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The BH 200 DD+ bitstreaming issue... - Page 3

post #61 of 139
I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Hmmm . . . my HTPC is connected via TOSLINK . . . dare I risk the update by directly playing the WAV file?
post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpat View Post

I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)

I will attempt over the weekend and report back . . .
post #63 of 139
Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)
post #64 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshallmedia View Post

Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)

I had this problem with my HD DVD copy of Pan's Labyrinth which has a DTS MA soundtrack. However, it played fine on my second attempt.
post #65 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshallmedia View Post

Just hooked up my new LG BH200. February build, I updated it with the April firmware (not the June one). Audio is optical out to a Pioneer VSX-14 receiver (which does not have HDMI inputs). Threw a regular DVD in, an HD-DVD, and a Blu Ray DVD, and spot-checked all three. I am not hearing anything resembling a helicopter noise, lawnmower noise, boat noise, etc. When does that tend to occur, so I can try to replicate? (either that or I should just assume I don't have the problem and don't worry about it!)

LOL. You need an HDMI 1.3 receiver that support latest HD codecs and set BH200 to bitstream. It only happens with DD+.
post #66 of 139
Thread Starter 
Discovered something new yesterday.

I've stated in the past about problems with the DD+ and the DTS on an HD DVD having the same motorboat issue with my Onkyo 705. I just figured it was all HD DVD related.

However when I was watching my STARGATE BD this weekend, I listened to the DTS HR track and it had the same problem with the helicopter sound, mistaking the signal for a PCM signal. Now all I did was turn the receiver off/on and it went away, but this was the first it happened on a BD.

So in sum i've had the problem on HD DVD with DD+ and DTS and now on a BD with DTS HR. I have never had a problem with legacy DD, TRUEHD or DTSMA.
post #67 of 139
I played 2001: A Space Odyssey HD DVD yesterday, and it defaulted to the DD+ track. My BH200 is bitstreaming to my Onkyo 606. The audio was fine - no helicopter noise stuff. I switched over to the TrueHD track, and it sounded pretty well the same - I didn't do a serious comparison, I just happened to notice the DD+ lit up on the receiver.

Just a reference point - I guess the newer Onkyo's have firmware that handles whatever isn't quite right from the BH200, or maybe the way 2001:ASO is encoded for DD+ it isn't an issue.

shinksma
post #68 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by davcole View Post

So in sum i've had the problem on HD DVD with DD+ and DTS and now on a BD with DTS HR. I have never had a problem with legacy DD, TRUEHD or DTSMA.

It is definitely a DTS issue, not an HD DVD issue. I suspect something about the way the BH200 outputs simply confuses the Onkyos. Incidentally, I have had similar issues (no sound or no center channel) with my two HD DVD players (A2 and XA2) as well. In all cases, restarting the receiver or everything usually fixed it. And the disc I had the motorboating with was DTS MA (Pan's Labyrinth).
post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

It is definitely a DTS issue, not an HD DVD issue. I suspect something about the way the BH200 outputs simply confuses the Onkyos. Incidentally, I have had similar issues (no sound or no center channel) with my two HD DVD players (A2 and XA2) as well. In all cases, restarting the receiver or everything usually fixed it. And the disc I had the motorboating with was DTS MA (Pan's Labyrinth).

FWIW, I have an Onkyo 805, and this happens with my Tosh A35, and somewhat all too often. But it only seems to happen with DD+ HD DVD movies, though I think I had a regular DVD do it too. So it is not the LG having the problem. It *MIGHT* be an HDMI handshaking problem, as when I turn off the A35, or I turn off the 805, the problem is fixed.
post #70 of 139
Im not too knowledgeable on codecs or whatever... But I get that helicopter noise every time I skip a chapter, a menu starts etc... I look at my crap HTiB and I see that the noise occurs while the HTiB is figuring out if it is a Dolby Digital track.
post #71 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Madness View Post

Im not too knowledgeable on codecs or whatever... But I get that helicopter noise every time I skip a chapter, a menu starts etc... I look at my crap HTiB and I see that the noise occurs while the HTiB is figuring out if it is a Dolby Digital track.

Have you tried it using PCM (internal decode of DD, DD+, and DD THD)? If not, that might help. But for DTS HD and DTS HDMA, you will need to bitstream or maybe try that rencode DTS mode.
post #72 of 139
My old HTiB is pretty decent. It's able to do dolby digital 5.1 and DTS-ES etc... It does not have HDMI so I have toslink going into it. I set it at bitstream I think because that sounded the best. Like I go 5.1 from it. If I dont set it at bitstream I dont think its 5.1 because then I can change the sound to stuff like stereo, pro logic 2, cinema, matrix etc... If its at bitstream it just says dolby digital or DTS.

But I'll try and set it at PCM to see a difference. I dont really mind the noise, its just that at night or when i have people over and I skip a chapter or it goes to the next "screen" or menu I get a loud 2 second helicopter like rip and it gets really annoying. It happens because there is like a splitsecond when my HTiB is trying to detect if its getting a 5.1 signal or regular audio etc...

I plan to get a new receiver soon. Is there any receivers out there that are immune to this or is it internally an LG problem?
post #73 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Madness View Post

I plan to get a new receiver soon. Is there any receivers out there that are immune to this or is it internally an LG problem?

It was mentioned that the Denon's seems to work best with this player. And lately, the horror stories some have had with Onkyo (but with the XX5 series, not yet with the XX6 series receivers) might make you hessitate. But both Denon and Onkyo are top receivers at decent prices.
post #74 of 139
I have an Onkyo 705, and I've never experienced this problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Rocky View Post

It was mentioned that the Denon's seems to work best with this player. And lately, the horror stories some have had with Onkyo (but with the XX5 series, not yet with the XX6 series receivers) might make you hessitate. But both Denon and Onkyo are top receivers at decent prices.
post #75 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by stpat View Post

I would think that would work nicely.

From what I've read, it will either work 100%, or the Onkyo 705 won't even start the upgrade process. The steps that you perform on the Onkyo essentially put it into a "listening for firmware upgrade" mode. Once it's "listening", you push play on the CD player (or in your case, start playing the wav file).

If the users DVD player does any re-coding of the audio, it will modify the header information in the file, and the Onkyo will not accept it.

Pretty fool proof (which is why they let end users do it themself.)

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.
post #76 of 139
That's really strange. It's been a little while since I did mine (April), but it was very straightforward, and I don't remember hitting any "gotchas"...



Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.
post #77 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.

Do you hear noise when you are playing back the CD? It should sound like an old dial up modem or fax. If you are not hearing that, you are burning the CD wrong, probably as a data cd instead of audio. I am assuming you properly extracted the .wav file to make the audio CD. If you do not have a .wav file, you haven't 'unzipped' the file yet.

Do you have any plain old CD players with optical out? That is the best way.
post #78 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Well, updating from the PC did not work for me. The receiver says "Updating . . " and never changes it's display. Thought I borked it at first, but just had to reset the inputs. After this failed attempt, I burned a CD and tried 3 different DVD players with no success. I followed the instructions (burned audio CD, hooked optical cable to Optical Input 1, followed the button presses, etc.) but no joy. Really confused at this point. Going to try to re-burn the CD with Deepburner, but I can't figure out why the 705 won't take the update.


I had the same problem. I went through several burns using two different brands of CD's, used three different programs to burn the cd's and tried 5 different dvd/cd players.

It ended up being the dvd/cd players. I got a cheap RCA dvd player from Meijer and it worked instantly.....go figure
post #79 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin803 View Post

It ended up being the dvd/cd players. I got a cheap RCA dvd player from Meijer and it worked instantly.....go figure

Mind sharing the model? I have tried 4 different players, my PC, reburned 3 times all to no avail. I can hear the audio when selecting the right input, but receiver still does not display "writing" at any time.
post #80 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Mind sharing the model? I have tried 4 different players, my PC, reburned 3 times all to no avail. I can hear the audio when selecting the right input, but receiver still does not display "writing" at any time.

I had the same problems as you until I used this DVD player.

RCA Model Number: DRC285
post #81 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin803 View Post

I had the same problems as you until I used this DVD player.

RCA Model Number: DRC285

Well, could not find this exact model, but found an RCA DRC277 at Target and this worked immediately. I had to run through the process twice; for som reason the first DSP did not get updated the first time through. However, after the second pass, all three are up to date. No more gunshot sounds during playback of the DTS HD Master track on Pan's Labyrinth!!!

Thanks for the pointer, Merlin!
post #82 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

Well, could not find this exact model, but found an RCA DRC277 at Target and this worked immediately. I had to run through the process twice; for som reason the first DSP did not get updated the first time through. However, after the second pass, all three are up to date. No more gunshot sounds during playback of the DTS HD Master track on Pan's Labyrinth!!!

Thanks for the pointer, Merlin!

Glad it worked for you!
post #83 of 139
This thread should be renamed, because it's clear that there is something wrong with the bitstream capability of the player, and it affects more than just DD+---it's obvious that what is happening is that the player is trying to bitstream and/or mix in menu sounds when it isn't supposed to, which is why it always occurs when you move between chapters and RW/FW (any cases where the menu is brought up).

I am just afraid of the potential damage that this noise may do to my speakers at higher volumes, since there have been a few instances when my speakers played the noise at -10dB. The noise I get doesn't resemble any kind of helicopter or motorboat sound though...it sounds like exaggerated and high-pitched pink or white noise.
post #84 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post

This thread should be renamed, because it's clear that there is something wrong with the bitstream capability of the player, and it affects more than just DD+---it's obvious that what is happening is that the player is trying to bitstream and/or mix in menu sounds when it isn't supposed to, which is why it always occurs when you move between chapters and RW/FW (any cases where the menu is brought up).

I am just afraid of the potential damage that this noise may do to my speakers at higher volumes, since there have been a few instances when my speakers played the noise at -10dB. The noise I get doesn't resemble any kind of helicopter or motorboat sound though...it sounds like exaggerated and high-pitched pink or white noise.

The issue is with the bitstreaming of DD+ and/or DTS-HR. Legacy (DD & DTS) and lossless (TrueHD & DTS-MA) bitstream fine, so the thread name is appropriate. Titles with DTS-HR are not nearly as common as DD+.

The issue you have is not the helicopter / motorboat issue we are talking about. You have another problem altogether...
post #85 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

The issue is with the bitstreaming of DD+ and/or DTS-HR. Legacy (DD & DTS) and lossless (TrueHD & DTS-MA) bitstream fine, so the thread name is appropriate. Titles with DTS-HR are not nearly as common as DD+.

The issue you have is not the helicopter / motorboat issue we are talking about. You have another problem altogether...

Well I guess I am not sure then, which problem it is that I have. But with my Onkyo 805 and while playing DD+ soundtracks on HD DVD movies (only), I see the Onkyo LCD screen go crazy for a few moments and then decide the signal it is getting through the HDMI port is now stereo when I unpause a movie and get a strange "chatter" or "modulating white noise" out of all my speakers. BUT!!! This happens with both my LG BH200 AND my Toshiba A35. So I DO NOT think this is specific to the LB200, but could be like what some are saying about other BD disks by certain studios = they mis-flag the audio, or it is a poor implementation, or could very well be an HDMI handshaking issue with Onkyo and certain other players when bitsreaming.

I just picked up a new Pioneer VSX-03TXH receiver, so will be testing that out shortly.
post #86 of 139
Ok, I now stand corrected! Went out and bought the new Pioneer VSX-03TXH, and it is a totally amazing receiver! I like it much better than my Onkyo 805 by far. BUT! Now I get this messed up sound out of every HD DVD movied I tried to play. The player is trying to send DTS HD or DD+ (Bone Collector), or DD+ (Transformers), and the Pioneer sees it coming in as regular stereo, and I get the static/hiss/helicopter noise non-stop. Tried both a Monoprice and a Monster HDMI cable, tried setting the source different (192>96>48), and none of that worked for bitstream. For the heck of it, I hooked up my Toshiba A35 - and it worked PERFECTLY!!!!!!

As much as I loved this BH200, I'd rather keep the Pioneer receiver (so as to sell the Onkyo), and so looks like the BH200 is going back unless LG can fix this??
post #87 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Rocky View Post

Well I guess I am not sure then, which problem it is that I have. But with my Onkyo 805 and while playing DD+ soundtracks on HD DVD movies (only), I see the Onkyo LCD screen go crazy for a few moments and then decide the signal it is getting through the HDMI port is now stereo when I unpause a movie and get a strange "chatter" or "modulating white noise" out of all my speakers. BUT!!! This happens with both my LG BH200 AND my Toshiba A35. So I DO NOT think this is specific to the LB200, but could be like what some are saying about other BD disks by certain studios = they mis-flag the audio, or it is a poor implementation, or could very well be an HDMI handshaking issue with Onkyo and certain other players when bitsreaming.

I just picked up a new Pioneer VSX-03TXH receiver, so will be testing that out shortly.

No problems like that with my Onkyo 805. Have you done the DSP update and firmware update? I'm at firmware 1.08 and the latest DSP and it works perfect bitstreaming every movie so far.
post #88 of 139
Has anybody ever directly linked this thread to someone at LG?

I tested an LGBH200 with 0702 driver but firmware out of the box (March Build) and it bitstreams DD+ just fine! It will not bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, but it no problem with DD+.

Once updated to the latest firmware, TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio can be bitstreamed, but not DD+. I get that motorboating/helicoptering sound.

Obviously the "fix" for bitstreaming the high rez formats has caused there to be a problem with DD+. The challenge this poses is that almost every HD-DVD out has a DD+ track as default (even on menus) and you must select TrueHD. Some don't even have a TrueHD track.

This is fixable by firmware, LG just has to KNOW about it and FIX it!

This is otherwise an outstanding player.

C'mon LG, we need new firmware!
post #89 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by fst96se View Post

Has anybody ever directly linked this thread to someone at LG?

I tested an LGBH200 with 0702 driver but firmware out of the box (March Build) and it bitstreams DD+ just fine! It will not bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, but it no problem with DD+.

Once updated to the latest firmware, TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio can be bitstreamed, but not DD+. I get that motorboating/helicoptering sound.

Obviously the "fix" for bitstreaming the high rez formats has caused there to be a problem with DD+. The challenge this poses is that almost every HD-DVD out has a DD+ track as default (even on menus) and you must select TrueHD. Some don't even have a TrueHD track.

This is fixable by firmware, LG just has to KNOW about it and FIX it!

This is otherwise an outstanding player.

C'mon LG, we need new firmware!


As I mentioned, I'm not having this problem at all when combined with my Onkyo SR805. I suspect it is a receiver firmware issue because with LG's June firmware and the 0702 driver, my system is working perfect bitstreaming DD+, TrueHD, DTSHD Master, etc.

My Onkyo is updated to the latest across the board.

I recommend everyone check to see if their receivers are current. The DSP update (to eliminate the DTS HD Master 'bomb') for the Onkyo receivers may also be the reason why I don't have this problem with DD+.
post #90 of 139
No more problems with my Onkyo 705 since updating DSPs. I am definitely streaming TrueHD, DTS HD MA and DD+ . . . no shotgun, pops or motorboating.
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