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Guide: GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES - Page 7

post #181 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboar View Post
Hi kal! first I want to say thanks for the guide. now, for you or anybody that can help. I calibrated my lg55wl5600 last night(or should I say am trying) here are my graphs. I think everything is ok, but am curious if it is normal for the 0 ire to always be way off in the delta-e value. also my cie trianle does not line up(I have no idea what that means) I have only done greyscale and not color calibrations. any help would be appreciated!!!!
Ignore any readings at 0 IRE. There's basically no light there and you can't trust the meter.

If the CIE triangle doesn't ligne up then the primaries are off. The green is likely going to be most noticeable in your case. You can use the built in CMS of your projector to adjust (if it has one) otherwise an external video processor with CMS has to be used to tame the overly saturated primaries. I talk about this in the last section of your guide.

Kal
post #182 of 258
ok, thanks! I hvent got to the color portion yet. Will this end up throwing off all the values i entered in the 10-100ire section of my display? I had settings for rgb for each step up and used them to get my greyscale. sorry if that is a stupid question...
post #183 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboar View Post

ok, thanks! I hvent got to the color portion yet. Will this end up throwing off all the values i entered in the 10-100ire section of my display? I had settings for rgb for each step up and used them to get my greyscale. sorry if that is a stupid question...

Yes it will. Keep reading in the guide...

Further down (near the end) I mention that you need to keep running through the entire process until you can make it through without changing one thing. Any change can affect other things.

Once you make it through from start to end without changing anything you are done.

Kal
post #184 of 258
ok thanks, sorry I didnt read before asking, I am going to read the next section when i get home from work. thanks again for doing this!!!
post #185 of 258
Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?
post #186 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeosnk View Post

Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?

In this guide, High is used for IRE 80 and Low is used for IRE 30. When you only have high and low controls, you hope that the rest of the white balance comes close to correct after adjusting at IRE 80 and IRE 30. If you have 10pt control. you should use each point to adjust each of the IRE levels. A 10 point WB control will allow you to finely tune your entire white balance and gamma much more precisely than just using two points. Some TVs like the recent LGs have 20point adjustments. This is an overkill in my opinion, but it allows you to tune even more finely. In an ideal world, we would have 256 point adjustments, but this isn't very practical, so a 10 point or 20point W/B controls is offered with newer TVs so you can calibrate your TV more finely than 2point.
post #187 of 258
Even a 2pt system is sufficient if it worked properly (if it was completely linear, but that's usually not the case). 10pt is enough, 20pt is excessive.

On the topic of 2pt systems, you should still check the entire grayscale and not just the two points you're measuring. I use 20/80 rather than 30/80 as a starting point, but I do a 10% sweep and fine tune RGB to the lowest average dE across the entire grayscale.

10pt is similar to 2pt, except you can adjust RGB in 10pts rather than 2 (high-end of the scale and low-end of the scale) for more precision. It takes much longer but results in better accuracy.
Edited by rahzel - 8/30/12 at 2:56am
post #188 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeosnk View Post

Stupid question.. on the grayscale for dummies I only see RGBHighEnd & RGBLowEnd calibration instructions. How would you go about calibrating using 10 point?

Still do the main calibration at around 30 and 80. Get that as good as you can. Then you can tweak the other points if needed to get it as flat as possible.

Kal
post #189 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Even a 2pt system is sufficient if it worked properly (if it was completely linear, but that's usually not the case). 10pt is enough, 20pt is excessive.
On the topic of 2pt systems, you should still check the entire grayscale and not just the two points you're measuring. I use 20/80 rather than 30/80 as a starting point, but I do a 10% sweep and fine tune RGB to the lowest average dE across the entire grayscale.
10pt is similar to 2pt, except you can adjust RGB in 10pts rather than 2 (high-end of the scale and low-end of the scale) for more precision. It takes much longer but results in better accuracy.

the 10-pt grayscale controls on last year's LG LCD/LED lineup are very good; when calibrated to minimize dE at each 10% interval, the in between (5% intervals) track perfectly as well... this means you can get perfect RGB tracking and gamma at every 5% interval short of 0% (black) and 5% (near black)

also, there is no need to do 2-pt first on these LGs... everything I mentioned above can be done with 10-pt only

I don't know why they stripped the 2012 sets of this great calibration feature... I can't imagine it saving them much money.
post #190 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

the 10-pt grayscale controls on last year's LG LCD/LED lineup are very good; when calibrated to minimize dE at each 10% interval, the in between (5% intervals) track perfectly as well... this means you can get perfect RGB tracking and gamma at every 5% interval short of 0% (black) and 5% (near black)
also, there is no need to do 2-pt first on these LGs... everything I mentioned above can be done with 10-pt only
I don't know why they stripped the 2012 sets of this great calibration feature... I can't imagine it saving them much money.
Ya, LG has improved their 10pt system over the years. My LH90 wasn't very linear between points causing banding when looking at >10 step patterns or grayscale ramps... it took me a long time to get it right. My LD350 (which is a model a year after the LH90 was released) is much more linear between points and I didn't have such issues (or at least it was much less of an issue).

Does doing the 2pt first on the LGs help make the 10pt more linear between points? I see many people doing the 2pt then 10pt on the VT50 plasma for that reason, but I didn't know if that worked on all 10pt systems. If the 10pt system worked properly as you said, doing the 2pt first shouldn't be needed.
post #191 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post


Does doing the 2pt first on the LGs help make the 10pt more linear between points? I see many people doing the 2pt then 10pt on the VT50 plasma for that reason, but I didn't know if that worked on all 10pt systems. If the 10pt system worked properly as you said, doing the 2pt first shouldn't be needed.

No, it actually makes the 10% intervals (10, 20... 90, 100) slightly worse in terms of dE (though it shouldn't make any visible differences... so either approach is fine). The Panasonic VT50 does require 2-pt to be done first, AFAIK (but it's a different brand/model/model year/display tech, etc.).
post #192 of 258
Hi and thanks for your info on HDTV calibration.

The One Eye Display LT is not longer available. Will the replacement model X-Rite ColorMunki Smile work?

Thanks
Ralph
post #193 of 258
Thread Starter 
I don't believe the X-Rite ColorMunki is supported by the free ColorHCFR software, so no.

Kal
post #194 of 258
post #195 of 258
Thread Starter 
I don't know. I haven't been following the fork closely as it's in constant flux/change. I'm hesitant to make any changes to my 20,000 word guide until it stabilizes. I don't want to be continously changing it nor can I try every meter that that intend on supporting.

If their new version supports it (or any other meter) then yes, you may of course use it and follow my guide. For driver installation and other specifics that relate to newly supported meters, you'll have to refer to the notes supplied by the authors of the new forked version.

I don't see a meter called the Colormunki Smile here however : http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/Home/
I'm not sure if that's a completely different meter from from Colormunki Display. It may be the same thing with simply different packaged X-Rite software (that you wouldn't use if you're using ColorHCFR).

Any questions that relate to getting new meters to work with the new forked version of ColorHCFR should be asked in the official thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed

Once you get a new meter up and running in ColorHCFR, my guide will of course work as it's meter agnostic.

Kal
Edited by kal - 12/11/12 at 7:56am
post #196 of 258
Actually, I didn't realize it was the Smile. Thought he was just asking about the ColorMunki. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification, and the guide, of course.
post #197 of 258
Thread Starter 
Update:

A new 2014 edition of the Grayscale & Color Calibration for Dummies guide is now available.

My previous guide was written in 2008 and focused primarily on the calibration of CRT projectors (what I had at the time). I've since then switched to a JVC RS-56 projector so this new guide focuses on the calibration of newer display technologies such as digital projectors and flat panel TVs and includes information on the finer controls offered by these newer display devices, especially in the areas of gamma and color calibration.

Cheers,

Kal
post #198 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

I don't know. I haven't been following the fork closely as it's in constant flux/change. I'm hesitant to make any changes to my 20,000 word guide until it stabilizes. I don't want to be continously changing it nor can I try every meter that that intend on supporting.

If their new version supports it (or any other meter) then yes, you may of course use it and follow my guide. For driver installation and other specifics that relate to newly supported meters, you'll have to refer to the notes supplied by the authors of the new forked version.

I don't see a meter called the Colormunki Smile here however : http://sourceforge.net/p/hcfr/wiki/Home/
I'm not sure if that's a completely different meter from from Colormunki Display. It may be the same thing with simply different packaged X-Rite software (that you wouldn't use if you're using ColorHCFR).

Any questions that relate to getting new meters to work with the new forked version of ColorHCFR should be asked in the official thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed

Once you get a new meter up and running in ColorHCFR, my guide will of course work as it's meter agnostic.

Kal

Kal,

Thanks for your guide! It has been and extremely useful resource. The current version of HCFR (3.1.0.4) is stable and will not likely change regarding meter support, the meter front-end is completely based off of ArgyllCMS code and all meters referenced on this page are supported.

cheers,

-zoyd
post #199 of 258
I'd like to use my laptop's HDMI to calibrate my new LED. Greyscale obviously I can do with HCFR patterns. But what do you recommend I use for test patterns, since I'm using my computer (with my TV as the second monitor) to set brightness, contrast, color/tint? Also, should brightness/contrast be set before greyscale?
post #200 of 258
post #201 of 258
Kal,

I want to order a ChromaPure package. Which meter would you recommend for a curved OLED screen?

Great guide!

Bob
post #202 of 258
The i1 pro is the best option if you have the budget, if not The i1 display pro is the way to go.

Best combo is i1pro + i1 display pro
post #203 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Kal,
I want to order a ChromaPure package. Which meter would you recommend for a curved OLED screen?
Great guide!
Bob
Hi Bob. If ChromaPure is what you're after, I'd recommend the ChromaPure + Display 3 PRO package.

Kal
post #204 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by realzven View Post

The i1 pro is the best option if you have the budget, if not The i1 display pro is the way to go.

Best combo is i1pro + i1 display pro

So I should get the i1 Pro bundled with ChromaPure Standard? Then add the i1 display pro meter?
post #205 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Hi Bob. If ChromaPure is what you're after, I'd recommend the ChromaPure + Display 3 PRO package.

Kal

Thanks, Kal. The ChromaPure site shows the bundles that are available. Which version of ChromaPure should I go with, OEM or Retail?
post #206 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

So I should get the i1 Pro bundled with ChromaPure Standard? Then add the i1 display pro meter?

This is an option but it's beyond most people's budgets. The i1Pro is a spectroradiometer that remains accurate (doesn't drift) as much or basically not at all. It lets you keep your calibrate i1 Display Pro (Display 3) meter accurate. For more info see the"FAQ: Which meter is right for me?" in my sig. Read the second on using 2 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Thanks, Kal. The ChromaPure site shows the bundles that are available. Which version of ChromaPure should I go with, OEM or Retail?

If you only want to calibrate TVs and projectors using ChromaPure, the OEM is fine. The retail boxed version also comes with X-Rite software to calibrate PC/MAC monitors automatically (.iCC profiles). Choose whichever works for you.

Kal
post #207 of 258
Can you explain a little further the gamma calibration for sets that don't have 10-point gamma control? My display has presets (-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3) and I can try each one, as you suggest, but which measurement mode(s) do I select in the Gamma module?
post #208 of 258
Thread Starter 
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "which measurement mode(s) do I select in the Gamma module?" Can you explain?


Kal
post #209 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post

Can you explain a little further the gamma calibration for sets that don't have 10-point gamma control? My display has presets (-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3) and I can try each one, as you suggest, but which measurement mode(s) do I select in the Gamma module?

You don't select any mode. If all you have is gamma presets then use the gamma preset value that is closest to 2.22. In this instance since you don't have the 10pt gamma controls you just select the best gamma preset. That's all you can do. You need not to use the gamma module since you have no way of calibrating the gamma . Recheck brightness after changing the gamma.
post #210 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "which measurement mode(s) do I select in the Gamma module?" Can you explain?


Kal

It's not clear if I have to pick one of the measure modes (10%, 20% and so on) to find out which one of the presets will give me 2.2 gamma. According to Hungro, I don't choose any of the modes.
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