What CECB is the best? And worst. Vote here. Updated tally 7/24/10 - Page 9

Even my cheapo 480i Sanyo 32" analog has component inputs. I've got the CM-7000 running into my Panny E85H through s-video, and the E85H running into the TV over component. Looks even better than the CM going straight into the TV over s-video.

Lots of the later analog sets had component inputs.

I purchased a Zenith 901 for inlaws and a CM7000 for myself. finally installed the CM last night. I noticed the audio level was lower than the other inputs as with the analog VCR and the tv's own ATSC tuner. About 20% lower, if I had to guess. Can compensate for this but I wondered if anyone had any feedback. I sure miss the TV power off/on feature the Zenith had. Noticed Consumer Reports has a review on several brands, some I've never heard of. With a couple exceptions none they mention are available in my local S. California retail outlets. I'm just wondering if I should go with the Zenith or the CM for my final digital tuner purchase? I like the S-Video feature but don't need it in all locations.

I will say this about the CM, the build quality reminds me of products you'd see a couple decades ago, far and away better construction than I'm seeing on the other brands sold locally. Even the RG6 cable that comes with it is heavy duty.

Probably most later models had them for the same reason mine did, high-quality input from a DVD player. Once DVD became common, component became a must-have checkbox feature on both ends. Freaked me out when I started seeing $30 DVD players with component out, just 2 or 3 years after I paid $400 for a Sony player just to get that feature.

I've been eyeing the CM-7000 for the Sony as you can imagine. I ended up getting an Insignia from Best Buy after crash-cramming these forums all day yesterday looking for the best "normal cost" CECB for my other, non-premium TV, and I'm pleased with it so far. Forgive my newb-ness--what's an E85H?

The Panasonic DMR-E85H is a Hard Drive/DVD recorder. The hard drive is 120GB in size. I believe that this model entered the marketplace in April or May 2004.

Let me tell you a little about myself and my setup. I'm in my 50's. I have better than 20/20 corrected vision. According to my daughter I don't always hear the turn signal blinker (it's not very loud) - but otherwise I think my hearing is typical for someone my age. I work as a scientist - so tend to look at details - but I also like to look at the big picture.

I have two TV's - a 32 Panasonic and a 20 Toshiba - both more than 5 years old with good picture quality. The large TV is hooked up to an HD Tivo. I get my TV signal from a large TV antenna (probably 20 years old) mounted on the roof of my 2 story home. The nearest transmitter is about 22 miles away in Walnut Grove, CA. I can also get some signals from the SF Bay Area - about 60 miles away.

I've read a lot of reviews of DTV converter boxes including the Consumer Reports review of the Tivax STB-T9 and Zenith DTT901. The Tivax and related DTV converter boxes got a slightly higher rating from CR based on a slightly better picture overall - although the picture was slightly distorted. I've also looked at a large number of user reviews which gave high praise to the Zenith (and related Insignia). The Zenith reportedly has better low signal sensitivity than most. However in my opinion all reviewers are so focused on tiny differences in picture quality that they are overlooking features which in the long run make you glad - or sorry - that you bought the product.

Since I needed two boxes, I decided to get one of each. After looking at the performance of both boxes for a couple of weeks I've developed to a clear preference.

Picture Quality: Both boxes output excellent picture quality. I actually prefer the Zenith because the slight distortion of the Tivax is annoying until you've watched it for a couple of minutes. Both have a picture comparable to my TIVO box which is very good using the digital broadcasts. BTW - the shielded cable output from the Zenith box is definitely better - so remember this if your TV doesn't take composite input.

Sound quality through TV speakers: Very good.

Signal sensitivity: Both boxes were more sensitive than my TIVO tuners - the Tivax found Bay Area channels 4 and 9 without turning my antenna. The Zenith found channels 2 and 9. The Zenith was definitely better holding channel 9 (60 miles from the transmitter).

Other features: This is where the differences piled up. It is the small things that make you love or hate a product.

Boot up when turning the tuner on: Zenith was a little faster. Small delays are annoying in this fast-paced world. The initial channel scan on the Zenith is much faster than the Tivax - but since this rarely used it probably is not a huge deal.

User guide: Both are limited. The Zenith can potentially provide guide information about more than one station - but it appears you have to tune through all channels first so that it downloads the info. The Zenith shows this show and the next. The Tivax shows only one channel at a time but can give show you more hours ahead.

Remote: Both are well organized and easy to use. The Tivax is more colorful and the buttons are easily seen against a silver background - but I had no trouble using either. Direct input of channels: The Zenith responded with a list of channels, e.g. 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 if you entered a 6 - so you could scroll to choose. Not a big deal, but kind of nice. The Tivax required you to enter the whole channel or would pick the first in the list if you took too long.

But the Zenith remote blew the Tivax out of the water with two big differences. First, the Zenith has a universal remote feature to turn your TV on and off. With this feature you can toss your TV remote in the drawer. Without it you need two remotes to control the TV and converter box. Second, the Zenith can be controlled by its remote from a wide range of angles. The Tivax control had to be pointed directly at it. In brief, the Zenith makes it feel like you don't have an extra appliance where the Tivax constantly reminds you that you do.

So sit back and get the Zenith. The picture will be great, you'll be able to throw your old remote in the drawer, and you won't go crazy re-pushing buttons because you didn't point the remote exactly right.

Regards
DixonAgee

Just installed a Sunkey here in Queens, NY and got 21 channels strong and clear with just a pair of rabbit ears. Getting some interference from the poorly shielded RF cable that came with it, but I'm hoping replacing that will solve the problem. I'm quite impressed with this inexpensive box. I find it very easy to use.

Sorry if this has been asked, but which CECBs support AFD? Fox is now using AFD. It looks like the Zenith DTT901 does.

What is AFD?

Active Format Description. It allows the letterbox vs center cut selection to be done automatically by the station. It requires networks and stations to send AFD which is still not widely supported yet. Fox is doing it now, NBC is planning on it, ABC is working on it and CBS thinks it might be a good idea but I haven't seen anything yet that indicates they plan to support it.

I got a DTT901 today. It does have an option for what appears to be AFD control, but it doesn't seem to have a selection of what to do when there is no AFD. What it appears to do is select letterbox in that condition. In that case the AFD is really there to indicate when 4:3 material is being sent so it can switch to center cut. The good thing is that it the selection can be made on a per channel basis.

There were stacks of the DTT901 at the Circuit City I went to today. I was tempted to ask if I could get an extended Circuit City warranty, but that might have been a bit cruel.

I know of at least one CECB that has "Automatic" aspect ratio. I'll check all my units to verify which ones.

The Sunkey SK-801ATSC and Zinwell ZAT-970A do not have capabilities for the AFD, while the APEX DT250 and DT502 do (4:3, 16:9, or Auto). I don't have the Ventura or the Digital Stream DTX-9950 in-house and would have to check with my wife's brother to get the information. When I get some more time, I'll check the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT and the RCA DTA800B1.

The APEX boxes seem to do the same (default aspect ratio) as what you are experiencing with the 901, when it comes to non-AFD stations. The APEX setting is "Global," as would be expected. They do have the ability to set a default aspect ratio of Normal, Zoom, or Fill.

My vote is for the Zenith DTT-900. Great at picking up weak signals, signals with high levels of multipath. Can get stations from 300 miles away on some nights with attic antennas. And 60 miles out, can get a 4.75 kw channel 7 DT with no problem with a VHF antenna in the attic, near a river valley.

I have a CM-7000 and have used the DTT901. Both have internal audio volume attenuators that can be used to adjust volume to (for example) match levels from a DVD player. As I recall, the CM-7000 came with its volume set to about 70 (out of 100). Have you tried turning that up?

I recommend both units. They have metal cases that beat most other units. The CM-7000 has PQ that's a bit better when using S-video, plus it uses more compatible remote codes, and of course it has a better program guide. The DTT901 has RF pass-thru, plus a better remote, and it seems more polished and user-friendly. Both have very good reception, but I have been impressed by how the CM-7000 seems to hold channels even when reception conditions are marginal.

When I retire in a couple of years, I'll join the "flat screen HDTV satellite TIVO" scene, but I travel on my job so much now, I just use 3 analog TVs hooked up to VCRs to get the all the broadcast shows I really need.

I started with a DTVPal because it was the only one with a timer that could switch channels, but if you read the DTVPal thread you'll see why it gets some "worst" votes with firmware problems and clock glitches, etc.

I got a Digital Stream for my mother-in-law because the interface is straightforward and the remote has large buttons, and it works fine for all the stations in a metro area (Louisville).

Now that we're approaching the switchover, it's time to get two more units. Based on the reviews in this thread, I think I'll get one Channel Master and one Zenith. I live in a somewhat remote hilly area (Blacksburg, Virgina). so I'll be able to provide some good reception test data (with a roof antenna and an amplifier).

Two quick questions - Is the Insignia sold at Best Buy the same unit as the Zenith sold at Circuit City? Do any local stores sell the Channel Master or do you have to order online from someone like Solid Signal?

Thanks.

Yes, the Insignia's the same, and the CM can be found at Fry's Electronics, if you have one of those around.

Solid Signal's generally a good place to order from though, if you have to go that route.

Check your local K-Mart for the Zenith 901. It will cost less ($49.99) than the Zenith at CC or the Insignia at BB.

I am reporting on my long range antenna/digital converter box experiment. My cousin (MyCuz) inherited a fully functional vacation house on +/- 10 acres adjoining on three sides PA state park lands. In other words, it is in the deep, deep fringe zone. The house is on the eastern side of Paddy Mountain, adjoining Bald Eagle State Park. On the other side of the mountain is the Woodward Extreme Sports Camp and State College, PA. Her Mom and Dad were never able to get cable TV (too remote) and OTA was limited to two UHF snowy channels from Scranton. Reception sucked. They were in the pre-satellite generation. The mountain blocks State College, Altoona, and Harrisburg TV.

Enter the digital revolution. I asked MyCuz to buy two Insignia digital boxes from B-B, with after May 2008 manufacturing dates, and a pole lamp from W-M. I supplied an Eagle Aspen twin bow-tie antenna, a Boy Scout Compass, an antenna map from TV-Fool indicating at least 5 channels in line of site, 73.6 miles away, and a 12 foot SG-6 coax cable. I also Google Mapped her house, that indicted we had a good shot of succeeding, with the picture window of the living room facing ENE toward Scranton. The TVFool map indicated little reception from State College.

The living room TV is an over 15 year-old GE CRT with RF and video/stereo inputs. The living room faces east, with a picture window and curtains. House construction is wood frame with composite siding. The garage facing east is in front of the kitchen, and has metal garage door, and a 1967 Buick still sitting in there.

MyCuz wants to help. She says, If I can validate a pharmaceutical autoclave, I can assemble a pole lamp and antenna! Consider it done. Pole lamp assembled, lamps installed, twin bow-tie antenna assembled and attached to pole lamp, RG-6 attached from the antenna balun to OTA converter box, box attached to TV via video/stereo inputs, antenna aimed to compass headings as indicated..

We fire the sucker up. First, using the TV remote, I put the TV into video mode. TV says NO INPUT. We fire up the DTV Box. Nothing! Nothing! Nothing! Remote won't start the box. (Need remote to program the box.) Replace the supplied remote battery. First lesson learned: have spare AAA batteries. Second lesson learned: point the remote directly at the DTV Box, and it needs a forceful pressure to turn on the button.

Now scan screen appears. Right press selector: Channel scan progressing

BAM! We get 11 distinct stations. From 73.6 freaking miles away!!! We get Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, MyN, CW, one weather channel, and FOUR DTV PBS channels! NO REPEAT CHANNELS!

Signal strength good. Appearance wonderful. NO ARTIFACTS!!!

We sat stunned! The Insignia Box allows expanding the picture to fill the 4:3 CRT when the broadcast is in HD. Hey! When we expanded the picture when allowed, the picture quality was still stunning.

I am impressed with the reception and features of the Insignia/Zenith DTV box.

I bought a couple. Both use 12V DC power input ... for possible use in vehicles.

Best - Artec T3AP - good resolution on the menu graphics, more signal sensitivity than the other, signal meter button on the remote for measuring signal strength, snazzy colors and graphics on the setup menus. Minus? The connections on the rear are on a recessed panel. It's difficult to get my fat fingers around the coaxial connectors.

Worst - Sunkey SK-801ATSC - Low signal sensitivity, crude menu display (blue and white characters only) , lower resolution on the details within menus, and lastly, the power supply that was shipped is defective ... sends noise down the RF signal to the TV. Anybody giving odds on my success of getting a replacement power supply?

ceprise said....

"Replace the supplied remote battery. First lesson learned: have spare AAA batteries. Second lesson learned: point the remote directly at the DTV Box"

The battery that comes with the Zenith and Insignia has a clear plastic wrap. You must remove the plastic

Great story. I am still amazed at how well an old TV looks with the digital signal.

Thanks for the tip. I'll be reporting on the Insignia/Zenith DTV box in suburban/multi-path environments (Bucks County PA), and the Paddy Mountain site using an Antennacraft four bow-tie in about a month.

Hi

I have my 2nd DS9500 hooked up to my vcr and analog tv. I had to return one as I lost "sound" one the first- it was defective. I got my replacement and all is 50/50- I am unsure if it is the box or my set up or-- yikes, my tv or vcr.

I have the box into the vcr- the vcr is into a dvd player via rca jacks and the antenna out from the vcr to the tv.

This time around when I hooked it up- I started adjusting the menu and got a horrible buzz-no sound. I unplugged everything and started it up again.

The next time I went to turn on the tv using the DS remote-- nothing-- I checked the tv on/off and also via the vcr remote and it turned on & off. After getting back on- a 3rd time I hit menu and the sound / buzzz started.

When I turn the box off - and this is the 2nd or replacement box- my tv still hums & buzzes. I have to unplug everything to get back to tv.

I did not have any problems without a box. I'm wondering if it's in the audio settings- I have it on "expanded stereo" per digitalstream tech. Otherwise, could it be the RCA jacks? As I said-this is connected to the vcr becasue my tv does not have the jacks. Any suggestions? Thanks..

( ready to give up) !

A question that is a bit off track; but fundamental. Will all cable boxes provide analog output from digital channels to keep the old TVs going when they drop analog signals from the cable? Will they be converting in the set top box from digital or converting the DTV to analog and putting it on the existing analog cable channels?

Reason says they will drop the analog channel bandwidth ASAP.

That's the sole purpose of a cable box. Well, that, and unscrambling analog, if anybody still does that.


A cable box decodes one (or in the case of a dual-tuner DVR, two) signal(s) at a time, and outputs only one signal at a time. You use the box to select channels, not the TV's tuner. (This means that old cable-ready devices are somewhat handicapped, yes -- you can't record one thing on your VCR while you watch another via pass-through.)

Typically the cable box outputs its signal on channel 3 or 4. But modern boxes with modern TVs would preferably use a non-RF connection instead -- composite, s-video, component or HDMI. Apart from HDMI, these are all analog, BTW.

The CECB (which is what we're supposed to be talking about, not cable boxes) works much the same way, except that you connect it to an antenna rather than cable TV. But the CECBs will not work as cable boxes, because they don't support QAM or decryption.

i love the Sansonic (if only for picture quality). the Insignia is so-so, but i'll take PQ over a snazzy UI (as long as it has everything that's important). in EPG would be nice, but not entirely required.

I think you were asking how will cable handle analog connection 2009-2012? Answer is it varies.

Existing 750MHz and up cable systems have room for analog and digital from the head end. A 750MHz cable system has about 120 6MHz channel slots if you include the T channels. Each can be used for one analog, 6-10 QAM SD digital or 2-3 QAM HD digital or a mix of HD and SD. In most cases the cable company gets a feed from the local TV station in MPeg2. They comvert this to QAM (digital cable) and NTSC (analog cable).

My Comcast system here currently has 57 analog channels that can be tuned without a cable box by an NTSC tuner. At the other extreme you have cable systems that are 100% QAM digital and require a cable box to translate digital QAM subchannels to analog NTSC (e.g. Ch 3/4 RF or mapped to multiple analog channels e.g. Ch 2-73).

In the future the number of direct analog NTSC channels on cable will decline in order to make space for additional QAM SD and HD. The FCC has set a low limit that OTA locals ("must carry" and PBS primary) must be carried as direct analog until 2012*. Waivers are allowed if analog basic customers are provided with cable boxes at no additional cost.


*The conversion from ATSC to analog NTSC will be done at the cable office/head end. The locals will still be tunable by an old NTSC tuner over cable in this case.

Yes edDV. You have the idea. I did not word the question real well. Right now on some (probably most) cable systems the unscrambled signals can be used without renting a cable box. I was thinking about people being able to receive unscrambled DTV signals from the cable without renting a box. Unfortunately I failed to remember that the modulation on the cable channels is not the same as broadcast.

From the standpoint of saving analog set users from additional costs; the converter boxes should have been made with the cable compatible demodulators. As I mentioned in my oroginal post, the cable people are going to try to phase out analog asap. So the analog people on basic cable will have to rent a digital set top box. The long term winners are cable companies who get a bunch more of their fixed revenues from these rentals. And they get to redirect the blame for making everyone sent a cable box.