Zenith DTT901 - Page 49

The previous reply includes most of what I was going to say. What kind of antenna are you using right now? And do you live someplace where there's something (tall building, big trees) very close to you that might be making the signal harder to receive? That can be a factor, but don't know if it'd be enough to be completely 'no signal' as you currently have. If you do have that kind of issue, you probably will need a really good antenna. If it's not an antenna problem, then sounds like a defective unit (haven't heard of many, but it does happen). The Zenith definitely has a far better reputation than the Magnavox, though, so no need to fear you bought the wrong brand!

Best of luck & looking forward to hearing how it's going.

In cases like these, new Zenith owners should take advantage of the "manual tuning" item in the menus for its signal quality display. Yeah, you can just use the signal button, but whichever you use, it's handy to gauge how close you are or aren't to successful reception of a channel.

While many CECBs have one or more signal level indicators, on the Zenith, you can step through all RF channels - not just the ones in your channel list- to see what's coming in there.

If you are getting 0 signal on the RF channels that TVfool says should have the best signal for your location, then you may have a real problem with your antenna system, or converter. If you are getting some channel indication on at least one, then you can adjust the antenna, or take other steps to try to bring it up to watchable levels.

Remember that nearly all DTV is on UHF. Don't rely on rabbit ears for solid reception. You need a decent UHF antenna or combination UHF/VHF for DTV.

Let us know what you find out.

I just checked antennaweb.org (it's been many months since I last visited that website) and found the maps are still there.

Once one has provided an exact street address and clicked "street level map" that map will provide very helpful antenna aiming information with that street address at the center of the map.

Thanks for all the replies so far. The UHF tidbit is especially helpful, because I am using a standard VHF rabbit ears antenna that doesn't have the UHF connectors in use.

The mapping sites helped, too, except they told me what I didn't want to hear - it's likely I need a much stronger antenna than I'm using now. My hope was that the converter box would be a cheap and hassle-free way to improve reception on this TV.

So...do I get one of those UHF adapter things to see if that helps, or is that a waste of money seeing that I'm being told I likely need a better antenna anyway?

For us to answer that question, we would need to see your results from antennaweb or http://www.TVFool.com/

If you live near the cliffs or the Back Bay, your probably going to need an outside antenna.

Oh, sorry...I wasn't talking about the antenna aiming maps.

The street level maps on AntennaWeb.org are still helpful, especially if you have signals coming from different directions, though our OP here is probably aiming in the same general direction for the Mt. Wilson stations.

I meant actual signal level maps, like offered on TVFool.

Well, except that a converter box moves you no closer to the transmitter sites (Mt. Wilson, in your case). If you're near that store, you're 40 miles out, and that's a pretty good spot where outdoor antennas start becoming more practical...even if the digital signals are full-bore, post-transition strength.

The fuzzy picture of your analogs is actually still rather telling. Digital TV has no fuzzy, "can still watch it through snow" pictures. It's basically either crystal clear, or not receivable. You're finding out what millions of folks on the fringe of analog signals find out...the "digital cliff effect".

There's a very small window where digital signals will break up and try to resolve, but that's unwatchable.

Once you figure out your antenna situation, I'm guessing a decent antenna setup will bring you most of the locals with a dramatically better picture than the analogs (again, no "snow" in digital )

You don't happen to have a simple UHF loop to go along with those rabbit ears? It might be worth getting one just to see if it helps. You can get 'em for under $10 at most stores.

That won't be your final solution, as I said. At least one VHF station is moving to its old analog VHF channel in Los Angeles, which the loop won't be ideal for. You're 40 miles out, so I'm guessing you'll have reception trouble even with a UHF "indoor" antenna.

There may be solutions that don't involve mounting an antenna outside on the roof. Here's another thread that deals with antenna issues and DTV:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=381623

Good luck!

or to fine-tune your location, in case their system doesn't understand your city's house numbering and gives you data for a place at some remove from your true position.

One thing you can try that won't cost anything is to collapse the telescoping rods of the antenna all the way in. Also, spread them flat and set it in a window that faces the transmitters (ears broadside to the direction of the TV towers). Probably won't solve it entirely, but you may pull in one or more stations with some freeze up.

The mistake a lot of folks make is keeping their indoor antennas on the TV for convenience. With DTV, reception with indoor antennas can be highly sensitive to the location of the antenna. Only with experimentation can you find a "sweet spot" where the signals are good enough to decode . You may need a longer coax to put the antenna where it works best while keeping the TV where in a good location for viewing.

If you are handy at all, those YouTube homemade indoor 4-bay UHF antennas (a.k.a. coat hanger antennas) can work pretty well. They cost a few bucks and take about a half-hour to put together. They won't be enough in all cases, but they are miles better than rabbit ears or even a simple UHF loop. Worth a try. Mine do pretty well on one-edge, two-edge signals at 35-45 miles into my Zenith.

I grit my teeth every time I see a PSA say "if you use rabbit ears all you need is a converter box". Yeah, right, maybe for one viewer out of a hundred rabbit ears are all you need for OTA DTV - if that many.

1oel.com has the Insignia and Zenith in stock - at just $49.99 with free shipping - and they accept the coupons.

They are also offering open box Insignia boxes for free with the coupon.

Just to update, I bought a VHF-UHF Signal Combiner today and attached the UHF portion of the antenna to my Zenith converter box and still got no signal at all. AntennaWeb says I need a much stronger (medium directional) antenna, so I guess that's my only option now. Thanks again for all the replies and advice.

One more question, though: Is using a 300/75 ohm transformer to connect the antenna any less effective than the type of cable that screws into the "From Antenna" IN port on the back of the converter box? That's what I was using both yesterday and today.

I don't think I have the whole picture of your set up.

If you are asking if the screw on F-59 (usually just called "F" connector) is better than the push on style, the answer is maybe. If the push on connector - if you balun uses one - makes good electrical contact, than you probably wouldn't notice any difference.

Now, if you are using a considerable length of coaxial cable between antenna and receiver (converter box), you may lose a non-trivial amount of signal in the cable itself. Best to use high quality RG-6 cable for moderate indoor runs and larger cable, like RG-11 for long runs to tower mounted antennas.

It is also the case that the cables included with CECBs are often cheap, and some users report improvement by replacing them.

You should use a balun when transitioning from a length of twin lead (balanced feedline) to an unbalanced feed, like coaxial cable or the input jack on your Zenith.

DigiDummy,

Are you aware of the difference between real and virtual channel numbers for DTV signals? Most stations, especially pre-transition, are transmitting their digital signals on channels other than their traditional analog number. I.e., a local ch 7 may be on UHF ch 36 for DTV. Post transition, it may stay on 36, or switch back to VHF ch 7.

You probably know that, but it matters most when one is having difficulty catching channels during a channel scan. With the Zenith, if you know the real (RF) channel number of a station, you can go into the menus, select manual tune, and up arrow to the real channel number. In my example above, you would manually navigate to 36. You can step through each of the real channels for your local stations and check to see if any signal is indicated on the signal bar. If it is, go ahead and press the center button between the arrows to manually add it to your channel list, if you like.

With some models, like the Zenith and the Digital Stream, you can also just punch in the numbers for a local stations real digital channel number, and it will go to that channel directly. Then, pressing signal will show how much it is receiving.

If you do these things for your local stations and still see NO indication on the signal bar, you have work to do to bring those stations in to watchable levels. If, on the other hand, they already show, say 30% of maximum, you may make one or more "watchable" by relocating and reorienting your indoor antenna.

I can watch stations 45mi away with a homemade coat hanger antenna by putting the antenna in a window facing the transmitters and positioning it for strongest signal. But if I set the antenna up next to the TV, I get no stations.

I need about a 9 ft coaxial cable to locate it there and connect to my CECB next to the TV.

(Posted before I saw your latest reply.)

I think my set-up is pretty straightforward: Zenith converter box connected to the TV via the RCA cables it came with. Then my rabbit ears/UHF loop antenna was hooked up to the Zenith converter box, connected via a push-on signal combiner I got yesterday. Not using any considerable length between the antenna and the box...4-5 feet maybe? The cables off the antenna are those flat plastic type that seem to have two wires running down each side (twin-lead cable?) with the pronged ends that get screwed into the push-on signal combiner.

Does that help? Thanks again.

Yeah, that clears up my uncertainty. If you also have a female F to female F adapter and a length of coax with the screw on f connectors, try adding that between the converter and the antenna, then move the antenna to a window like I indicated before. See it the signal levels come up any as you move it.

In your case the following probably won't work, but what the heck...

If you have a 1 or 2 inch bare metal paper clip, unbend it into an "L" shape. Disconnect your antenna, and insert the short end of the "L" into the in from antenna jack, with the long end pointing up at the ceiling.

Then do an "EZ-add" scan (update scan) on your Zenith. Did it catch any channels?
If not, no big deal. If so, you receiving situation may not be so bad.

I live about 50 miles from my transmitters, and was able to get a good number of channels unamped and to only one TV. I then located my Radio Shack budget antenna to the attic, connected it to my two splitters, and found nothing. An amplifier fixed the problem for me. Maybe it will for you, too?

DigiDummy take a look at the following links:

EV's Best Rated Indoor Antenna Review

Official AVS Antenna Thread

OTA Digital FAQ's

Antennas, Rotors, & Pre-Amps/DA's

Tried this. The EZ Add didn't pick up anything, but then I also did the manual search, and I now see that some channels at least have some signal present. None of them exceed the red/"Bad" strength on the converter box, but at least I know the Antenna In thing works.

I think my next option would be to follow your lead and make a homemade antenna and using about 10 feet of cable to get it over in the windowsill in the room. I'm still fearful, however, because (A) the room is a little below street level, (B) the window faces a little hill (10 feet or so), and (C) at the top of that hill is the backside of a row of detached garages. There are also (D) lots of tall trees around, and the (E) window is facing almost the exact opposite direction of the transmitters some (F) 50 miles away in L.A.

Are A-F too many obstacles to overcome?

YES

You're better off putting up an exterior high-gain antenna.

You may have better luck receiving stations after June 12th.

BestBuy in Woodbridge VA. had quite a few of the Insignia boxes in stock sort of hidden away from the Apex model. Kmart in Dale City VA had 2 Zenith DTT901 models that I purchased tonight. Checked there several times before and they were always out of stock.

I've noticed the same thing here in Fort Lauderdale. Best Buy used to have mounds of Insignia CECB boxes and Apex CECB boxes. The Insignia boxes gradually disappeared while a fair number of Apex units remained. The Best Buy web site showed only one store in the area (out of perhaps 10 stores) with Insignia CECBs in stock. But recently I noticed they got more inventory.

Kmart is another story. For the past couple of months my local Kmart only carried Magnavox CECBs. Since the Kmart web site said Zenith CECBs were out of stock online I assumed they simply stopped carrying them. So I was surprised when I saw two Zenith boxes, one opened (!), at my local Kmart. Manufacture date of March 2009. Of course I bought the unopened unit.

I suggest for those wanting a Zenith/Insignia CECB they call their local Kmart. Zenith units are $10 less than Insignia units; I've never seen Best Buy have a sale on the Insignia (..unlike Apex).


_Lazza

k-mart in nyc (astor place) had around 8 zenith boxes manufactured Feb 2009.

i used PhillMan17's link and bought two Zenith boxes from 1oel.com

ANGUISH !

My DTT901 transformed my world by allowing me to easily pull in my favorite station, a PBS channel (KCET, channel 28 in Los Angeles), with stunning, crystal clarity. Moreover, it also gave me 28-2, 28-3, and 28-4. I was thrilled.

But recently, just a couple days past the 90-day labor warranty expiration date, the converter box turned itself off (displaying red light), and when I turned it back on, all four of the above PBS stations were gone. Can't get a signal for them, no matter how I adjust the antenna, and they no longer display in the box's memory. It's like they were never there. I still get all the other stations I had previously, including other PBS ones. I re-scanned, but the box simply won't pick up KCET's signals. I can manually add the channel, but it always says "No Signal."

Here's the scarey thing: I have another DTT901 on the other side of the same room and it picks up the KCET digital signals just fine.

Could I have somehow fried part of the other converter box? It's plugged into a surge protector. The converter box wasn't tuned to KCET when it turned itself off. Again, no channels besides the 4 KCET ones have been affected.

Anybody got any ideas on how I can get the missing channels back on my problem box? And how can I prevent this from happening to my good box that still gets all the channels?

Thanks for reading this.

If you swap the units and you still are missing the reception then I'd say something broke. But just because you can receive a station in one part of a room and not in another doesn't say much. You might be getting some sort of interference. Also it is not inconceivable that the station broadcasting the PBS station is doing something (eg, moved the antenna).

Personally I find it hard to believe that a tuner would fail by selectively not picking up a station. I would think if the tuner breaks it would break completely.


_Lazza

This is the first step, swap the units.

Tuners can fail in a progressive manner, by frequency. The virtual channel numbers are meaningless to verify this, however. You need to look at the actual RF broadcast channel. You can easily lose the highest or lowest frequency when a tuner starts to fail. You can also lose whole bands of channels. (2-6, 7-13, 14+) but that's more common on cable than digital broadcast, which are mostly 14 and up.

Reception problems can be frequency dependent also, with the higher ones being harder to pick up than lower ones. (again by RF frequency, not virtual numbers)

I received my Zenith boxes from 1oel.com
Both have a manufacturing date of June 2008.

Was hoping to receive a more recent manufactured box (kmart's were February 2009).

received my Zenith boxes from 1oel.com
Both have a manufacturing date of June 2008


Ouch!... Almost a year old already...

EDIT: While your box is almost a year old already- I'd prefer it over a box built right PRIOR to the original Digital transition cut-off date of Feb 17-2009... the reason being boxes built right around that time were bound to be built in a "hurry" to get them shipped out to cover those last-minute shoppers... (The surge).

For those in the market- Your local K-Mart is "the" place to purchase.... instead of online as:

1: You can check the date before purchase....

2: Can do "No-Hassle" returns on defective units *... OR "swaps" for another model without a hassle...


I just returned a Zenith DTT901 for a DTVPal Plus at K-Mart a week or so ago...
(Zenith is nice- but the DTVPal series units have a much higher WAF (Wife Approval Factor) due to the DTVPal units GUIDE.)



.

Lessblue my neighbor has a June 98 DTT901 and it will pick up a station better than the DTT901's I have made in Feb. and March 2009. My neighbors June 08 box has nicer looking solder joints than the newer boxes I have looked at. I would guess that each box could behave a little differently with all the variables involved in manufacturing. Another guess is that LG has more than one plant making these boxes because some boxes smell different like a different kind of solder flux was used?

I was hoping Zenith would come out with an updated box with an updated tuner and do away with the tuning coils in the tin can.

A basic question first: did you ever disable the 4-hour automatic shut off in your Zeniths?

By NTIA rule, eligible converter boxes must have that feature available and turned on by default. See your options menu.

This question doesn't address your loss of that station, but may relate to why it shut down on its own.