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Guide: GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES - Page 7

post #181 of 196
5/19/11 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboar View Post
Hi kal! first I want to say thanks for the guide. now, for you or anybody that can help. I calibrated my lg55wl5600 last night(or should I say am trying) here are my graphs. I think everything is ok, but am curious if it is normal for the 0 ire to always be way off in the delta-e value. also my cie trianle does not line up(I have no idea what that means) I have only done greyscale and not color calibrations. any help would be appreciated!!!!
Ignore any readings at 0 IRE. There's basically no light there and you can't trust the meter.

If the CIE triangle doesn't ligne up then the primaries are off. The green is likely going to be most noticeable in your case. You can use the built in CMS of your projector to adjust (if it has one) otherwise an external video processor with CMS has to be used to tame the overly saturated primaries. I talk about this in the last section of your guide.

Kal
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post #182 of 196
5/19/11 at 8:29am
ok, thanks! I hvent got to the color portion yet. Will this end up throwing off all the values i entered in the 10-100ire section of my display? I had settings for rgb for each step up and used them to get my greyscale. sorry if that is a stupid question...
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post #183 of 196
5/19/11 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboar View Post

ok, thanks! I hvent got to the color portion yet. Will this end up throwing off all the values i entered in the 10-100ire section of my display? I had settings for rgb for each step up and used them to get my greyscale. sorry if that is a stupid question...

Yes it will. Keep reading in the guide...

Further down (near the end) I mention that you need to keep running through the entire process until you can make it through without changing one thing. Any change can affect other things.

Once you make it through from start to end without changing anything you are done.

Kal
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post #184 of 196
5/19/11 at 10:33am
ok thanks, sorry I didnt read before asking, I am going to read the next section when i get home from work. thanks again for doing this!!!
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post #185 of 196
8/29/12 at 10:39pm
Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?
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post #186 of 196
8/30/12 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeosnk View Post

Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?

In this guide, High is used for IRE 80 and Low is used for IRE 30. When you only have high and low controls, you hope that the rest of the white balance comes close to correct after adjusting at IRE 80 and IRE 30. If you have 10pt control. you should use each point to adjust each of the IRE levels. A 10 point WB control will allow you to finely tune your entire white balance and gamma much more precisely than just using two points. Some TVs like the recent LGs have 20point adjustments. This is an overkill in my opinion, but it allows you to tune even more finely. In an ideal world, we would have 256 point adjustments, but this isn't very practical, so a 10 point or 20point W/B controls is offered with newer TVs so you can calibrate your TV more finely than 2point.
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post #187 of 196
8/30/12 at 2:29am
Even a 2pt system is sufficient if it worked properly (if it was completely linear, but that's usually not the case). 10pt is enough, 20pt is excessive.

On the topic of 2pt systems, you should still check the entire grayscale and not just the two points you're measuring. I use 20/80 rather than 30/80 as a starting point, but I do a 10% sweep and fine tune RGB to the lowest average dE across the entire grayscale.

10pt is similar to 2pt, except you can adjust RGB in 10pts rather than 2 (high-end of the scale and low-end of the scale) for more precision. It takes much longer but results in better accuracy.
Edited by rahzel - 8/30/12 at 2:56am
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post #188 of 196
8/30/12 at 6:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeosnk View Post

Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?

Still do the main calibration at around 30 and 80. Get that as good as you can. Then you can tweak the other points if needed to get it as flat as possible.

Kal
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post #189 of 196
8/30/12 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Even a 2pt system is sufficient if it worked properly (if it was completely linear, but that's usually not the case). 10pt is enough, 20pt is excessive.
On the topic of 2pt systems, you should still check the entire grayscale and not just the two points you're measuring. I use 20/80 rather than 30/80 as a starting point, but I do a 10% sweep and fine tune RGB to the lowest average dE across the entire grayscale.
10pt is similar to 2pt, except you can adjust RGB in 10pts rather than 2 (high-end of the scale and low-end of the scale) for more precision. It takes much longer but results in better accuracy.

the 10-pt grayscale controls on last year's LG LCD/LED lineup are very good; when calibrated to minimize dE at each 10% interval, the in between (5% intervals) track perfectly as well... this means you can get perfect RGB tracking and gamma at every 5% interval short of 0% (black) and 5% (near black)

also, there is no need to do 2-pt first on these LGs... everything I mentioned above can be done with 10-pt only

I don't know why they stripped the 2012 sets of this great calibration feature... I can't imagine it saving them much money.
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post #190 of 196
8/30/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

the 10-pt grayscale controls on last year's LG LCD/LED lineup are very good; when calibrated to minimize dE at each 10% interval, the in between (5% intervals) track perfectly as well... this means you can get perfect RGB tracking and gamma at every 5% interval short of 0% (black) and 5% (near black)
also, there is no need to do 2-pt first on these LGs... everything I mentioned above can be done with 10-pt only
I don't know why they stripped the 2012 sets of this great calibration feature... I can't imagine it saving them much money.
Ya, LG has improved their 10pt system over the years. My LH90 wasn't very linear between points causing banding when looking at >10 step patterns or grayscale ramps... it took me a long time to get it right. My LD350 (which is a model a year after the LH90 was released) is much more linear between points and I didn't have such issues (or at least it was much less of an issue).

Does doing the 2pt first on the LGs help make the 10pt more linear between points? I see many people doing the 2pt then 10pt on the VT50 plasma for that reason, but I didn't know if that worked on all 10pt systems. If the 10pt system worked properly as you said, doing the 2pt first shouldn't be needed.
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post #191 of 196
8/30/12 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post


Does doing the 2pt first on the LGs help make the 10pt more linear between points? I see many people doing the 2pt then 10pt on the VT50 plasma for that reason, but I didn't know if that worked on all 10pt systems. If the 10pt system worked properly as you said, doing the 2pt first shouldn't be needed.

No, it actually makes the 10% intervals (10, 20... 90, 100) slightly worse in terms of dE (though it shouldn't make any visible differences... so either approach is fine). The Panasonic VT50 does require 2-pt to be done first, AFAIK (but it's a different brand/model/model year/display tech, etc.).
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post #192 of 196
12/7/12 at 9:32am
Hi and thanks for your info on HDTV calibration.

The One Eye Display LT is not longer available. Will the replacement model X-Rite ColorMunki Smile work?

Thanks
Ralph
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post #193 of 196
12/10/12 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 
I don't believe the X-Rite ColorMunki is supported by the free ColorHCFR software, so no.

Kal
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post #194 of 196
12/11/12 at 7:22am
What about the fork of HCFR: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed I believe it's supported with that: http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/Home/
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post #195 of 196
12/11/12 at 7:40am
Thread Starter 
I don't know. I haven't been following the fork closely as it's in constant flux/change. I'm hesitant to make any changes to my 20,000 word guide until it stabilizes. I don't want to be continously changing it nor can I try every meter that that intend on supporting.

If their new version supports it (or any other meter) then yes, you may of course use it and follow my guide. For driver installation and other specifics that relate to newly supported meters, you'll have to refer to the notes supplied by the authors of the new forked version.

I don't see a meter called the Colormunki Smile here however : http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/Home/
I'm not sure if that's a completely different meter from from Colormunki Display. It may be the same thing with simply different packaged X-Rite software (that you wouldn't use if you're using ColorHCFR).

Any questions that relate to getting new meters to work with the new forked version of ColorHCFR should be asked in the official thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed

Once you get a new meter up and running in ColorHCFR, my guide will of course work as it's meter agnostic.

Kal
Edited by kal - 12/11/12 at 7:56am
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post #196 of 196
12/11/12 at 8:09am
Actually, I didn't realize it was the Smile. Thought he was just asking about the ColorMunki. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification, and the guide, of course.
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