2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ - Page 506

All this "friendly" LED and Laser discussion and >> I see no discussion on frequency/wavelength ????

Good luck with that discussion. First, one needs to understand the difference between lasers and LEDs.
Edited by Augerhandle - 8/1/12 at 5:09pm

Well, nobody replied to my query about the above fan but I finally received it today. It works and fits great.

I am just astounded at the TOTAL BS that Low Tech is trying to pass off as knowledge. It is painfully obvious that he doesn't understand what coherent light means, and why laser diodes are not the same as LEDs, and that narrow band emitters are not monochromatic and not coherent.

Thanks to Augerhandle for setting things straight; saves me the trouble of making a similar post. As someone who has used both ion lasers and diode lasers for many years in my work, I can't help but gag at the complete crap that Low Tech is spewing.
Edited by cosmicvoid - 8/5/12 at 1:10am

From what I have gathered.

Wave length in nm:

R2 611 - 615
R3 615 - 619
R4 619 - 623
R5 623 - 627
R6 627 - 631
R7 631 - 635

G2 510 - 515
G3 515 - 520
G4 520 - 525
G5 525 - 530
G6 530 - 535
G7 535 - 540
G8 540 - 545

B4 450 - 455
B5 455 - 460
B6 460 - 465
B7 465 - 470
B8 470 - 475

Note 3: Current Density of 2.5 A/mm2. Rated at 50% duty cycle and Pulsed operation frequency of f>360Hz;

Note 6: Minimum and Maximum Dominant Wavelengths are based on typical values +/- 5nm for Red, +/- 8nm for Green and +/- 6nm for Blue.

Note 12: Caution must be taken not to stare at the light emitted from these LEDs. Under special circumstances, the high intensity could damage the eye.
Edited by Low Tech - 8/5/12 at 5:46am

I was stating that LED and Laser Diodes or similar devices, and that it is cost effective now these days to produce focused high output LED devices to perform like a Laser Diodes.

The first LED Laser was produced by Fairchild Semiconductor some time in the 80's.

(From: devnull@angelfire.com.)

Actually, I've gotten excellent collimation off the standard high-lumen turquoise LED (21k lumens), the divergence angle is actually much less than say the TEC cooled 500 mW Polaroid laser diodes. Mine was from a Photon Light, only the turquoise one works, the rest don't have proper uniformity/divergence. I believe you can buy the raw LEDs for $2 to $3.

Using a couple of 0.5" diameter tech-spec lenses and a 10" dia. solid glass photocopy lens, I read about 2 mW of output power off the collimated LED beam, which is pencil thin at the aperture and grows to about 2" diameter at 20 yards. I had to laugh as I have some real lasers which don't have that nice of collimation.

If you want proof of concept, just grab 2 convex lenses and collimate the beam. I tested the idea out with 2 - ~4" magnifying lenses I had lying around. The rather amazing results led me to hunt for the perfect LED collimation.

I can get the beam waist at output to be needle-then, but the best collimation I can get is with a slightly larger output diameter. This is probably due to the first large lens which I'm using to capture most of the light.

Both you and Augerhandle fail to explain anything more than Lasers are Lasers, and LEDs are LEDs. Well if you go by the terminology without diving into design and function, the statement is true.

But I have been explaining that LED technology is not limited as you both put it.

Both Mits laserview and Sammy LED DLP reproduce an image from a narrow beam of light.

Sammy uses a lens structure to channel and focus light from each LED into a very narrow beam.

Now explain the laser diode in the Mits the both of you fail at explaining.

From what I understand the Mits Laserview uses a Laser diode.... do you know what a laser diode is???

The new LED tech in the Series 7 Sammy is considered a super luminescent diode - Their spatial coherence is high like laser diodes and do not generate as much speckle noise as laser diodes.

No, you stated that there was no way lasers would be used in RPTVs;

and that Mitsubishi uses LEDs, but just calls them lasers

Since your post was challenged and proven wrong, you have done nothing but backpedal and try to BS your way out. You were wrong. Deal with it like an adult.

See my previous post, which explained what a laser diode is and is not. (with pictures) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1029686/2008-samsung-hl61a750-led-dlp-owners-thread-and-faq/15120#post_22269548

I would recommend that you take some classes, and in the meantime, quit trying to paraphrase things you obviously don't understand.


The issue was and always has been your statement that Mitsubishi doesn't use lasers in their LaserVue TVs. That statement has been proven false, and nothing that you have posted since that time has changed that fact.

Yes you have pointed out information I used to explain in various aspects to our discussion. At time our discussion started all you had done to explain yourself was a warning label, the acronym LASER, and your vague reference to incoherent light.

The acronym can be used for just about any electronic device that produces light.

I have made some not so thought out points as to weed out and open up what you truly know... Arrogance does not show me much for your knowledge when you lack the ability to back it up when challenged. You take a highly defensive posture buy being so.

Like was I to explain how incoherent light effects proper image reproduction?

I guess we both have been over simplified at various levels.

Though, again you don't understand that the LEDs used in the Sammy DLP are made to be pulse modulated at full amplitude with in a very narrow bandwidth of light. Which negates most all incoherent light issues between Laser and LED. In fact should be just as good if not better in performance than laser diodes in certain applications.

So with that being understood, amplitude and phase do not change like incoherent light during operation. This is a specification fairly new and available only by its unique design.

I was politely trying my best to explain LED technology has surpassed (growing every year) your understanding, and how it can be used to produce light very similar to a laser.

Even though Samsungs LED DLP does not use a laser diode, it is a beginning to LEDs entry to becoming a component to laser technology. Which seems very narrow minded to rule out.

Deny or incorporate that in to your knowledge base. I knew I was going to strike a nerve with those who read my first post on comparing the to TVs.
Edited by Low Tech - 8/6/12 at 6:30am

No, it can't. The acronym stands for Light Amplification by the Stimulation and Emmission of Radiation. LEDs are electronic and produce light. They are not lasers. More BS. Pulse modulation is nothing new (except maybe to you, in your recent reading). The fact remains that LEDs are not lasers and Mitsubishi LaserVue TVs have lasers. I backed that up in several posts More BS. How is spewing BS considered being polite? It's called lying where I come from.. LEDs in your Samsung are not lasers. No amount of BS will change that. The only nerve you struck was the BS alert (and maybe a funny bone) when you tried to say that no RPTVs used lasers. That statement proved that you didn't know what you were talking about, and your follow up posts continue to prove it. Instead of acknowledging that your statement was wrong, you continued with your side-stepping BS that never supported your false statement that there are no Lasers in RPTVs.

There are lasers in Mitsubishis LaserVue TVs. Move on already.
Edited by Augerhandle - 8/6/12 at 8:32am

The acronym, does work for a lot of light producing devices.

Emission, to radiate.
Stimulation, electronic flow with in the substrate
Radiation, energy partical movement through space.
Light Amplification, intensify light

Light Amplification by the Stimulation and Emmission of Radiation

Explains what a LED does... though LASER has been coined long before the first LED.

LEDs can be modulated, though as I was stating the newer LED used in the Samsung produces a more like coherent light over other LEDs for the design and use.

After all you brought up coherent light as one of your main issues. Once I state that the LED that drives Samsung tvs are capable of coherent light you go and twist things around again.

I never said LEDs were lasers as you put it... just are able to utilize them in laser applications.

The only reason I have replied, is that for those who read though, will see what I have clarified. To you it is all wrong, and I can't help you with that.
Edited by Low Tech - 8/6/12 at 9:15am

No, it doesn't.
No, they aren't.

Yes, you did, actually.

You just keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

Edited by Augerhandle - 8/13/12 at 1:46pm

I had an issue back in June (posted earlier) where I would get the "Not Available" message on my screen and it wouldn't go away. The picture was fine but the message stayed there and the TV would not function by any remote or side panel button pushes. Well, the problem went away four days later but I still had a tech come out under warranty and he said he would replace the main board anyway. They finally got the part in and will be coming out in two weeks to do the swap. My concern is that the TV may not look as good or some other minor issues may pop up as a result of the board replacement. Should I just cancel the install since the TV is working now? I guess if I knew what was involved in replacing the board, that would help. Is it a simple plug and play or will the tech need to do a full calibration or other tweaking? The TV is just perfect right now and I'm worried it won't look the same after a tech has been in there messing around. Advice please!

It should be simple plug and play, I think. But the new board will have the factory default settings, so if you have tweaked your settings, you should write down all the values you are using now, to save yourself experimenting again.

It seems like a tough choice; if you think the problem won't recur, then keep the board you have. If you suspect it may keep happening, then go for the replacement and take your chances. Not helpful advice, I know . If you have actually had a full professional calibration done (I have), then it may be better to keep the board you have, unless you know all the places that the pro made changes to. I wouldn't let a service tech mess with any serious calibration; it takes training, experience, and a set of specialized equipment to analyze your color response.
Edited by cosmicvoid - 8/14/12 at 2:43am

Thanks for the info. If it is just plug and play, perhaps I can replace the board myself if it does happen again? If all it takes is a few screws and plugging stuff back on the board, seems simple enough. I just wasn't sure if it required some special tweaking or a magic wand after putting the board in. I'm leaning towards leaving it alone at this point.

I've been reading some past posts in this thread and saw where certian adjustments of various components were required after replacing a main board. One member here posted his experience about the picture looking worse after the tech just swapped the main board and did nothing more than a factory reset. Since this would be a warranty repair for me, I'm not confident about this being done right since the service requests usually go to the lowest bidder.

Can anyone verify or shed light on the main board replacement procedure? I just have that sinking feeling that if I do have this done, I will never be happy with the picture again.

NEED HELP WITH CRACKED SCREEN.

So my two year old decided to throw a hard plastic toy microphone at my HL61A750. Now, I have two cracks running up from the bottom of the screen. I've read up a little on replacing the screen. It appears there are actually two screens, a lenticular and a fresnel. Samsung sells the parts for like $198 a piece.

My questions are how do I know if I need to replace both screens and is there an off-brand manufacturer to buy them from? At ths point in the life of the tv, I would hate to put in 400-500 bucks for repairs. That's assuming that I can do the repair myself without screwing it up!

Any help is much appreciated.

I've been absent from this thread for quite some time now and am sorry to see all of this bickering.

I look at both you "Low Tech" and "Augerhandle" as 'forum buddies' as we have backed-up/helped each other in the past. I will not be taking sides, but rather help resolve this dispute by providing some basic insight.

"Low Tech", your statements as quoted above are correct. Phlatlight LEDs as found in our Sammys are not your typical LEDs. They were engineered at MIT using what is called "photonic lattice technology". They were invented to provide the power of lasers with the benefit and simplicity of a solid state light source.

Now does that make a collimated Phlatlight a true laser...well that depends how we define a laser (more liberally or technically). Technically a Phlatlight LED is highly, yet not perfectly, coherent. Therefore it should still be considered an incoherent diffuse light source...and collimated diffuse light sources still do not equate to *true lasers* by the strictest of definitions.

However, will a collimated Phlatlight's beam look like a laser?...yes...
Will it sear a hole through your retina if you were to look into its beam?...instantly...
Will it ignite combustible materials such as paper?...easily...
Can it burn a hole through a chunk of styrofoam...certainly...

Check out the videos @ YouTube of guys doing some of these things using Phlatlights as their photon source.

The Mitsu LaserVue does use actual Class IV lasers within its design. They are pulsed @10kHz (equivalent performance to a 166x color wheel).
The collimated Phlatlights within our Sammys, although not true lasers, do in fact adequately substitute what was once thought to be a "laser only" design application. They are pulsed @2.9kHz (= to a 48x color wheel).

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:mUmb6sEYD6gJ:docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/1073/0900766b81073510.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgd5tXtrv7anNeTote-pbAfKPY-tZQphV31IfHptr8BjfwN-ZoXKfsW1oz7fG6l1APF97IMwGbPAEkH9QBmx2ds2ppwDKu_H5PNk1IwqjkJfwSycK7lkA8Xt8u4GaI9jqlu2I6d&sig=AHIEtbTDWIWjl0hEK9KQtYaL3rW7gF18KA

*post edited for spelling/grammar corrections
Edited by KewlK - 9/6/12 at 9:07am

OK, we know that the outer screen (the lenticular) is toast. There is a slight possibility that the fresnel is salvageable. Turn on the TV and display a decent test pattern (for example the DVE sharpness adjustment screen). Now gently yet firmly poke around the perimeter of each crack. The inner fresnel will glide independently just enough for you to notice whether it is damaged as well.

lenticular part#: BP67-00344A
fresnel " " " ": BP67-00361A

Google those part #s and you'll be able to do better than $198 per screen.
Edited by KewlK - 9/6/12 at 10:08am

Exactly my point. As for strictness of definitions, a woman is either pregnant or she is not. There is no liberal or less strict definition. A laser is only a laser if it lases, and LEDs (including SLEDs and phlatlight LEDs) do not lase.

http://www.rp-photonics.com/superluminescent_diodes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superluminescent_diode#Availability_of_SLEDs

For the record, I never stated that there was anything wrong with Samsung's LED DLPs. Low Tech stated that NO television used lasers, and then stated that Samsung used lasers, but called them something else. Both statements can't be true and in fact, neither are. I have simply tried to repudiate those false claims, because people come to AVS forums looking for facts, not BS.
Edited by Augerhandle - 9/10/12 at 11:30am

I somehow overlooked your original post. Thermaltake is known for their quality.

Glad that you're happy with it. Should help keep the more heat sensitive red LED better cooled.

Ron, happy that I found your post. Makes me a little more optimistic about what to expect.

The only issue that I'm still concerned about is checkerboard 3D compatibility.

Darbeevision is understandably uncertain if the darblet will function between a 3DA-1000 (or 3DA-1) and TV. They could not provide a definitive answer as to whether or not the checkerboard format can even be passed through the device.

The reality so far seems to be that the darblet can process every major 3D standard with the exception of checkerboard. If that is the case, it's still not a deal breaker...but disappointing nonetheless.

I have been using the Darblett for the past month and also feel that it is like getting a brand new TV. I don't run 3d but it is amazing how much it improves the picture. My settings are 60 POP (RED) for Cox Cable and 45 HD (Green) for Blu-Ray.

What the heck is a Darblett??

I have three of them. They work, beautifully.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/59276-darbee-visual-presence-darblet-42.html#post549378

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet

Thanks I just purchased one. Hopefully it will be a good replacement for my Algolith HDMI Flea. the darblet certainly costs much less than the almost $1k my FLEA cost five years ago.

It will be worth it just for the improvements to regular 2D HD content. I've read several accounts of it dramatically improving SD source material as well.

Still crossing my fingers on checkerboard compatibility. I'll know for sure very soon.
Edited by KewlK - 9/24/12 at 1:29pm

Great news! The darblet is in fact fully compatible with checkerboard 3D!!!

I placed it in between the 3DC-1000 and TV. Played a quick game of Super Stardust in 3D on the PS3 and could not believe the increase in intricate details and 3D depth perception.

This visual effect is definitely not something attainable through standard edge enhancement; nor any amount of sharpness/contrast/gamma control tinkering. The darblet is something very special and it's worth every penny.

I have no glitches to report, both 2D & 3D content function flawlessly. There is one minor inconvenience though: ...If the darblet is fed by a device which emits the "always on" signal (such as the 3DC-1000), it will not power off unless unplugged. Pressing the on/off button is useless.

NEED HELP!!

My Samsung 61" just shut off suddenly. After trying to power back up, it won't power. It tries. Lights in front come on. It chimes. But the led inside turns on for about a second and then shuts off. After this, the TV shuts off and cycles for about 10 minutes. Finally, all 3 lights on front begin blinking. I've tried a new P-SMPS board, but that did not fix the problem. TV stills shuts down and cycles.

Can anyone help me out? Samsung has been worthless so far....