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best cd player under $3000? - Page 2

post #31 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by machani View Post

Pulliamm,
A couple of years ago you used to tout your $200 Onkyo C390 changer as the best player money could buy, since the sonics of any player higher up the line could not be audibly distinguised.

After you bought your Cambride Audio 340, you've upped your "threshold of audibilty differences" to $500

I suspect that if you ever take home an CA 740, you will once again up your threshold, this time to $1000

The things the 340C primarily gives me are outstanding build quality, quietness of operation, looks (especially in conjunction with the 340A), and longevity. I may have heard a slight improvement in sound, but it was small enough to be explained away by placebo effect. Who knows, for 10X the price I might get another 0.1% improvement.
post #32 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

A good CD player is a good CD player regardless of the rest of your system. (Of course, you will enjoy it more with a better system.)

Why is it that you will allow that there must at least be some tangible reasons that there can be a "better system", yet a "better" CD player is not one of those components that can contribute to a system being "better"?
post #33 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Why is it that you will allow that there must at least be some tangible reasons that there can be a "better system", yet a "better" CD player is not one of those components that can contribute to a system being "better"?

Because,beyond a certain point, CD players simply cannot get any better (as I said, that point is reached well below $500.) This is also true of amplification, though the point of exponentially diminishing returns is reached at a somewhat higher price point. 99.9% of a system's sound is the speakers, and even there it is possible to reach a point where further audible improvement cannot exist.
post #34 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Because,beyond a certain point, CD players simply cannot get any better (as I said, that point is reached well below $500.) This is also true of amplification, though the point of exponentially diminishing returns is reached at a somewhat higher price point. 99.9% of a system's sound is the speakers, and even there it is possible to reach a point where further audible improvement cannot exist.

Do you pull these numbers out of your butt? 99.9% of a system's sound is NOT the speakers.
post #35 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Do you pull these numbers out of your butt? 99.9% of a system's sound is NOT the speakers.

Ok, maybe it is only 99.8%.
The point is that almost any amp (including a reciever) will drive all but the most power-hungry speakers to their full potential, and almost any CDP will accurately decode all CDs. This leaves the speakers (and room, but I don't count that when discussing equipment) as the only possible source of most audible differences.
post #36 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Ok, maybe it is only 99.8%.
The point is that almost any amp (including a reciever) will drive all but the most power-hungry speakers to their full potential, and almost any CDP will accurately decode all CDs. This leaves the speakers (and room, but I don't count that when discussing equipment) as the only possible source of most audible differences.

I know the fact that you have tosses 8,000 or so posts on this board must make you think you are right, but really you coundn't be more wrong. Most receivers are compromised pieces of crap, and a) would not drive many speakers to their "full potential" and b)--Oh hell why am I even posting, you have no idea what full potential even sounds like.
post #37 of 156
I agree, i wouldn't trust any receiver to drive my 84db full range towers. Maybe one of those $3-4K superceivers can do it.
post #38 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

There may be a small grain of truth in that. It is also true, however, that there is a level beyond which no further improvements are audible. That level is reached below $500, and thus far, far below $3000.


How have you come to this conclusion?
post #39 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

Besides, everybody knows that CD players and vacuum tubes don't match.

Sure they do.... there are many good CD players that have a tube output stage.
post #40 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

How have you come to this conclusion?

Listening. Lots and lots of listening.

If I could replace my current system with one costing 10X as much at no charge to me (say by winning a sweepstakes), I am not sure that I would be very excited. The sound I hear every day is so good that it really doesn't leave any room for improvement. I have heard many, many extremely expensive systems that did not impress me in the slightest, compared to my much more affordable setup.

One of the reasons I have had so few posts recently is that I have about decided that the entire concept of "high-end audio" is a bunch of BS.
post #41 of 156
Pulliam, how old are you? I don't mean to come off as insulting towards you, but maybe you're just old and can't hear any differences. It's a fact that older males have very poor hearing, and it regresses rapidly after 40. My father is 74, and he wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between my B&W CM7's and a HTIB from K-mart. I also have to disagree that a receiver will drive just about any speaker to their full potential. My experience has been the exact opposite.
post #42 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by btf1980 View Post

Pulliam, how old are you? I don't mean to come off as insulting towards you, but maybe you're just old and can't hear any differences. It's a fact that older males have very poor hearing, and it regresses rapidly after 40. My father is 74, and he wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between my B&W CM7's and a HTIB from K-mart. I also have to disagree that a receiver will drive just about any speaker to their full potential. My experience has been the exact opposite.

My hearing has recently been tested (required annually where I work), and is flawless, the auditory equivalent of 20/20. When I was younger, I was fooled by the stereo magazines. At 45, I am wise enough not to buy into the "high end" myth anymore. Except for the deepest bass, I would gladly A/B my $1000 system against any 2.0 setup out there, regardless of price.
post #43 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Listening. Lots and lots of listening.

If I could replace my current system with one costing 10X as much at no charge to me (say by winning a sweepstakes), I am not sure that I would be very excited. The sound I hear every day is so good that it really doesn't leave any room for improvement. I have heard many, many extremely expensive systems that did not impress me in the slightest, compared to my much more affordable setup.

One of the reasons I have had so few posts recently is that I have about decided that the entire concept of "high-end audio" is a bunch of BS.

What do you use for speakers? I'm guessing that those could be improved upon greatly.
post #44 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

If I could replace my current system with one costing 10X as much at no charge to me (say by winning a sweepstakes), I am not sure that I would be very excited.

.................is a bunch of BS.

You said it. Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I have heard many, many extremely expensive systems.................

No, you haven't. Quit lying.
post #45 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

What do you use for speakers?

Gee, I don't know. What is it this week?
post #46 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Listening. Lots and lots of listening.


I don't want to be rude but you is the same person that could not hear that new CDs was dynamic compressed to h*ll.

I do agree that in most cases the difference is so small that many people will not hear it.
post #47 of 156
Obviously, the best sub-$3000 CD player is at the link, infra.



As far as technical specs, I highly doubt that any of today's best players are any better than an old Sony XA7ES or Meridian 508.24. And, of course, the sonic (as opposed to aesthetic, ergonomic, build quality, etc.) differences in digital sources are entirely illusory, except in the case of some extremely cheap stuff made to last 20 minutes and some extremely "high-end" stuff cooked up on someone's kitchen table.

But the better question is, why bother with a CD player at all? Simply stream your music (encoded in Apple Lossless) from your Mac, either directly or wirelessly via an AirPort Express. Then you'll never have to do that disk-changing thing, or worry about handling physical media except for the first time you import the disk to your hard drive.
post #48 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

I don't want to be rude but you is the same person that could not hear that new CDs was dynamic compressed to h*ll.

yeah, same guy
post #49 of 156
Quote:


But the better question is, why bother with a CD player at all? Simply stream your music (encoded in Apple Lossless) from your Mac, either directly or wirelessly via an AirPort Express. Then you'll never have to do that disk-changing thing, or worry about handling physical media except for the first time you import the disk to your hard drive.

I already do that with my CDR-HD1500, but no need for a computer, network connections,ripping software, and most importantly any product that starts with "i".
post #50 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

What do you use for speakers? I'm guessing that those could be improved upon greatly.

The fact that they cannot be improved on at all in any area other than deep bass is a big part of why I am disillusioned with the so-called "high end". (Especially since they were only $200.)
post #51 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

No, you haven't. Quit lying.

Given that you are so full of it that your eyeballs are floating, that comment is pretty funny coming from you.
Of course, you not only do not, but cannot know what I have heard.
post #52 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

The fact that they cannot be improved on at all in any area other than deep bass is a big part of why I am disillusioned with the so-called "high end". (Especially since they were only $200.)

You found speakers with controlled directivity through the midrange, flat power response, and sufficient cone area to avoid dynamic compression in the lower mids for only $200? Did you luck out and find a pair of Tannoy D700's or Gradient Revolutions at a thrift store or something?

If not, then you have significant room to improve you speakers. Most people haven't even heard a good speaker, because very few at any price are designed well.
post #53 of 156
This "discussion the benefits of CD players above and below $500.00" is specious and the ad hominem attacks are hilarious. This reminds me of
a Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama debate

PULLIAMM, maybe you should call Monoprice.com and see when they'll start selling stereo components to go with their lowest line of cables (no disrespect to Monoprice products, just a price comparison).
Let me share something with you that I finally learned, making such ridiculous blanket statements about anything makes others question your
motives and common sense. No disrespect meant but just a word to the wise
post #54 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

You found speakers with controlled directivity through the midrange, flat power response, and sufficient cone area to avoid dynamic compression in the lower mids for only $200? Did you luck out and find a pair of Tannoy D700's or Gradient Revolutions at a thrift store or something?

If not, then you have significant room to improve you speakers. Most people haven't even heard a good speaker, because very few at any price are designed well.

Technical specs are irrelevant. No doubt speakers that look better on paper are out there, but so what? The only thing that counts is how they sound to me. The speakers in question are Alesis Monitor Ones. B&W 800s (for example) have deeper bass, and that is all.
post #55 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by i30krab View Post

Let me share something with you that I finally learned, making such ridiculous blanket statements about anything makes others question your
motives and common sense. No disrespect meant but just a word to the wise

Are you operating under the impression that I actually give a damn about that?
post #56 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Are you operating under the impression that I actually give a damn about that?


I rest my case!
post #57 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Of course, you not only do not, but cannot know what I have heard.

Of course I can know. It can quite easily be deduced from the character of your posts.
post #58 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

The speakers in question are Alesis Monitor Ones.

OMG, are you serious? What happened to the CAs?

How many damn speakers are you going to buy, PULLIAMM? Every pair, you claim is the best. Then you buy another within weeks, sometimes days. I've had the exact same speakers through ~10 of your "best speaker ever" reiterations. Hmmmm......................

You truly are the sad laughing stock of these forums.
post #59 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

You truly are the sad laughing stock of these forums.

The only purpose that these forums is to kill time when I am bored at work. You surely never imagined that I (or anyone else) would seriously expect that there is actual, valuable knowledge to be gained here. Not when people like you are the source!
post #60 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

OMG, are you serious? What happened to the CAs?

I will break out the CAs whenever I am in the mood for jaw-dropping sound from truly tiny cabinets. The Alesis' sound almost identical, but with greater bass extension and no dynamic compression at all. The tradeoff is that they are much, much larger (and uglier!)
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