or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio! - Page 88

post #2611 of 2819
Does anyone have any idea why "7.1 Surround" is missing from the Speaker Setup page for "ATI HDMI Audio"?

I have Dell Studio XPS 16 w/ ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670. And as far as I can tell the specification for the video card claims to support 2 LPCM and 7.1 Dolby Digital through HDMI.

Initially even "5.1 Surround" was missing from the Speaker page, but that's solved when I installed Realtek ATI HDMI Audio driver. However I still do not see "7.1 Surround".

Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW I'm using Windows 7. And "Supported Format" page of the configuration dialog is a bit different as well. It doesn't allow me to select/deselect through checkbox. I just shows what's available automatically if that helps.
post #2612 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

It is easy to see if ffdshow is used or not. Run 7MC in a windows and check the system tray.

Vista Media Center Decoder Utility (VMCD) is now Media Center Decoder Utility (MCDU). But I don't use it: DirectShow Decoders Used in WMP12/7MC.

OK I've now got ffdshow audio decoder working in Vista media center thanks to your help but I'm still getting problems with using reclock for everything, especially 24fps mkvs.

Without wishing to derail this thread further though, I've posted a new one about this here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post17740165
post #2613 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagali View Post

Ha Ha!

OK, then, here's my question: new HPTC with Sapphire 4670 512 MB. Win 7 Professional, 32 bit. HDMI output to TV, SPDIF to Onkyo 505 receiver for DD/DTS.

Although I have every setting in CCC 9.11 set to 'Use Application Settings'... when I play MKV, AVI, or DVD video in Zoomplayer 6, MPC-HC (latest) or TMT3, I'm unable to make any adjustments to brightness/contrast. All are using EVR renderer, with Aero. In ZP, for example, the Color Control doesn't show "Unsupported" -- it allows you to move the scales up or down all you want, but just doesn't make any change to the actual video output. MPC-HC and TMT3 color controls are completely greyed out.

My video quality is great, no problems at all. But every now and then I open a file that needs a bit more or less brightness/contrast. I hate changing the TV's control, because that will throw everything else off. Any suggestions?

MPC-HC's controls I think are for VMR9 (look closely, I'm pretty sure it tells you). You're better off using EVR-CP anyway. For all these, I think you can still mess with color sliders in ffdshow, but I haven't found it necessary.
post #2614 of 2819
How do I have stereo music playback on ALL speakers? That is, playing MP3 to all the speakers on a 5.1 or 7.1 system. The front left channel outputs to all left surround speakers and front right channel outputs to all right surround speakers.

My setup is:
- ATI Radeon 4800 via HDMI
- Denon AVR with 5.1 (soon 7.1)
- Windows 7 and realtek ATI HDMI driver v2.39
- MP3 playback via WinAMP, Windows Media Player, MediaMonkey, etc.

The best I could do was adjust Realtek HDMI Output Properties under the Enhancements tab:
- enable "Environment" and select "Setting: Room"
- enable "Speaker Fill"

It works, sort of. The problems are the sound from the surround channels are lower in volume, distorted/unclear with echos.

So it's been a year that this products been out. Windows 7 is no longer beta and AMD and Realtek have had plenty of times tweaking drivers. Please advice.
post #2615 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd612 View Post

How do I have stereo music playback on ALL speakers?

WASAPI exclusive mode (bypassing Windows Audio Engine, one of the worst Windows components for HTPC, which expands stereo music [or whatever] to the speaker configuration you chose in Sound control panel) along with Dolby PLIIx in your receiver is perhaps the best solution. How?

- WMP12: Use ReClock as the audio renderer
- Winamp: via a plugin
post #2616 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd612 View Post

How do I have stereo music playback on ALL speakers?

- enable "Speaker Fill"

That is exactly what "Speaker Fill" does. If you want to get rid of the echo, disable the Environment setting.
post #2617 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

MPC-HC's controls I think are for VMR9 (look closely, I'm pretty sure it tells you). You're better off using EVR-CP anyway. For all these, I think you can still mess with color sliders in ffdshow, but I haven't found it necessary.

Right, I have MPC-HC set on EVR-CP. Didn't change the problem though.

The problem with using ffdshow in MPC (or ZP6) is that any change applies to all videos, not just the current one. But I think I found a workaround. I upgraded Zoomplayer to the new version, 7. One of its new features is that you can specify in options to use ffdshow's color controls, instead of the standard ones. The biggest benefit is that it will save those settings on a video-by-video basis, just as it always did.

The only catch is that you have to have ffdshow in the decoding chain somewhere. But it's easy to just add the ffdshow raw video decoder after the main one (e.g. I prefer the MPC Video Decoder for MKV and AVI files) Then ZP 7 will use the ffdshow color controls in their usual interface.

I know this has turned out to not involve the video card specifically, but somebody else might have a similar problem.
post #2618 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

WASAPI exclusive mode (bypassing Windows Audio Engine, one of the worst Windows components for HTPC, which expands stereo music [or whatever] to the speaker configuration you chose in Sound control panel)

It does not expand anything if you turn the effect off in the properties of the audio device. Generally, the Windows mixer in Vista and Win7 is much improved over the one in XP in terms of audio quality (floating point mixer, high-quality resampling). I'm pretty sure that very few people would hear a difference in a blind test.
post #2619 of 2819
set ur card to output stereo,

select stereo 5ch on AVR, done =).

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd612 View Post

How do I have stereo music playback on ALL speakers? That is, playing MP3 to all the speakers on a 5.1 or 7.1 system. The front left channel outputs to all left surround speakers and front right channel outputs to all right surround speakers.

My setup is:
- ATI Radeon 4800 via HDMI
- Denon AVR with 5.1 (soon 7.1)
- Windows 7 and realtek ATI HDMI driver v2.39
- MP3 playback via WinAMP, Windows Media Player, MediaMonkey, etc.

The best I could do was adjust Realtek HDMI Output Properties under the Enhancements tab:
- enable "Environment" and select "Setting: Room"
- enable "Speaker Fill"

It works, sort of. The problems are the sound from the surround channels are lower in volume, distorted/unclear with echos.

So it's been a year that this products been out. Windows 7 is no longer beta and AMD and Realtek have had plenty of times tweaking drivers. Please advice.
post #2620 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

It does not expand anything if you turn the effect off in the properties of the audio device. Generally, the Windows mixer in Vista and Win7 is much improved over the one in XP in terms of audio quality (floating point mixer, high-quality resampling). I'm pretty sure that very few people would hear a difference in a blind test.

Expand here means stereo to multichannel with all speakers except for fronts silent (unless you select stereo speakers in Sound control panle). That's a fact.

Unfortunately lots of people in this forum are complaining of the low volume issue in WASAPI shared mode that is fixed instantly by WASAPI exclusive. E.g. Why do my MKVs with FLAC have low volume?. (Even PowerDVD suffers from this; the difference between 24/48 LPCM *bitstream* and 16/48 LPCM in WASAPI shared mode is clear.) I have no idea what's going on inside Windows Audio Engine. Wrong channel count is totally unacceptable for me (and many 7.1 speaker users). Of course if you don't hear the difference and don't care of wrong channel count, that's fine for you.
post #2621 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Expand here means stereo to multichannel with all speakers except for fronts silent. This is true.

Unfortunately lots of people in this forum are complaining of the low volume issue in WASAPI shared mode that is fixed instantly by WASAPI exclusive. E.g. Why do my MKVs with FLAC have low volume?. (Even PowerDVD suffers from this; the difference between 24/48 LPCM *bitstream* and 16/48 LPCM in WASAPI shared mode is clear.) I have no idea what's going on inside Windows Audio Engine. Wrong channel count is totally unacceptable for me. Of course if you don't hear the difference and don't care of wrong channel count, that's fine for you.

Is there any reason to use Reclock if I have MKV or TS movies but with the original HD Audio track and not FLAC? I have been messing around with Reclock on my desktop PC but haven't tried on my HTPCs yet which have the 4670 using 7MC x32 + MediaBrowser. Obviously I cannot bitstream yet so I only get the core DTS or AC3 sent to my AVR currently, all via HDMI.
post #2622 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Is there any reason to use Reclock if I have MKV or TS movies but with the original HD Audio track and not FLAC? I have been messing around with Reclock on my desktop PC but haven't tried on my HTPCs yet which have the 4670 using 7MC x32 + MediaBrowser. Obviously I cannot bitstream yet so I only get the core DTS or AC3 sent to my AVR currently, all via HDMI.

(Importance of) WASAPI exlusive mode (via typically ReClock) applies only to LPCM (original or decoded from compressed formats). If you are going to bitstream compressed formats (AC3/DTS/EAC3/TrueHD/DTS-HD), you don't have to use WASAPI exclusive (because Windows audio can't touch compressed audio streams!; ffdshow HD audio bitstreaming works well [actually the best] with Default DirectSound Device). Anyway ReClock does not work with compressed audio format pass-through (well) and it's not ReClock's original intention.
post #2623 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

(Importance of) WASAPI exlusive mode (via typically ReClock) applies only to LPCM (original or decoded from compressed formats). If you are going to bitstream compressed formats (AC3/DTS/EAC3/TrueHD/DTS-HD), you don't have to use WASAPI exclusive (because Windows audio can't touch compressed audio streams!; ffdshow HD audio bitstreaming works well [actually the best] with Default DirectSound Device). Anyway ReClock does not work with compressed audio format pass-through (well) and it's not ReClock's original intention.

How about if I have a mixed enviroment (some mkv/FLAC movies as well as mkv/ts with original HD Audio). I was going to use the settings you outlined here, will this keep the original HD Audio tracks unaffected yet apply ReClock towards the FLAC movies? Thanks for your input.
post #2624 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

How about if I have a mixed enviroment (some mkv/FLAC movies as well as mkv/ts with original HD Audio). I was going to use the settings you outlined here, will this keep the original HD Audio tracks unaffected yet apply ReClock towards the FLAC movies? Thanks for your input.

Perhaps you'd better stick to either "bit-perfect LPCM" or "LPCM/compressed audio bitstreaming". There is no satisfactory mixture solution right now (unless somebody creates a good audio renderer).

Bit-perfect LPCM: Decode everything (except for LPCM) to LPCM properly by a decoder, then send them bit-perfect in WASAPI exclusive.

LPCM/compressed audio bitstreaming: Pass-through LPCM/compressed audio formats unmolested.

Note that the notion of "LPCM bitstreaming" is still unclear (so the bitstreaming world is still incomplete [maybe never be completed by ffdshow]). madshi wrote:

Quote:


As far as I can see, there are 2 *very* different ways to handle LPCM. First of all, LPCM is not different to the output of any decoder (FLAC, AAC, MP3, WMA, whatever), except that Blu-Ray LPCM is big endian instead of small endian, and maybe the channel sorting is different. However, the big difference is in how you send the data to the audio renderer. You can either:

(1) Send the audio data as decoded PCM samples to the audio renderer. This is how everyone has been doing things for ages. This is how ffdshow is doing things right now. The result of this method is that both the OS and the audio driver may do processing on the audio data. Basically what you feed the audio renderer will in most cases be very much different to what actually gets output to HDMI (unless you use wasapi exclusive mode, maybe).

(2) Send the audio data encapsulated as "LPCM bitstream". I don't know if this is possible at all. I hope it is. If it's possible, the audio data output through HDMI should be 100% identical to what you feed the audio renderer. This is what we're looking for. You can easily test whether it works by checking whether the OS volume control has any effect. If the volume control has an effect, the audio renderer doesn't treat the audio data as LPCM bitstream, but it treats it as normal decoded audio data instead.

Of course it would be *great* if you could get (2) to work. Because that would mean that we wouldn't even need wasapi exclusive mode, anymore. I have no idea how the media type information and audio data needs to be formatted for the audio renderer and audio drivers to understand the data as "LPCM bitstream". It's quite possible that you have to convert the audio data to big endian and use IEC headers etc. If you could get this to work, it should also work to passthrough the decoding result of FLAC, AAC, WMA etc decoders untouched via HDMI to the receiver...

BTW apparently PowerDVD 9 is *bitstreaming* 24bit/48kHz LPCM with a proprietary media type structure (over HD 5xxx/Auzen X-Fi):

- Sub Type: {6AD2A952-9979-4DC4-B6E1-6F3C3137B342}
- wFormatTag: 49152

(of course encrypted).
post #2625 of 2819
#2 is exactly what I'm getting with MPC/5750 when I play a TrueHD track -I get PCM Multichannel, only the AVR affects audio. It's a fluke because if I play a DTS-HD BD, then I get DTS HD MA on the receiver. But if I use WinDvd2010 and play the same TrueHD, it is not bitstreamed, it's still lpcm and not TrueHD.
post #2626 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Perhaps you'd better stick to either "bit-perfect LPCM" or "LPCM/compressed audio bitstreaming". There is no satisfactory mixture solution right now (unless somebody creates a good audio renderer).

Thx Rene. Most of my BR rips have the original HD Audio track. I only recently started messing around with FLAC. With all the bitstreaming solutions hopefully right around the corner I think I will just stick with HD Audio.
post #2627 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Expand here means stereo to multichannel with all speakers except for fronts silent (unless you select stereo speakers in Sound control panle). That's a fact.

Well, that's not expansion, but the expected behaviour. Otherwise it couldn't mix audio sources with different channel configurations without interrupting the audio stream.
Quote:


Unfortunately lots of people in this forum are complaining of the low volume issue in WASAPI shared mode that is fixed instantly by WASAPI exclusive. E.g. Why do my MKVs with FLAC have low volume?. (Even PowerDVD suffers from this; the difference between 24/48 LPCM *bitstream* and 16/48 LPCM in WASAPI shared mode is clear.)

I have no such problem here. All volume settings in Windows should be set to 100% in Vista and Win7 (but not in XP, since its inferior integer mixer will produce clipping then).
Quote:


I have no idea what's going on inside Windows Audio Engine. Wrong channel count is totally unacceptable for me (and many 7.1 speaker users). Of course if you don't hear the difference and don't care of wrong channel count, that's fine for you.

What do you mean by "wrong channel count"?
post #2628 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

I have no such problem here.

Then Windows mixer must be nice for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigby Reardon View Post

What do you mean by "wrong channel count"?

Count = number, just rephrasing the first issue I mentioned or "the expected behavior" as you wrote. Well, issue or non-issue, expected or unexpected is a subjective matter. At least I (and quite a few people) don't want (to expect) 8 channel LPCM over HDMI from 2/5.1 channel LPCM audio.
post #2629 of 2819
What is the difference between this Sapphire card, which has "Integrated with native HDMI port" in it's description...

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102855

and this card for $10 less?

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102854

Sorry for the lack of hyperlinks... apparently I need 3 posts before I can do that, heh.
post #2630 of 2819
Thread Starter 
The only difference is memory size: 1GB vs 512MB. 512MB is enough for video playback.
post #2631 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Count = number, just rephrasing the first issue I mentioned or "the expected behavior" as you wrote. Well, issue or non-issue, expected or unexpected is a subjective matter. At least I (and quite a few people) don't want (to expect) 8 channel LPCM over HDMI from 2/5.1 channel LPCM audio.

OK. I understand the point you are making, but for the Windows mixer this behavior is really the only alternative since it has to be able to deal with the general case, including mixing multiple different sources.

BTW, Reclock has an option to automatically adjust the Windows channel configuration according to the currently played source that also works without using WASAPI. Perhaps this is a way to get both bitstreaming and PCM in the way you want it without switching (haven't tried it myself though, since I don't have a 5xxx card yet).
post #2632 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The only difference is memory size: 1GB vs 512MB. 512MB is enough for video playback.

Ok, thanks. I'm actually doing a lot of reading here before I build my first HTPC... you and many others have provided great information regarding what I'm trying to accomplish.

One of my goals is to play Blu ray rips using HDMI to my receiver. After doing some research I think I want to go the way of ripping to MKV w/ FLAC audio... so in order to correctly play the audio on my 5.1 setup, I would need a card like that Sapphire 4670 instead of using the integrated HDMI on the 785G boards, correct? I just recently discovered that the integrated 42xx on those boards do not support multi channel LPCM... but I just wanted to be clear that it also means the FLAC audio will need a card like the 4670 to play correctly on a 5.1 surround sound setup.
post #2633 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoosh830 View Post

What is the difference between this Sapphire card, which has "Integrated with native HDMI port" in it's description...

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102855

and this card for $10 less?

newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102854

Sorry for the lack of hyperlinks... apparently I need 3 posts before I can do that, heh.

Depends if (and how much) you have to pay shipping on the 512MB card. If you're ordering the card alone without piggybacking on more items in the order, the free shipping on the 1GB card makes it about a wash.
post #2634 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

Depends if (and how much) you have to pay shipping on the 512MB card. If you're ordering the card alone without piggybacking on more items in the order, the free shipping on the 1GB card makes it about a wash.

Good point.
post #2635 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoosh830 View Post

Ok, thanks. I'm actually doing a lot of reading here before I build my first HTPC... you and many others have provided great information regarding what I'm trying to accomplish.

One of my goals is to play Blu ray rips using HDMI to my receiver. After doing some research I think I want to go the way of ripping to MKV w/ FLAC audio... so in order to correctly play the audio on my 5.1 setup, I would need a card like that Sapphire 4670 instead of using the integrated HDMI on the 785G boards, correct? I just recently discovered that the integrated 42xx on those boards do not support multi channel LPCM... but I just wanted to be clear that it also means the FLAC audio will need a card like the 4670 to play correctly on a 5.1 surround sound setup.

785G supports only stereo PCM/DD/DTS. You will need a multichannel LPCM solution such as a discrete HD 4xxx card.
post #2636 of 2819
Long time lurker but first time trying out htpc's. I bought a Zino with the 4330 card, hooked it up to my tv last night for the first time and when I tried the sound test the back speakers only played through the fronts. This is through hdmi connection and 5.1 set up. Is this the mapping problem that y'all talk about? What can I do to fix this? It seemed like I was getting sound out of the back speakers when playing a movie but on the test tones it would only play out the fronts. I forget what the AVR was set on when playing back the movies last night.
post #2637 of 2819
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDz View Post

Long time lurker but first time trying out htpc's. I bought a Zino with the 4330 card, hooked it up to my tv last night for the first time and when I tried the sound test the back speakers only played through the fronts. This is through hdmi connection and 5.1 set up. Is this the mapping problem that y'all talk about? What can I do to fix this? It seemed like I was getting sound out of the back speakers when playing a movie but on the test tones it would only play out the fronts. I forget what the AVR was set on when playing back the movies last night.

HDMI driver version? AVR model number?
post #2638 of 2819
I'll have to wiat till I get home in about an hour for the hdmi driver version but it is the stock dell zino build with 6850 proccessor and 4330 card. The AVR is a Pioneer Elite VSX-03.
post #2639 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

HDMI driver version? AVR model number?

1. ATI driver version...5.0.7000.7
2. Pioneer Elite VSX-03
post #2640 of 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arashjahn View Post

Thanks Tulli. I will endeavor to make this obscure, but very prevalent issue reach a resolution. I was torn between cable length, ATI HDMI-DVI dongle and EDID. Now, it seems like EDID and drivers are the fix. The irony is I can get it to work, but it takes all those steps I outlined above (~20 minutes of nonsense). Check out the pix I have floating around of the system.

Keep you posted,
///A

Ok, first installed Catlyst 9.12...still no HDMI audio enabled in Windows 7. Then did the Realtek 2.39, no change either. This is so frustrating. Anybody know what the EDID is for the Onkyo PR-SC885p?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio!