in what speakers he selects in which to invest said money.

^A very good recommendation.

Of course, you could also invest heavily into the best speakers possible now, and then upgrade your receiver in a few months once you save money or have approval from the spouse.

I would recommend first actually going out and listening to *systems* that you can comfortably afford, and maybe a few that you can't to get an idea of what is out there. Pick the system that your wallet and ears can both agree on; listen and enjoy.

I would specifically recommend against buying a receiver without regard to what speakers you might end up with and vice versa.

I'd say he asked a question that deserved, if not required and answer better than "Most definitely you will gain the biggest benefit from speakers." The simple fact that you acknowledge the the capabilities of his receiver will be a factor (and a pretty significant one at that) in what speakers he selects should be proof of that.

receivers and speakers have ZERO relationship. No one needs to listen to a receiver before they buy it, just look at the specs of the receiver and buy it if it fits your needs (add amps as needed too). I own 6 receivers right now from 5 different manufactures, I have own more then 20 and I can gurantee they are a dime a dozen! Its just silly to think a reciever is actually tied to any speakers, NO science in that whatsoever!

The Yahama V663 is the best available AVR currently on the market $$$/performance wise. This summer Pioneer and Sony will have new receivers out that will match it.

Of course the OP posted the same question in TWO forums and this isnt the receiver forum so back to the speakers......

Speakers can be very time consuming in choosing though because the the different sounds they make.

Keep your receiver upgrade you speakers then updgrade your receiver, then go separate to get better amps.

False. Completely and utterly. I'm not saying that the OP needs to buy a Mark Levinson to drive a relatively benign speaker, but to say that they have 0 relationship is outright ignorance.



If you say so....



There is little or nothing on a spec sheet that will tell me how a receiver will handle a speaker rated for eight ohms, with drops down to three ohms and spikes up to a hundred ohms, with lovely phase angles to match. Listening on the other hand makes it pretty clear.



I'm not saying that if you own speaker X, you must buy receiver Y. I'm saying that if you're buying a speaker which is difficult to drive, you'd better buy a receiver that can get the job done, or you're going to be buying more of both in the future.


If amplification is all the same, why upgrade to get better amps? Why not just get a cheap Pioneer with support for the latest gizmos and be done with it?

This article does a reasonable job at summing my position, and why I think its asinine to ignore the receiver/amplifier.

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/spkramp.html

I would also quote:

"Ultimately, the only way to be absolutely certain of the ability of an amplifier to mate with a given speaker, is to try it."

Of course but that is not what you posted.

The specs WILL TELL you if the receiver can drive the speakers you own meaning you do not need to worry about receivers when buying speakers.

Also I have yet to find a receiver that couldnt drive normal speakers talked about daily on here..

Here is a list of speakers I currently own.

Rocket RS450s
Klipsch RB81s
Onix Ref .5s
Ascend HTM200
Emotiva ERM-1
Polk, NXG, BIC, Klipsch in-ceiling (22 pairs).

My receivers

yahama V2500
Emotiva LMC-1 (pre/pro with outlaw monoblock)
Yahama V663
Denon 3805
Pioneer VSX-816
HK av210



so the range is all over the place and I have no problem driving any speaker with any receiver....

HONESTLY the OP will be buying more or less a similar speaker I own so lets just use some common sense and not debate that receivers are really going to matter.

What will matter is simply how much amps he will need but AS I posted that comes afterwards when he add separate amps because I would never buy an AVR and actually worry about he amps it produces period. If someone wants power, they should simply buy separate amps because overall they are better and their overall $$$ will be less then wasting it on an expensive AVR with crappy power still!

btw, that article doesnt really support your position and again there is NO RELATIONSHIP between specific receivers and specific speakers and the quote isnt scientific at all so I call it dumb placebo stuff.

We listen to speakers, find the right speakers THEN we go find the adequate power for them. You are saying we need to worry about the receiver during the testing and Im saying that is simply bogus! Actually its customer OVERLOAD so lets just call it stupid.

Thanks for the laugh

You are aware that there are amp challenges out there that will pay lots of $$$ if you can truely tell the difference between amp A and amp B ??

Also you are aware the challenge has never been won, arent you?

If you dont believe it to be true then get involved with proper blind tests and do some. You will be amazed what you find out and you will be even more amazed that the true science is validated and placebo effects disappear.

Amps "mate" with speakers...lol .....Other then Watts and distortion what makes amps audiably different?

You might have interpreted my commentary in your own way, but I stand by everything that I posted on this thread.


Are you forcing the OP to buy your speakers? You have no clue what he will buy, nor can you predict how robust of an amplifier it will take to drive them at this juncture.


So then the receiver does matter if he doesn't want to buy a separate amp...


Actually, I'd say it pretty well does support my position. It says that you need to match the capabilities of your receiver/amplifier to the demand of your speakers. I'm not sure what you're interpreting my comments to read, but thats basically it.



So there is a relationship! Whatever speakers the OP obtains will need adequate power!!!!! Now it seems to me with that statement that it would make sense to keep in mind what receiver the OP owns when he goes out looking for a speaker, presuming at he isn't interested in a separate amp, given that he has made no indication that he is interested in one....

You realize that those amp challenges have conditions, among them being that you can't strain the amplifier. Of course, I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between a cheap amp thats gone into protection and one that is still chugging along like a champ.


Current among other things.

I am curious, what you disagree with in the article I posted?

I think the point penngray was making is that 99% of today's current crop of AVRs can drive 99% of todays current crop of speakers at reasonable levels without clipping. So taking into account the other 1% with a new user is just going to complicate the matter.

But it ultimately depends on the AVR, the speaker, the room, and what kind of volume the OP expects. If you don't pay attention to these details, you're asking for trouble. That is my point. As far as I know, listening is still the best way to ensure that everything will work properly.

I personally find it unfortunate that some posters here view speakers as simple resistors and think that any 8 ohm rated receiver will drive any 8 ohm rated speaker. Reality is much more complex.

As far as that 99% figure goes...


"In general, the lower the impedance is the harder it will be for the amplifier to supply enough power to properly drive the loudspeaker. The larger the peaks are in the impedance chart, the more difficult the loudspeaker load is and the more control the amplifier will need to have over the loudspeaker to get good optimum sound. The easier the loudspeaker load, the flatter the impedance plot will be and the closer to 8 ohms it will stay. There is no one thing in the impedance curve that tells the entire story of how difficult the loudspeaker load will be, however, in general, there are a couple things to look at including: 1) The minimum impedance levels (in particular, take note of frequencies below 200Hz which many consider harder to drive than the same impedance at higher frequencies), and the size of the narrow peaks in impedance.

Many stereo and A/V receivers have the smallest power supplies on a watt-per-channel basis so they tend to perform best when connected to loudspeakers which do not go below 6 ohms and do not have large prominent impedance spikes."

Courtesy of...

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me...udspeakers.htm

Seems to me like it is still important to match the capabilities of the receiver to the speaker.

I'm well aware of speaker impedance, amplifier power, and spikes and drops in impedance and I stand by my 99% comment. A vast majority of todays AVRs can drive a vast majority of todays speakers very well at reasonable levels.

To the OPs question...
A general question as well....Dollar for dollar, where do you get the best boost in sound quality, speakers or receivers?

Best boost in sound quality comes from speakers assuming you're are in the 99% of most users. According to the specs I found on your AVR it appears stable down to 2 ohms.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/customer/faq.php

"How do I choose an amplifier/receiver?
Unfortunately, this can often be a daunting task. With the multitude of brands and options on the market today, the choices can be quite confusing. While Energy cannot recommend one brand over another, it is recommended that high quality components be used, in order to extract the most from your speakers. Due to a lack of industry standards, amplifier power ratings are difficult to compare. It is recommended to listen to the amplifier and to determine if it possesses the sound quality and power to reproduce the sounds YOU like. A lack of real power will result in driving the amplifier into "clipping", which results in audible distortion reproduced through your speakers."

Given the vast amount of crap receivers out there from the likes of Sony, JVC, Panasonic, etc as well as the number of relatively difficult to drive loudspeakers out there, I'll have to respectfully disagree.



I'd like to see that happen in the real world with a speaker, and not just a two ohm resistor for half a second.

Now that we've gone sufficiently off track, I'll try to bring it back to the question asked. Given the OPs current equipment and funds for either a new AVR or speakers, the most sonic improvement will come from speakers.

Assuming that he doesn't pick speakers that will cause his receiver to run out of steam at the volumes that he would like to listen But I suppose actually helping to educate people on these matters is beyond the scope of this forum.