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RPh Drew's Thread - Logan's Hero... for now... - Page 3

post #61 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

These are just temp lights as I don't have my sconces yet but the important things is that they work!!!... Not that I had much doubt... as I wired myself... but there was a little nervous tension as I flipped the breaker.

Switch bank - I have cat5e wire hanging out of the box as this is what will connect to a sensor in the front of the room. It was a tight squeeze to get it all in there as it was a fairly shallow box but with a little wire management and patience, it all fit.



What kind of light switches are those?
post #62 of 1060
lutron spacer it looks like
post #63 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post





Based on this pic, I would think you still should be able to pull that box straight out and if the wires are coming down from above into the box you might be able to use that downward turn as slack and brings the wire up into the next box. You would need another half stud to mount the box to but this way you only really need about 3 inches. Good luck either way.
post #64 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffy View Post

What kind of light switches are those?

Yes, Lutron Spacer.

It seems that everything in the build comes with a story, so here is the story on my switches.

In the very begining (no, not BC just the beginning of my basement build) I decided the lighting for my theater. Unfortunately, it was before I discovered this forum. I went to the "pros" to disscuss my thoughts and they sold me the Lutron switches (I think this was the first thing I purchased in the entire build).

From left to right in the picture above

1. Master control SPS 5WC WH (to control all the switches)
2. Standard dimmer SPS 600 WH (to control cans above screen)
3. Two way dimmer SPS 600M WH (to control rope light around tray ceiling (with another switch located at the other entrance to the theater)).
4. Standard dimmer SPS 600 WH (to control front sconces)
5. Standard dimmer SPS 600 WH (to control rear sconces)
6 Standatrd dimmer SPS 600 WH (to control cans over third row bar table.

When I ordered I was VERY clear what I needed yet after I received and read up, the SPS 5WC master is only lised to control 4 switches on one side of it not 5 as I wanted. The salesman said they did this regularly and there shouldn't be an issue. They also sent me all standand switches without the one two-way that I needed.

Fast forward many months when I went to instaill and realized I had the wrong switches, I contacted Lutron directly. I had already broken off the relation with the first company I was working with as it appeared my 15-20K equipment and 7K funiture budget wasn't enough to waist his time. If I get the urge to type another note I will explain all that but back to the switches.

So, when talking to Lutron directly, they said I would need a different master controler (SPS 5WCR WH) that contains wires an a transmitting device that passes the signal from the master to all of the switches in the box. If you look closely in the pic above the fourth switch from the left has two little tabs on the top. The transmitting device sits on top of the middle switch in the group to transmit to all.

So when I received the replacments, I finally worked up the courage to wire this crazy box. It was not particularly deep as another box is directly behind it in the game room and with so many wires it was very tight.

I was again VERY clear with the Lutron rep that I had a six gang box that I was using. After installing I found that this master switch was not intended to be located in the same box as the switches it controls. The transmitting device actually interfers with it's own performane if located in the same box. I then read the instructions and confirmed my fears. So now I had to pull this tightly packed box back apart to put the origianl master in and try it. Thankfully the original master works like a charm for 5 dimmers to one side of it...

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaa that was a pain in the rear.

Now for those of you that haven't fallen asleep with the above, and are not familar with the scene buttons on the lutron SPS, the master works just like the preset on your car radio stations. You set your individual dimmers to the intensity you want them then simply press and hold one of the master's 4 scene buttons until in starts blinking. When you later put that scene button, all of the lights it control will return to the set levels. It also can be remotely controled. The top button turns all the switches on and the bottom turns them all off. There are other features but this has been long and boring enough post.

The moral of this story is don't buy anything without researching and understanding yourself. Looking back, I probably would have went with a touch screen control and located the actual switches in another room.

I also would have planned for the light control for my riser. Still haven't figured out what I am going to do there yet. I will probably put a switch on the back of the third row bar table and control via remote.
post #65 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Ok, so another not so quick story I have to share.

Planning a theater as part of my finishing my basement. Go to the "pros" (Company A) in town and show them my plans and start collecting info. Met a few times over a few months. Bought switches and roughly a grand in wire from them. I called back one day to talk to the guy I had worked with and he was no longer with the company... UG

Looked up the guy in the phone book and called him at home. He referred me to another guy that worked for company A. Met with him once. To get him up to speed, then set an appointment to meet him at a later date. When that date arrived, I called in the AM to confirm time and then showed up as scheduled. He was with a WALK IN client and I would have to wait. (guess he didn't understand the concept of appointment). Waited fifty minutes (yes 50 minutes) to talk to this guy...

Amazingly I kept it cool and explained exactly what I needed.

Projector, receiver, power management, some type of up converting DVD player and speakers including 1 sub. (7.1)

Budget at the time was 12k.

When we were discussing he was trying to get me to look at his $3,500 sub.

Yo dude, 12k budget... for everything... $3500 sub??? maybe not.

A week or two later I received a quote for $12,600...

...

...

...

wait for it...

...

that didn't contain ANY speakers!!!!

are you kidding me!!!!

I thankfully found a local, smaller store that understood what I was trying to accomplish that I am now extremely happy with.

When test driving Burkliners, I had to go back into company A and unfortunately ran into the same salesman. He asked how I was doing and how the project was going... I wanted to sit in a few chairs and get out of there ASAP so I told him I received his quote and he somehow forgot to include SPEAKERS!!!

His jaw dropped to the floor not understanding this... I told him to go look at his quote while I sat in some chairs. When he came back, he didn't know what to say... "I don't know what happened"

Then I tried to just get out of there and he pressed for what I was doing. I told him I found another place and was moving on. He then tried to make me feel guiltly and asked why I didn't give him a call so I then opened up on him. He repeatedly mentioned in his discussions on how busy he was on bigger projects (not that mine wasn't important)...Making me wait 50 minutes for him to sell me something and that my 12k wasn't worth him time... and so fourth.

Company A sells their Burkliners at literly twice the price you can get them from through this fourm or other places for that matter. I bought them locally as I had a connection that beat even my on-line quote (without knowing what that quote was I might add) but this is just another dig at Company A. I could have spent well over 20k in that store and now all the sold me was some wire and some (wrong) switches.

Ok, venting over... back to the regularly scheduled programming.
post #66 of 1060
Thread Starter 
So, based on the previous pics and posts, should I use my riser as a base trap. I will admit that acoustics is a subject that gets over my head in a hurry and I am not planning ANY acoustic soltuions at this point. I am not very worried about sound transfer as bedrooms are two floors away so I didn't do double dry wall, green glue, or staggered studs.

Basically, when I am done, I will have a dry walled rectangular box that will be carpeted, have a riser and six burkliners. That's it. Untreated drywall and a triple sliding glass door in the rear of the room will definately have some sound issues. I know it would be better to do it all at once, but I go down the acousitic path, I may never finish the basement!!! Besides once finished, I can have the room tested, and essentially tuned with treatments... Right???

Adding panel/GOM or surface traps are not that hard to do after the fact but re-doing the riser would be. Based on my third row bar plan, opening to the back off the room would not be very attractive so would putting large holes in the front do me any good. They will be filled with insulation of course but not sure if it will make much difference. 1/4 slots in the surface of the riser worries me as a squeek issue (probably me just being dumb).

I am plainning 7.1 with a single sub but with 2 sets of side surronds. I have prewired for second sub but with second kid now on the way, it is less and less likely.
post #67 of 1060
Thread Starter 
So as mentioned above, I bought my theater switched WAY too early on in the process but I have them in now so I will have to make it work.

The six gang box is just across the isle and slightly behing the front row of seating. The lutron SPS switches are IR controled. I plan on a harmony 1 remote. When Originally planned, I was told to run cat 5e from the 6 gang box to the equipment closet and then from the equiment closet to the front of the room. I would be putting some type of sensor in the front of the room to carry the IR signal from the remote pointing at the front of the room to both the equipment closet and the switches.

I don't get it. Will I need to put one of the little pads that carry the signal to the front surface of the master controlled or will I be able to put some type of signal transmitter in the gang box that the cat 5e will be able to carry the IR signal to the master light controller??? I could point the remote at the 6-gang box but I want to be able to control equpment and lighting at the same time.

thanks.
post #68 of 1060
Looks like it's coming along nicely Drew. Your house and deck look awesome. And congrats to your Red Wings. Looks like they'll have a repeat next year, after signing Hossa. I'm an Ottawa guy, so I applaud that move, while at that same time wondering if we'll ever get a shot at the Cup.

I'll subscribe to your thread and keep updated
post #69 of 1060
I have a question that I've never really asked about the lutron spacer system... all the switches are IR... so if I use a harmony remote, how am I supposed to tell switch 1 to go to 50% and switch 2 to go to 10%... or if by scenes, how does the remote know which scene goes with which switch??
post #70 of 1060
You can't be a hero without adversity. Way to buck up and take it like a man.

Atta' boy!

Tom
post #71 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronlinkous View Post

I have a question that I've never really asked about the lutron spacer system... all the switches are IR... so if I use a harmony remote, how am I supposed to tell switch 1 to go to 50% and switch 2 to go to 10%... or if by scenes, how does the remote know which scene goes with which switch??

I believe you are controlling the "master" via IR and it controls the other switches in the bank. Other than that I don't know.

As I said, I didn't do much research when purchasing and my local HT guy said he can make it work so I left it at that. I am just hoping I don't need to put one of these sticky transmitters on the face of the master switch as I questioned in my switch post.
post #72 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

You can't be a hero without adversity. Way to buck up and take it like a man.

Atta' boy!

Tom

Yea, I have taken a few on the chin but I am still beating this project down.
post #73 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaXXXima View Post

And congrats to your Red Wings. Looks like they'll have a repeat next year, after signing Hossa. I'm an Ottawa guy, so I applaud that move, while at that same time wondering if we'll ever get a shot at the Cup.

We should be strong next year. It's funny I am a Red Wing Junkie during the season but don't follow much of the signings/trades in the off season. I heard we just signed two more players back to 3-year deal but I could tell you who they were. I sort of that the off season off myself from the game. My neighbor was telling me about the Hossa deal.

We don't have a New Year's eve game this year (as we generally do) but we are playing outside in Rigley field on Jan 1st. That ought to be cool.
post #74 of 1060
OK, I may have to re-think this hero thing if your going to go all Red Wings on a Flyers fan. There are some things you just can't compromise on.
post #75 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Oh how they want out of their boxes!!!



Monitor Audio

Front RS6
Center RSLCR
Surround RSFX (two pair)
Rear C280 (in ceiling)
post #76 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Well, still haven't found sconces...

Need 4. Here is the right wall pic



The bump out on that side of the room is 8'9" and I wanted to get both a sconce light and two surround speakers. The surrounds end up being a little close together but I didn't want to get them too close to the side of the bump out either. You can see the wires for the speakers here.



Now I am trying to find a sconce that give a fairly narrow light patter so I am not lighting up the speakers. I know there are tons to choose from, just haven't found one I want yet. I found one in another of the threads (show me your sconces or something) but then couldn't find a U.S. place to purchase.. I don't really want to pay $250-300 a piece if I can help it but who knows at this point. Just another decision that hasn't been made yet...
post #77 of 1060


I think that if you separate the L/R speakers a bit and reduce the toe in angle that your overall sound field will improve. Otherwise looks great to me.
post #78 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


I think that if you separate the L/R speakers a bit and reduce the toe in angle that your overall sound field will improve. Otherwise looks great to me.

Also, slitting the cellophane tape on the top with an Xacto knife really opens up the sound field
post #79 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post



I think that if you separate the L/R speakers a bit and reduce the toe in angle that your overall sound field will improve. Otherwise looks great to me.


LOLS. Going to be tight sitting in the middle of those surrounds, but if he curls up into a fetal position, it might help.
post #80 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


I think that if you separate the L/R speakers a bit and reduce the toe in angle that your overall sound field will improve. Otherwise looks great to me.

LOL... I hate to even admit this but having the "great one" (Big) respond to my thread... I actually was reading this as actual advise for about 45 seconds

I read quickly and was thinking separation of the two side surrounds... and then read again and thought... wait... he said "L/R....

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Then the light went on that you were talking about the boxes...

DUHHHHHH

Oh, well. Got a good laugh at myself...

Big, with x billion posts you could probably mess with people and suggest they turn their L/R speakers upside down and they would give it some serious consideration. (That's from one of the "little people"...)

We're not worthy...(bowing down, of course).

I really need to get away from the computer and back down stairs.
post #81 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

LOL... I hate to even admit this but having the "great one" (Big) respond to my thread... I actually was reading this as actual advise for about 45 seconds

I read quickly and was thinking separation of the two side surrounds... and then read again and thought... wait... he said "L/R....

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Then the light went on that you were talking about the boxes...

DUHHHHHH

Oh, well. Got a good laugh at myself...

Big, with x billion posts you could probably mess with people and suggest they turn their L/R speakers upside down and they would give it some serious consideration. (That's from one of the "little people"...)

We're not worthy...(bowing down, of course).

I really need to get away from the computer and back down stairs.


And not to push my luck, since I'm only 50+ posts new on here (but an internet veteran)... but you'll have to let go of his nuts first...
post #82 of 1060
Or if you have enough slack just move your box out into that leg of the bar
post #83 of 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPh Drew View Post

I believe you are controlling the "master" via IR and it controls the other switches in the bank. Other than that I don't know.

As I said, I didn't do much research when purchasing and my local HT guy said he can make it work so I left it at that. I am just hoping I don't need to put one of these sticky transmitters on the face of the master switch as I questioned in my switch post.

That's correct. The master switch stores 4 scenes. For example, scene 1 might be dimmr 1 @ 50%, dimmer 2 @ 70%, and dimmer 3 @10%. Your remote would communicate with the master to initiate scene 1, which would then pass this information on to the individual dimmer units.
post #84 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Ok, after great deliberation, I think I have finally decided on the riser step.

My initial plan was to build a platform similar to how WOOlly (post 123-127 of his thread) has done (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post11661499) that would be in the isle. When building, I changed my mind to just create a cut in step (the one on the right side of this picture).



Then, after much reviewing in this forum, I decided to open up the step to the front corner of the riser to make it a little bigger.



I was already to finish my cut in step when I finally get high speed and read WOOly's thread. I planned what he has now, and he planned what I have now and he said he hated it. Hate is a strong word so I have been thinking and rethinking this....

Ok, back to the options.

1. Cut in step like I have above.
2. Platform the fills the isle
3. Surface step that extends out from the riser into the isle.

The major drawback to #1 as I have it now, is that there is a recliner just behind that step. I am afraid that you will get out of the chair only to fall into the step hole.

The main issue to the platform that fills the isle (#2 above) is that I'm not sure if I want to step up and then back down to get to the front row all the time. I also have all my switches installed right where the platform would be making the switches seem 6 inches lower when standing on the platform. I also have a soffit around the perimeter of the room and the ceiling height under it is 7'10". Build a 6" platform and now I am down to 7'4". Still not bad for my 6' frame but I don't want the sensation I am getting close to the ceiling either.



I really don't like the idea of #3 as I think it would be a pain to always walk around.

Ok, sitting down to type this I was going to go with option #1 but now that I have typed this and thought about it some more, I think I am going back down there to stare at this step some more...

I think I will refer to this step as "Logan" from this point forward as it is slowing me down tremendously...

post #85 of 1060
If you light the step as it is now, either with rope or the accent lighting (louvered light) from the back side I think you'll be ok.

The other option for me would be #3 as I would not like to have to go up then down for the 1st row as you suggest.

I would also make that front step on the left as wide as that section of the riser, can't recall if that's the size you were planning for that step.
post #86 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the quick reply. I almost went up and asked the wife's opinion... and that never ends well...

I will definately light. The last time I checked (with myself and my ever changing plans) I think I am using rope lighting.

I don't think I ever mentioned it but that front step will be as wide as the riser.

I HAVE to move forward so I think I am going to stick with option 1.

Thanks again.
post #87 of 1060
I vote for #1.


NO, WAIT....#3


No, #1.



OK, just a second let me think....you should do #2.

OK, no, I was just kiddding around...number 3. Definitely, number 2.

Is there an "A"?


Don't let ME hold you up or anything.
post #88 of 1060
Thread Starter 
Since my projector is still in the box (as is all my other equipment) the wife and I went to see Dark Knight last night. We don't go to the movies very often but my six year old had her first sleep over last night at a neighbors so we took the opportunity to go.

As the lights began to dim I leaned over to my wife and said, "just think, soon we will be able to watch this at home."

Now we have been married over 10 years so you think I would anticipate her response but I didn't. I was expecting the "if you ever finish" spiel but instead it was, "Yea but it won't be the same."

???

She really doesn't have any clue what is going on down there. She mentioned something on the line about the sound but then again, I never did show her the receipt for my speakers...

She is at least partially right:

We will be able to pause a 2.5 hour movie to take a quick leak without missing anything.
We won't have to deal with the group of 4 that comes in late and wants people in the row behind us to move seats so they can get 4 chairs in a row.
We won't have to deal with those same 4 that are now seated in the middle of the rows having to take not one, but two bathroom breaks (did I mention that one of them was wearing a walking cast!!!)

On second thought, she is right... It won't be the same....
post #89 of 1060
LOL. Don't give in and try to explain it to her. Just hurry up and finish the theater and SHOW her. She will get it once she has a chance to really experience it. The dream has been rattling around in your head for quite some time, so you'll need to bring her along.

Now the risk here is that you may not be able to bring her around. If that's the case, then you'll need to hide all of the receipts and stop buying toys for the theater for a while because your "dream theater" will be a "money pit" in her mind.

If that winds up being the case, at least you'll be able to say you kicked Logan's butt.

CJ
post #90 of 1060
I hung the projector in my unfinished HT room 3.5 years ago. We started watching movies even before the carpet was in. The whole movie experience is so much better at home than going to the local multiplex that she hasn't asked once to go see a new release.
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