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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 370

post #11071 of 14945
dkwong: I think the VGA connection only supports up to 1280x720p. If you want to go 1080p from the xbox360 you should use HDMI.

dogmatix: I also got my 5020 from BB (great price btw) and havent noticed any of what you are saying but perhaps I'm not as critical.
post #11072 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fant View Post

dkwong: I think the VGA connection only supports up to 1280x720p. If you want to go 1080p from the xbox360 you should use HDMI.

Yeah, I know that, but I have one of the older 360's without HDMI. And since almost all 360 games are rendered internally at 720p anyway, it doesn't really make a huge difference. You can actually use 1366x768 with the Kuro, BTW.

FWIW, I tested the three different reference levels and find that I like Extended mode best. The black level on the Standard mode is way too high.
post #11073 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkwong View Post

Yeah, I know that, but I have one of the older 360's without HDMI. And since almost all 360 games are rendered internally at 720p anyway, it doesn't really make a huge difference. You can actually use 1366x768 with the Kuro, BTW.

FWIW, I tested the three different reference levels and find that I like Extended mode best. The black level on the Standard mode is way too high.

If 360 Standard Mode color looks off its likely because your signal type and/or colorspace settings on the Kuro do not match what you have the Console set to send. See my reference post PS3 and 360 Settings for Kuro
post #11074 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmatix View Post

I got mine yesterday from BB ... noticed DSE during break-in with static images ... especially visible with green channel and derived colors including whites ... also noticed blotching during the night in dark room between image switching ...

Should I swap the unit or wait for break-in to complete? I would hate to settle for a panny or samsung ...

Anyone? D-nice?

Mine went away. I only speak for experience. But if you feel like for some reason that yours won't or you're unsure. Take it back.
post #11075 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakinsdad View Post

Mine went away. I only speak for experience. But if you feel like for some reason that yours won't or you're unsure. Take it back.

I did ... well kind of ... I went to local BB and asked the sales guys to let me run the break-in images on the thumbdrive on a pdp-6020fd and a pro-111fd. The pdp-6020 was pretty much DSE free ... pro-111fd was really bad ... a lot of DSE ... the sales guy could not believe what he saw ...

According to the sales guy, both units were on display for about a year now ...

The key take-away for me was that DSE-free is not a myth ...

I had my pdp-5020fd delivered by BB ... so, I just bought a new Elite pro-111fd which is going to delivered mid-May (the unit is going to be in store but they do not have any early delivery slots open). And when they deliver the pro, they will gladly take back the pdp and issue a refund ...
post #11076 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fant View Post

dkwong: I think the VGA connection only supports up to 1280x720p. If you want to go 1080p from the xbox360 you should use HDMI.

dogmatix: I also got my 5020 from BB (great price btw) and havent noticed any of what you are saying but perhaps I'm not as critical.

Well, I was not really looking for DSE ... I had the break-in images on the thumbdrive and I was standing really close to the plasma to see if I can find any dead-pixels (or stuck sub-pixel). The DSE kind of become apparent ... it looked as if the screen was painted with water color ... the color was the same ... but you could see the intensity difference. Kinda like painter's brush ...

I am a kind of stickler (professional requirement - electrical engineer) ... so, I asked the wife to have a look ... did not tell her what she was looking for ... just told her to see if she can see anything wrong with the tv ... the water color description is hers.
post #11077 of 14945
I was just wondering if there is any optimal setting for standard definition? Even the menu for the HD PVR cable box is kind of blurry/distorted.

HDMI looks fantastic, but since most channels are SD I thought i'd ask.

I have the pdp-5020fd. Thanks!
post #11078 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTABLASTAS View Post

...HDMI looks fantastic, but since most channels are SD I thought i'd ask....

SD on HDMI??? What do you mean by HDMI looks fantastic? What cable company are you using, and do you subscribe to the high def channels?
post #11079 of 14945
I am going to be receiving my first 5020 from BB on Wednesday. (previous samsung 4071 and 40750 owner, who hated their lack of uniformity)

this is what is in the 5020 Manuel

"• Activate the GAME mode on the AV Selection submenu to play a game but try to limit using this mode for more than two hours at a time.
View full-motion, high-action video in WIDE or FULL screen after playing a game or showing a still/PC image.
The recommended duration for showing the action video is three times as long as the game or PC image"



doesn't that imply that after 2 hours of still graphics onscreen... That something with high motion should be played-

My question is! doesn't that seem contrary to the break in images? Should you play something with fast motion every 2 hours when using the break in images?

thanks!
post #11080 of 14945
Does anyone use the 5020 or 6020 with a Popcorn Hour a100 or a110?

Curious how it is working for you if you are-

thank you~
post #11081 of 14945
long time listener, first time caller...

Have had the 5020 since December, have used best settings (non-calibrated) on Standard from page 1 of thread, and have been very happy with purchase.

Have found blacks to be ideal, but always tempted to turn up brightness a bit to coax a bit more detail.

Purchased the Panasonic DMP-BD60 a week ago, and found a gamma adjustment in the video setting. I find by adjusting the gamma up a few notches while keeping the 5020 on "best settings", I can get the deep blacks I want with a bit more detail.

Any comments from the pros? Perhaps I could have achieved something similar by going with calibration on cinema settings, but I'm happy with what I have in any case....unless I could do even better...?
post #11082 of 14945
The break-in images are not static, they change every 30 seconds, so there's no image retention involved. Yes, they are full screen, but wouldn't be considered static.
post #11083 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

The break-in images are not static, they change every 30 seconds, so there's no image retention involved. Yes, they are full screen, but wouldn't be considered static.

Thank You-

And I concur but there is still isn't any "motion" as there would be with content with a lot of action motion that they request after playing a game for two hours-

i know my reasoning if futile but i am still trying to wrap my brain around it.
post #11084 of 14945
A couple questions please.

When Im watching bluray I have it set to 1080p/24 when available. This gives the best picture right? Now, you have all these settings from auto, full, dot by dot and so on.

What is the best setting. I think dot by dot would be the best but I want to know from someone who has experience and can explain the difference between the 3.

Also too, is there any way to change the color of the side bars when your watching normal tv. They are a grey color and I want them black. Its really annoying.

Thanks guys
post #11085 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by needlesbox View Post

Does anyone use the 5020 or 6020 with a Popcorn Hour a100 or a110?

Curious how it is working for you if you are-

thank you~

I'm using an a100 with my 6020 and have no problems. Do you have any specific questions?
post #11086 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkwong View Post

I'm using an a100 with my 6020 and have no problems. Do you have any specific questions?

sure do-

when using an a100 and a110 on my other samsung lcd's it wouldn't let me turn film mode on and there was way too much judder-

How does the motion look? Are there any settings that I should know about when calibrating it? Also how do you feel that it handles 720p content?

I'm really excited to try it out!

I actually will probably just use the popcorn hour with the break in images-

thanks~
post #11087 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by needlesbox View Post

sure do-

when using an a100 and a110 on my other samsung lcd's it wouldn't let me turn film mode on and there was way too much judder-

Do you mean film mode on your samsung lcd? My 6020 replaced a samsung lcd as well, though it was a 5265f, so no 120Hz/24p support. When I set the a100 to output 1080p/24, the 6020 will switch to 72Hz mode as long as I have PC mode set to Standard or Advanced.

Quote:


How does the motion look? Are there any settings that I should know about when calibrating it? Also how do you feel that it handles 720p content?

Motion looks fine. I actually put the AVSHD mp4 files on the a100 and used that to calibrate my display. I use the same settings on the TV for both the a100 and my Panasonic BD30 bluray player (also calibrated using the AVSHD material).

I've watched both 720p and 1080p material and I find it hard to distinguish between the two. I sit about 12' away though, so YMMV.

Quote:


I'm really excited to try it out!

I actually will probably just use the popcorn hour with the break in images-

I actually didn't bother with the break-in images. I've done a combination of SD (with gray bars), HD cable, bluray, popcorn hour, and 360 gaming and have not seen any burn-in or image retention so far.
post #11088 of 14945
Silly question, but what is this "popcorn hour" that you refer to?
post #11089 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Silly question, but what is this "popcorn hour" that you refer to?

Googling is such a lost artform. Anyway...

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/
post #11090 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by christian30 View Post

A couple questions please.

When Im watching bluray I have it set to 1080p/24 when available. This gives the best picture right? Now, you have all these settings from auto, full, dot by dot and so on.

What is the best setting. I think dot by dot would be the best but I want to know from someone who has experience and can explain the difference between the 3.

Also too, is there any way to change the color of the side bars when your watching normal tv. They are a grey color and I want them black. Its really annoying.

Thanks guys

I'm sure others will be able to answer this better, but I will get you started.

1080p/24 doesn't give a better PQ but what it does change is how 'smooth?' the movie is displayed. Typically the movies are filmed at 24 fps so this plays them back the same way they were filmed. If you play them back this way, it is in the most natural form and way they were intended to be seen (and how they are shown in theaters). If you do not use 24 fps, it can cause the juddering that people mention, especially on fast-moving scenes. But, 24 fps can also have some weird effects that many viewers do not like so if the movies 'just don't look right' to you, try them without 24 fps and see what you like better.

For Blu-ray, you will want to use dot-by-dot. This setting allows every pixel to be displayed 1:1 so there is not overscan. Watching Blu-rays at 24 fps in dot-by-dot mode will give you the most natural 'film experience,' the closest to how the directors intended it to be.

I haven't messed with the side bars at all because I rarely watch shows that have them, but I believe the only way to change them is in ControlCAL. Do you not like when the 4:3 picture is stretched? On my 5020, the auto display feature works great and stretches the few 4:3 shows I do watch in about 2 seconds, eliminating the bars.
post #11091 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Googling is such a lost artform....

Thank you for the link...using capitals may have led me to the Google search!
post #11092 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Nothing containing alcohol or ammonia (or other chemicals) should ever be used on the surface of Kuro panels - both will remove the outer coating where it is applied and there IS NO FIX if you do that. The outer surface is NOT glass... it is a sprayed-on coating that is very delicate. Pioneer says only the dry cloth they provide should be used on the screen. When pressed, they will admit water is safe. Pressed further they will say that cleaners intended for plastic eyeglass lenses "should" be safe (providing there is no alcohol or ammonia in the formula)... but they have not tested eyeglass cleaners and will not officially recommend their use. The manual does say "dry cloth only" and that's the only thing they recommend... on the record.

The best possible thing is to never get the screen surface dirty and never clean it.

Bummer... but hey this is the most in-depth answers I've gotten so far. Thanks!

I still question the practicality of Pioneer's design choice and solution though. Unless a TV is protected behind glass like museum collections or at least used in a room with adult only, there's going to be some tough smudges that get attached to the screen.

Further, besides using dry cloth from factory, Pioneer also recommends against repeated heard rubber as it may cause scratches. I'll try to live with what I'm allowed to do now but still if there're some brave souls that tried and found good wet cleaning solutions, please share...
post #11093 of 14945
My calibrated 5020 measured (with HCFR and DTP-94) quite well with an upscaling DVD player (BD coming soon but DVD now)- accurate color temp and gamma. However, with PC (Vista) connection through HDMI, no matter how I adjusted or calibrated (in LUT with Monaco Optix-XR), the lumi curve was just bad- contrast too high in mid tone while too low near shadow and highlight. Anyone knows what's going on? I speculate there's some setting problems but so far couldn't find any.
post #11094 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehien View Post

My calibrated 5020 measured (with HCFR and DTP-94) quite well with an upscaling DVD player (BD coming soon but DVD now)- accurate color temp and gamma. However, with PC (Vista) connection through HDMI, no matter how I adjusted or calibrated (in LUT with Monaco Optix-XR), the lumi curve was just bad- contrast too high in mid tone while too low near shadow and highlight. Anyone knows what's going on? I speculate there's some setting problems but so far couldn't find any.

you might try and drop Jeff Meier an email at his site accucalhd.com, or a pm here on avs he is UMR. he's a well known and respected calibrator and he has mentioned problems using htpc as sources
post #11095 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 View Post

you might try and drop Jeff Meier an email at his site accucalhd.com, or a pm here on avs he is UMR. he's a well known and respected calibrator and he has mentioned problems using htpc as sources

Thanks! I'll contact Jeff but it'll be great if this can be continued as public discussion as others may encounter same problem with 5020 in HTPC setup.

Actually, since my HTPC setup took form after arrival of 5020, it has been working out better than I expected and a big portion of 5020 time has been under such setup. So solving this issue is critical.

Without any correction in graphic card's LUT or any changes in setting, I was expecting good results, as the measured accuracy with DVD player were spot on.

I've fixed one issue- that 5020's AUTO mode in HDMI color type would wrongly select color-3 (16-235 RGB signals) instead of the proper color-4 (0-255) so shadow and highlight appeared clipped. With color-4 the gradients in shadow and highlight resurfaced and gamma became more linear but it's still far from the near-perfect performance with DVD HDMI signals.

BTW, I'm connecting HTPC to 5020 through HDMI, just to make absolute sure about this...

Well... I'll be looking forward to any advises and comments I can get.
post #11096 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

If 360 Standard Mode color looks off its likely because your signal type and/or colorspace settings on the Kuro do not match what you have the Console set to send. See my reference post PS3 and 360 Settings for Kuro

That post is not relevant. I'm referring to using the VGA port on the Kuro. When using that port, the HDMI Input option is grayed out.
post #11097 of 14945
BB is dropping off my 5020 in about an hour-
I am nervous as hell that I am going to get one that does the loud buzz...

I haven't had much luck getting a good set in my day-

fingers crossed.
post #11098 of 14945
needlesbox: I got my 5020 from best buy last week I assume from their "warehouse" and it was perfect. The box was perfect not even a scratch. The screen was perfect. The buzzing is there but I only notice it when the room is completely quiet and i'm close to the tv. I think this is normal for this model. Note that BB delivery wont attach the speaker you will have to do that yourself but honestly i didnt want the BB guys touching the tv. I just had them unpack it and lay it down on the tv stand and I plugged it in to make sure it turned on.
post #11099 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fant View Post

needlesbox: I got my 5020 from best buy last week I assume from their "warehouse" and it was perfect. The box was perfect not even a scratch. The screen was perfect. The buzzing is there but I only notice it when the room is completely quiet and i'm close to the tv. I think this is normal for this model. Note that BB delivery wont attach the speaker you will have to do that yourself but honestly i didnt want the BB guys touching the tv. I just had them unpack it and lay it down on the tv stand and I plugged it in to make sure it turned on.

Fant!

thank you for the confidence restorer-

now the only problem is that the are pushing the window of their delivery time and i have to get back to work for a meeting- might have to call and reschedule or pick up tonight.

thanks again for your input
post #11100 of 14945
they had actually called me to move up the delivery. I told them to call me an hour before they come and I came home then
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