Zenith DTT901 - Page 68

If you're considering any of those old, early-2000, third-party ones (such as Sony, LG, etc., that worked with Direct), and not the more recent Direct or Dish models, their reception chips are of very early generations.

Thanks! Man you're always a model ahead of me though!

I didn't know we could split s-video. I suspect the DVDR won't let you pass the s-video thru when not recording.

Yeah I saw that but you just made it easier for me to get back there when I get around to updating the firmware, thanks! Looks like it also updates the audio and maybe makes the pic better on certain disk (or at least run less glitchy).

Glad you like to tinker too although it can be time consuming. I don't mind spending a few bucks either having gotten these free or cheap upgrade TVs. I look forward to seeing HD on this Panny via the Blu-ray but need some component cables first; I think the s-video I have now gives me early era HD (480p), a DVD looked pretty good. Pretty much depleted my cable stock having moved my old living room setup into my bedroom in place of the old coax-only TV. Audio cables are at a premium, so much for that high-end JVC cassette recorder I rarely use any more. Plenty of coaxes though from all these converter boxes.

Thanks and likewise on the HD tuner boxes.

BTW I started a Panny TV thread over yonder CRT land:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1387613

It may have been mentioned, but now and then the RCA ATSC 11 or ATSC 21 Digital tuners can stil be found on places like Ebay. They are quite nice boxes and have component, RGB/DVI, 4 switchable output resolutions, as well as standard simple yellow/red/white RCA composite video and S-video outputs. Oh, plus they have an optical output for sound.

This makes for a great unit to record to a standard or S-VHS VCR.

Any suggestions for what models you would look for? (or maybe just some categories and year ranges).
Something with an HD tuner for a non-ATSC widescreen HD CRT. Used markets/inexpensive. Doesn't have to be satellite, I just threw that out there as I figured the most commonly available. And at least for me a recorder type may be worth a few bucks more.

Thanks!

Good to know, thanks! After a quick search it 'appears' the only difference is the 21 also has an NTSC tuner.

Ah if only my friend would surrender me one of his two Toshiba S-VHS VCRs sitting in storage (he still thinks they're quite valuable...).

I probably wouldn't even bother with anything from pre-2005 myself. That's about the time the 4th generation was in vogue. 4th is more borderline, but still pretty good (especially in the LG's, which were exceptional back then). But before that, you can get much spottier results (they're up to at least the 6th now).

But then, I'm a little over 40 miles out from my main market, and have some trees to deal with.

If you have a totally clear shot, with no potential multipath issues, and are within maybe 30 miles from the towers, something like those early RCA's, or the Panasonics from back then, might be alright (but those are like, 1st and 2nd generation - basically the first consumer models ever sold. They've come a long way since then).

There have been so many that I wouldn't even know where to start when recommending them, outside of what I said above. The best thing to do would be to check out the main, "HDTV Technical" forum here. There's a "sticky" thread there ("HDTV STB Synopsis") which lists all (or at least most) of the HD ATSC tuners ever made (even in the DVR's), in the very first post. You can also get info on the tuners individually in that forum, if you either search or ask (they don't have the years or the chips in the listing. Also, there is a cutoff point, which they don't say, either, when the satellite companies' tuners with ATSC built-in stopped being made to be usable without a service subscription. You'd have to ask there, too).

A model ahead yes but hey I had to pay for mine! Great to get that one for free.

For sure you are right the DVD recorder won't pass-thru the S-video like it will the composite, sure wish that it did then I would not need the splitter.

I surprised myself by running out of cables. I finally experimented myself into a deficit, LOL.

You just added fuel to my newly formed theory of Toshiba Owner Delusion Syndrome, or TODS. I don't really know the cause, which is truly mysterious to me, but I have noticed over the past months that ALL sellers of old Toshiba televisions and other Toshiba equipment have their stuff remarkably higher priced than comparable units made by other manufacturers. Also, I have NEVER seen a Toshiba TV in the free section of craigslist, while Sony, RCA, Zenith, and to a lesser extent Samsung and Panasonic sets are ubiquitous. The typical asking price for a decade-old 32" 4:3 SD Toshiba TV is $100 - $125 and often presented as a "great deal". Not so much, when with a little diligence I can pick-up a nice Sony 27" set for free. Any ideas?

I am amazed at the prices people are asking for these...even the old ones ...and they are selling on Ebay for high prices. Mainly because they are not being made any more and there is still demand!

Thanks for all the info. Meanwhile I am waiting for my distribution amp which I hope will help me. A lot cheaper that $150 for a tuner.

Great info to start with>outline, thanks!

Yeah I've glanced over yonder thread, scary the number of pages of some of these things. I'll just have to bite the bullet.

But then there was your Panny TV which I think you got for free; a 54 vs my 50. Still working on the Sony TV though, a 34" 960N would be sweet even if a small amount of money has to exchange hands.

Well in my friend's case it's because the VCR is 'S' VHS which were pretty pricey at the time; it's the same psychological thing as some of these CRTs folks paid 5 grand for. The Toshiba thing could be because there's not as many for sale so when these folks look to see what they're 'priced' at to set their price there's not much data (and with not much data they also revert to the psycho thing). I keyword search for Sony, Toshiba, and more recently Panasonic and the Toshiba list is rather small (both Toshiba and Panny are almost non-existent on the widescreen HD CRTs). I did recently see similar year model Toshiba and Panny 34"ers both for $75 each, I think the Panny was like yours (both HDMI but no HD tuner). I would think Sony made the best sets; still seems that way based on new model pricing.

More tinkering: Acquired a Dell Trinitron P1110 21" workstation monitor for free but it has a 'too bright' problem. I might have been tricked, seemed like a nice guy but when I showed up he said it just started doing that when he cleaned the front and hit some buttons. OK though because he threw in a nice Dell 19" monitor that looked great. Nice of him to have them hooked up and cleaned up for a CL freebie though.
Anyhow I couldn't get the P1110 to snap out of it and after doing some 'net searching they have a common brightness problem with age. I performed a simple resistor mod and so far so good, still need to do some refocusing and such. There are other solutions as the thread started in 2003 but I don't have time to read all 49 pages . I went with the mod I saw at the beginning and some were still doing recently. There was a software mod but it required buying parts to build an RS232 interface board,, buying special cables, going through pages of scripting stuff, and warnings of corrupting memory tables; I suspect they were paranoid to change a resistor that directly feeds to the CRT gun/HV. (I'm obviously a HW guy).

Yeah I saw that too. Looked at Amazon and there were even crazier prices. Most of them are unrealistic and they'll never get it. And some crazy shipping prices too.

ebay used to have a way to see what similar items actually sold for but the page changed since then and I don't see a way to access the archive. That sure was useful. I wonder if they eliminated it in favor of sellers?

Floydage, it seems the 'search recent sales' or similar comes and goes on the ebay pages I get when poking around there. May have to search for something, find it, and then look in the left column for 'additional' restrictions or search params.
tom

Got it, thanks! "Completed Listings."

You are way beyond me, sir. I am a tinkerer but just an uneducated self-taught one: the first thing I did with my first radio when I was a little kid was to take it apart to see what was inside and how it worked. I have fixed many electronic devices and even soldered a few things but if the problem is not obvious and visible with the naked eye then I am done.

So I pulled the trigger on a rare opportunity and as usual I am smiling like the Cheshire cat. On craigslist I found a used Zenith HDV420 HDTV tuner for $75. Now I am a cheap-ass and I did pause but finally caved and made the buy. I am so glad I did! Hooked to my free Sony KV-30HS420 via component inputs the PQ is stunning. I have it set to 1080i output. The tuner sensitivity seems comparable to my CM-7000 and DTT-901. The only con is that changing channels takes about a second longer than with the CECB units. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

So it is possible to score these units but man I had to look long and hard to finally find one available for a price that wouldn't require a second mortgage. The sad thing is that I am willing to bet that a fair percentage of them ended up in America's landfills. Oh, one thing that surprised me is the size of the HDV420 - it is huge! It looks like an old school audio component. Big and metal with lots of ventilation, so hopefully has a lot more life left in it.

Now my converter box shortage is resolved - I will connect the CM-7000 to my free Sony KV-27FS120 via S-video with an S-video split to my DVD recorder, leave one DTT-901 connected to my free Panasonic Tau CT-34WX54 (which as bragged about ad-nauseum by me provides the best composite PQ I have ever seen), and take my remaining DTT-901 back to my office so I can watch the morning news on an old Sony KV-27V10 that was handed down to me years ago and served as our main TV for nearly a decade.

Oh yes, the divine hand of contrariness slapped me up side the head right after I posted about never seeing a Toshiba TV in the free section of craigslist. A few hours later, and there it was! In my defense I must say it was an ancient 19" from the nineties, but nonetheless, I stand corrected.

The beauty of OTA HDTV on good old CRT technology makes me even more glad that I made the effort to acquire these sets and get them running in all their glory.

Deja vu I got in trouble for taking apart a clock; younger than that for taking faceplates off of electrical outlets of an empty house with my brand new Handy Tool Kit (lucky I didn't get eletrocuted). Pop was an avionics tech so hence my influence. Anyhow the computer monitor was no biggie, I saw someone posting of how they found a site to teach them to solder so they could do the mod.


Sweet! Now you got me even hungrier for one.


I wish CL had a better search engine like ebay but that's probably why it's a free site - simplicity. I have to be very generic in my searches or the goodies won't show up but that means more time scanning ads. Then there's the issue with folks mispelling stuff; I heard about that, if you use common mispellings in ebay then you can get a great deal by being the only bidder since no one else sees the ad.
I'm curious to see what my city's e-recycle place has lying around and if anyone can grab stuff (they say that's the case at the paint/pesticide/chemical drop-off place). I doubt that would work at Best Buy.
That Sony Blu-ray player is huge too. Yet when I opened it up to vacuum it out there was plenty of space inside so I suspect it was a marketing thing (bigger is better). Neighbor's new player is much smaller. I bet that HDV420 is built like a brick $&*^house though.


Naw, that's kinda ancient, your head should be OK for now.

Glad you got your setups all setup to your liking.

Yeah, everything will be fine for awhile until I dream up another modification, reconfiguration, or improvement. Won't take long - never does.

that it's too far away:

"On the curb - 27" TV, Digital Converter, DVD Player, Bunny Ears

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Date: 2012-01-28, 9:35AM CST
Reply to: sale-yv7d7-2822391146@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Free 27" Panasonic TV with Insignia digital converter box, Magnavox DVD player, and picture frame bunny ears. All remotes included. Everything works.

On the curb. Please take all or none. Will remove post when gone.

5121 Blackelm Drive
McKinney, TX 75071"

Area sounds like McMansion estates. Hope someone doesn't just nab the small items. A neighbor of mine put out a working TV and he caught someone getting ready to cut the cord off.

Wow, that's a great one! Yeah too bad it is far away. Plus I am always hesitant to try for the curb items on the assumption I will waste time and miss out.

That's the first time I've seen a DTT-901 (albeit the Insignia clone) offered for free. The cheapest one I've seen around here was going for $20.

That was a shocker. I hate those 'on the curb' ads, I won't bite unless within a mile or two and I the ad is real fresh (many folks are lazy about pulling old ads).

Speaking of composite inputs, don't forget to turn on your 3D Y/C filter when using that source. May be useful up to and including s-video as well (my Panny manual says not available for composite inputs).

A guy nearby has a DirecTV H20 HD receiver for $25. Now I need to figure out if it'll due OTA without activation to decide whether to buy it or not.

Great deal and both Solid Signal and CNET show it has OTA ATSC capability. Now the question is whether a DirecTV card is required, and if so whether it must be an active subscription. Hopefully not.

Uh-oh, further research shows several responses indicating that the H20 cannot be used as a standalone HD OTA receiver without a DirecTV subscription. Some people are saying that if there is an active card in the unit that a subscription is not required, but that seems like an oxymoron to me. Maybe you can get the seller to test it out before plunking down the cash?

Thanks for checking! I couldn't find anything definitive but mostly the same result although I didn't know about the active card part. Yeah this guy replied he didn't have a clue. Now intuition tells me those sat companies wouldn't let it work for free since the boxes are sometimes sold new cheap akin to the subsidies cellphone companies throw out to sign up new subscribers.

Wish I could find something good on the HD OTA potential on various boxes, very time consuming research on every candidate I come across. Some time ago I stumbled across a table in AVS that summed several of them up but after more than an hour the other day I couldn't find it again. I would think there was a distinct/sticky thread on the subject. Seemed the table was at the start of a thread but...

Ah I was mistaken, I just found the table again but it was for HD DVRs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1204433

Still useful in that respect.

Setting the Option - Audio:

This has probably been answered in the 86 pages though I could not find it, the manual says if using the RF Output to set to Mono, if using the RCA Outs use Stereo. I'm taking there is no stereo transmission through the RF, though toggling to Stereo I note no diifference.

On both of my setups I use the RF out to feed the TV, but also use the RCA outs to feed a companion VCR input for recording. Yeah I can't watch another channel, but can set while i'm away to record. On one set I actually use the RF Channel 4 out to watch the VCR also, this has no ill effect the VCR superceeds the box. (I'm wondering if would be better to switch either of these devices to RF 3) (??).

I'm assuming I'm not getting stereo via the RF out while watching TV but my VCR recording is picked up in stereo.. but I'm getting stereo if I watch the DTT901 via my VCR on the one that I'm using the aux VCR input on the TV... correct?

Yes, stereo in the composite inputs of the VCR will give you stereo out the composite outputs of the VCR. BUT check your VCR menu to make sure it's set to stereo as some VCRs have a stereo/mono setting. I had to set up my bedroom setup in a similar fashion to use my VCR as an audio switch since my old GE TV only has one set of composite inputs (Zinwell>Line 1 for recording and ChannelMaster>Line 2 for audio/switch; Zinwell&VCR-out on composite video with CM on s-video). Watch for lip sync delays though if the audio and video are taking different paths.

[What I always wonder on those scenarios is if Dolby Digital is input will Dolby Digital be output? recording and non-recording scenarios? Anyone out there know?]

I've always used RF 3 over RF 4 because 1) I felt it was more optimally designed for that (NTSC CH 4 days), and 2) RF 3 is further away in frequency from the tuning band than RF 4. Probably a bunch of nonsense on my part though as I tend to overthink things . At least you've got both so that if you see any interference you can set one to 3 and the other to 4.

Now I can't help you with the Zenith points but I think that's generally right about mono on RF and stereo on composite, at least it seems for most boxes (the manuals are clear as mud on the subject). The Zinwells have a menu setting for RF Mode vs Line Mode, the volume gets much louder with the RF setting but audio comes out all ports regardless of setting.

If I recall correctly, there is no stereo on the RF output because the cost to license the MTS decoder circuitry was prohibitive, perhaps even more expensive than the box itself.

EDIT: I found the message I was referring to: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14236308

Cool, I see from page 14


On my one VCR (JVC) the internal analog tuner was hit by lightning, so I am strictly using it on channel F1 (Aux In) instead of channel 4, the RF output may work but I'm not using it, on the Sylvania VCR I still record & watch via Channel 4 due to lack of TV inputs.

I use 4 here as a habit, I always had an RF 3 here (WKYC) though they are on RF 17 now... I thought I had a few devices or games that used RF 2 also.
Don't notice any difference between 4 & 3 with both dark, we have an RF 7, 8, & 10 in the area still now (& a 6 'Franken FM' due to sign on in analog at any time, weather that actually will happen is questionable)

So, In a nutshell, I'm getting via the composite AV outputs off the Zenith, stereo, but not MTS stereo? & if I set up this way then set the 901 to stereo I'm thinking.

I suspect you meant encoder as the box would be encoding the signal for output which then gets decoded by the TV, VCR, etc. (which have MTS decoders). The audio comes into the box Dolby Digital via ATSC/digital (i.e. not NTSC>MTS). Yeah there could be a licensing and/or extra hardware cost issue with encoding it (although in this day and age I would think hardware was easily integrated into one of the chips).

I wonder if the Zinwell has it, hence the change in volume I observe? Plus the manual lists the RF as NTSC. I noticed the ChannelMaster actually lists it as mono.

Ironically I sort of have to do the same with my GE TV as the RF tuner is flaky (noisy pic), I think the coax got yanked once. Converter boxes on composite saved the day, would have went that way for better PQ anyway. Used to have to rely on the VCR tuner unless recording.

Ah a CH 3, never seen that in these parts.

See my previous post on the MTS stereo. You may or may not be getting Dolby Digital stereo depending on what Zenith boxes put out (and what VCRs do to it), should be stereo nonetheless.

I remember that the DTT-901 manual specifies mono for the RF and stereo for the RCA output. If you have an extra powered "computer" speaker system you could split the RCA output from the DTT-901, turn off the TV audio, and listen to stereo sound through the powered speakers while watching TV via RF.

Then again, I am a little nuts on these types of "improvements".

Yep, I meant to say encoder, not decoder.