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Can any center be used as an MTM/LCR?

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
I have been shopping for new speakers and probably will for the next few months to go with my new onkyo 805.

I have five identical bookshelves. I dont like the speakers themselves but love the imaging. No way would I go with a horizontal center again!

I'm trying to get the front 3 speakers the same across the front. But not all comapnies seperate the bookshelves from the pair. Axiom and Aperion are a couple that come to mind that do sell as each.

I see alot of companies sell MTM LCRs. Using what looks like a normal center setup...two woofers..tweeter in the middle.

My question is..would ANY well designed center work on it's side, with 3 of them identical acroos the front?

I would hate to buy 2 pair of bookshelves and have one speaker just sit around.
post #2 of 32
I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find some center's that can be turned on their end although probably 90%+ wouldn't advise it.

Here's one company that boasts 3 identical speakers just like you described, although this is really in the "value" market and I have no idea what price range you are looking.

Why not go 3 bookshelfs across the front from one of the companies you mentioned that will sell them individually?

http://www.thespeakercompany.com/DRH...uctID=94860000

Monitor Audio says their center can be used horizontally or vertically:
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/produ...ge=2&product=6
edit: this ^ was just a random review stating it works fine horizontally or vertically so take it FWIW.
post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
Ideally, budget would be $1000-$1500 for 7 speakers but ,I'm trying to use the same line of speakers for the rears and I want two pairs of bipole/dipoles for 7.1 mounted on the wall. Problem is I seem to blow $1000 or more on my budget on the surrounds. So that pushes the budget more to like $2000. Oh well.

One thing I will be auditioning is Klipsch or Acoustech.. I realize that Klipsch is better and the Acoustech is similar.And that the design isnt everyone's thing. But since it is going to be dedicated to HT...the bright "in your face" sound might just be the ticket. But neither company breaks up a pair. I'd want 3 of the 6.5 inch two way bookshelves. Those are some I definitely would not flip the center because of the dispersion of the horns.

If I decide I'm not into the horns...I'm not sure why a conventional dome center would not work vertical...unless there was some sort of boundary compensation taken into account with the crossover design and it doesnt have anything near flat response on its side.

The Aperions look nice and they seem like they might suit my sonic tastes from what I've heard , but the surrounds are expensive.

One option is to pick my front 3 2 way speakers and then go with a different company for the surrounds. I want a matched system,but something tells me once I put a bipole mounted high on a wall, it will sound radically different from my fronts anyway.

Decisions.
post #4 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

My question is..would ANY well designed center work on it's side, with 3 of them identical acroos the front?

Nope. Many will but not all.
post #5 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope. Many will but not all.

Wow Kal!
Your latest "in the round" was very educational!

Wish I could afford those Cantons...he he

I did notice that when I did the pink noise test my five identical speakers did in fact not sound identical. But when listening with actual program, I found the sound was more consistent as things panned around. My new Onkyo arriving tomorrow has audassey. I'll have to try that.

Nice to know I'm not crazy and that someone who can listen to $4000 speakers and reviews for a living also beleives that identical speakers are ideal. I've never like the sound of centers and I've alwyas been able to grab one of the fronts and hook up the wire running to the center channel and instantly get a more natural sound with that test.

But going to 7.1 it becomes less practical to use all bookshleves on stands.
And I've been less into multichannel music lately and more jealous of the surround imaging I get in our local theater.

But as far as the front 3 speakers...I think having those matched will still make me happy. i dont have space constraints there.
post #6 of 32
Why don't you just buy 7 of the Axiom M3's? Or Ascend CBM-170's? The Ascends are on sale until 5/31 and I'm sure they will accommodate splitting a pair if you phone them up.

I've never heard the Ascends, but loads of people swear by them for the money. I have a pair of the M3's in a bedroom system. They are very good speakers. I believe seven of the same bookshelf speakers would be an awesome imaging HT.

Jim
post #7 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63 View Post

Why don't you just buy 7 of the Axiom M3's? Or Ascend CBM-170's? The Ascends are on sale until 5/31 and I'm sure they will accommodate splitting a pair if you phone them up.

I've never heard the Ascends, but loads of people swear by them for the money. I have a pair of the M3's in a bedroom system. They are very good speakers. I believe seven of the same bookshelf speakers would be an awesome imaging HT.

Jim

That is definitely a scenario I have considered...which brings me to another startling discovery:

Most good bookshelves are rear ported!

So mounting one right on a wall is a bad idea!
So that brings me to 3 M3s and 4 qs8s and even with the B stock...that drives the price up a little higher.

But that's one setup I am considering.

Another one is this one:
http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=26

But there just arent enough feedback on them yet for me to take a chance on them. I'm also guessing they maybe pretty inefficient up front too.
post #8 of 32
contrary to the OP not most of the "good" bookshelf speakers are rear ported.
post #9 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

contrary to the OP not most of the "good" bookshelf speakers are rear ported.

What are some in my price range (under $400 a pair) that aren't.

How is the efficiency(acoustic suspension?) on the one's you have in mind?

I believe the budget SVS bookshelf is acoustic suspension...haven't run across much else that is very practical to wall mount.

I have also been looking at the ED's which I believe are front ported?
post #10 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

Th
Most good bookshelves are rear ported!

They are?
post #11 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lwien View Post

They are?

In my price range...it certainly seems most of them are.

How about some suggestions if I am so wrong?

What I have now are ported speakers and I definitely don't want to go backwards with efficiency. Like to stay above or around 88db.
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

My question is..would ANY well designed center work on it's side, with 3 of them identical acroos the front?

Whether it will work well vertically depends upon whether it has any specific design features that facilitate and/or enhance its use as a horizontal center speaker, such as a directional tweeter baffle or waveguide. If it does, these features, when rotated 90° will actually diminish its capability when used vertically. If there are no such accommodations, it should work fine when rotated 90° and will very most likely work much better vertically than it will horizontally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

How about some suggestions if I am so wrong?

There are several sealed or front-ported bookshelf designs available. KEF, for example.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ails/542300596
post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
Siva, nothing I've considered has a waveguide or anything like that.
That's great info!

The Kef's are pretty! Maybe big to wall mount. I also considered getting 3 of their bookshelfs and 4 of their surrounds. Sold in pairs as well. I may have to come to grips with buying two pairs of something to get the front 3 I want.
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

One thing I will be auditioning is Klipsch or Acoustech.. I realize that Klipsch is better and the Acoustech is similar.And that the design isnt everyone's thing. But since it is going to be dedicated to HT...the bright "in your face" sound might just be the ticket.

I would say that the Klipsch is better than the acoustech is highly inaccurate... unless you are going with high end klipsch. And you would probably be surprised how well the horns deliver on the acoustech... they are not so 'tinny' or 'in your face' like the klipsch. They are a bit more subtle, although they are still bright. Just something to consider.

Also, you mention mounting to the wall several times. Have you considered In-wall? Such as these:

http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=9&spkrID=27

They can be had for about half the price on bic's website but i've read a couple of reviews for them and people seem to be very pleased with them. BTW, they look like 2-ways but they are really 3-ways.
post #15 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

That is definitely a scenario I have considered...which brings me to another startling discovery: Most good bookshelves are rear ported! So mounting one right on a wall is a bad idea!

You could also look at the Ascend HTM-200SEs which are a sealed design...backed with a good subwoofer, they should work very well, esp. for HT...excellent detail!
post #16 of 32
It appears the eD A6-6T6 MTM and A6-5T5 MTM are identical speakers as front pairs or a single center. Since you can buy them as a single or a pair you should have no problem getting 7 of the same speakers.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_42
post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

The Kef's are pretty! Maybe big to wall mount. I also considered getting 3 of their bookshelfs and 4 of their surrounds. Sold in pairs as well. I may have to come to grips with buying two pairs of something to get the front 3 I want.

Well, if you are considering KEFs, you should know that the matching center speaker for the speakers I linked you to has the EXACT same coincidental array driver as those speakers. This coincidental array design does not suffer from the same issues that many horizontal center channel speakers suffer from. So, you could get the matching center channel speaker and still have 3 almost identical speakers across the front. Just food for thought. I think that the iQ2c is rear-ported though.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ures/542250306



BTW, why are you now considering surround-specific speakers? I thought you liked having all identical speakers in your current setup.
post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post

What are some in my price range (under $400 a pair) that aren't.

How is the efficiency(acoustic suspension?) on the one's you have in mind?

I believe the budget SVS bookshelf is acoustic suspension...haven't run across much else that is very practical to wall mount.

I have also been looking at the ED's which I believe are front ported?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B1000-...2095897&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-2-Way...096135&sr=8-18

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Boo...2096183&sr=1-8

Are you an audiophile? Because these may or may not appeal to you.
they are all front ported.
post #19 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

[some links]

Amazon links don't work, Raymond.
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Amazon links don't work, Raymond.

Sorry, For some reason the computer is shortening the links I copied and pasted.
post #21 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

I still have a few months to decide. Unfortuantely I cant do in walls.
But the Kefs ,Klipsch and hopefully Acoustech's I'll get to audition. After that, maybe a few IDs.

Thanks for the suggestions Raymond, but my friend has all polks and I favor the speakers I have now ten times more than his system. Not a fan of Infinity either but I will audition some too.

Although I'm looking at cheap speakers for my HT. I actually have spent hours in front of Westlake,Tannoy,UREI, Genelec, Yamaha, Event ,EV and even ancient Altec Lansing Voice of the Theaters and many more. But those of course were someone else's studio monitors!

So I know what good speakers sound like, and I know the eq spectrum and a parametric eq like the back of my hand. But trying to put a nice home theater together on a tight budget, is a whole different animal. So I have some auditioning to do. I havent went speaker shopping in some years.

Tonight is the first night I spent with my Onkyo 805 and my old 5.1 speakers. Its going to be tough to scrap them and get a whole new 7.1 system because it was sounding good tonight!
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

Sorry, For some reason the computer is shortening the links I copied and pasted.

No, I think amazon does something to prevent linking.
post #23 of 32
These are front ported at $400/retail/pair
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/produ...e=8&product=56
I think they deserve more attention personally.
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

I think they deserve more attention personally.

Like, they need a bath? Or should brush their teeth? Comb their hair? Tuck their shirt in?

j/k
post #25 of 32
Raymond was probably linking Infinity Primus for one of them. They are front ported. They also sound very nice despite the low cost.
post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63 View Post

Why don't you just buy 7 of the Axiom M3's? Or Ascend CBM-170's? The Ascends are on sale until 5/31 and I'm sure they will accommodate splitting a pair if you phone them up.

I've never heard the Ascends, but loads of people swear by them for the money. I have a pair of the M3's in a bedroom system. They are very good speakers. I believe seven of the same bookshelf speakers would be an awesome imaging HT.

Jim

Ascend does actually offer the CBM-170 center if you use their Advisor page to submit order.
post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImagePree View Post

Ascend does actually offer the CBM-170 center if you use their Advisor page to submit order.

I do not think that the "center" version differs from the regular version except maybe in the placement of the badge on the grille. If, however, it is somehow different, and specifically designed to be used on its side, you would want to consider whether you may want to use a standard one vertically instead of the center-specific version on its side.

But, again, I do not think there is a difference in the speakers.
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

I do not think that the "center" version differs from the regular version except maybe in the placement of the badge on the grille. If, however, it is somehow different, and specifically designed to be used on its side, you would want to consider whether you may want to use a standard one vertically instead of the center-specific version on its side.

But, again, I do not think there is a difference in the speakers.

I think they simply turn the tweeter for placement on its side, ditto with all their other center versions.
post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dietz View Post

I think they simply turn the tweeter for placement on its side, ditto with all their other center versions.

I don't think they do, do they?

The Sierra has a directional tweeter baffle so it IS rotated 90° on the center version. This is easily accomplished as the baffle unit is round.

The 340's tweeter is radially symmetric with no directional baffle so I'm sure nothing needs to be rotated, there. But I think that there ARE crossover differences between the vertical and center versions.

Although it appears to be, at least cosmetically, non-radially symmetric, I do not think that the 170s tweeter baffle affects its dispersion characteristics as it is flush with the speakers front baffle. It is simply not perfectly round on the outer edges. I am almost certain this is not rotated on the "center" version as this would require a different cabinet. I could be wrong, though.
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

No, I think amazon does something to prevent linking.

Chris' educational tip for the day.

As a former lead/temp supe at Amazon.com I learned many magical tricks.

One of which is that you need NOTHING past the ASIN or Amazon.com Standard Identification Number in a link.

Basically where the link is throwing up the ****'s is the point where you are trying to insert session specific info.

For instance, this link:

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Boo...2096183&sr=1-8

Should actually be condensed to:

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-Boo.../dp/B000V2N310

Or even:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V2N310

http://www.amazon.com is...well..obviously the web site.

/dp would be whatever directory heading they're using now. It was previously obidos followed by garupa, I'm not really sure how many revisions to their page serving directories there have been since I left.

/B000V2N310 is the ASIN/product # in their system. For books it'll usually be the umm....ISBN.

Now everyone should be able to use Amazon.com links as long as they read this post I guess.
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