The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 384

I am seeing an extreme amount of judder while watching dvds on my 5020 via PS3. I don't see any judder with Blu-rays and videos encoded with xvid. But my whole collection of dvds look as if I'm watching a slideshow. Would this be judder? Like a bunch of still images. When the camera pans left to right it makes my head dizzy from all the stops.

Scenes with no pans are fine for the most part, but whenever the camera moves it isn't fluid. So I'm thinking it has to be on my part and I'm not setting up the player/tv correctly.

I tried all Purecinema modes, but they all act the same. Even smooth, which earlier I reported as enjoying, but not for dvd. I'm hoping someone is bound to see the camera panning problems on dvd as I am and have found a fix for this.

Anyone?

I have been trying for some time to get a reasonably reliable measurement of the black level of the 9th generation Pioneers. It is really difficult. The technology exceeds the ability of most measuring techniques.

I finally obtained a Minolta LS-100, which is the industry standard device for such measurements. It is a very expensive and very accurate device. It reads all the way down to 0.001 fL.

Getting an on/off (sequential) measurement was not that difficult. I got 119.3/0.003 cd/m2 or 39,767:1.

Getting a good checkboard (simultaneous) contrast reading was MUCH more difficult. Because the Minolta does not do a particularly good job of rejecting light that is outside of its measurement radius, simply pointing the viewfinder at the light and dark checkerboards doesn't work. The black checkerboards are contaminated by light from the bright ones.

I finally got it to work by placing dark cloth across the entire screen. I then cut a hole in the cloth approximately the size of one of the checkerboards. That way only the light from that one square would be available to the Minolta's sensors.

Using this technique, I got 102/0.012 cd/m2 or 8,500:1. This is an incredible technological achievement. This exceeds by several orders of magnitude any other display technology that I am aware of.

D-Nice I want to thank you for pointing out to me that a re-calibration is worthwhile between 1,500 and 2,000 hours. UMR was stopping by on his California tour to do a minor free adjustment to our audio due to some equipment changes. I had him re-calibrate it. At 1,890 hours the set had gotton dimmer, but the gray scale was hanging in there pretty good. It's looking great again. Thanks.

yet pioneer cant sell them at a profit and has to stop making them quantity over quality baby

Well if they sold them at the prices they are now, they would have sold alot more. However who knows if they're actually making a profit on the ones at the current price.

I have to agree. Speaking only for myself, I bought a KRP-500M because of these new prices, but I would have never been able to buy one for $5,000 or whatever the MSRP was...

I think PC:Smooth gets a bad rap on this forum because of the occasional hiccup. I also noticed artificating on that particular scene in DN, but in all fairness its a pretty complex one for the Kuro to handle. The "errors" are few and far between IMO. Overall frame interpolation on the 5020 is not too bad considering it doesn't suffer too much from the "soap opera" affect that plagues 120hz LCD's, and really does help smooth out some of the judder and sharpen motion resolution. I find it especially useful for watching sports and animated movies, but mostly leave it off during film movies.

Mark my words, frame interpolation is going to be the next big thing, allowing broadcasters to save a ton of bandwidth by sending higher quality resolution images at a lower frame rate, leaving the display device (or set top box) to fill in the rest.

This is interesting as it seems you are really getting alot of potential variety. I have a few questions that I hope make sense.

1) I assume your critical viewing is in Movie
and you use PC: Advanced? What is the measurment for MOVIE with PC: OFF or STANDARD

2) Would your PC: OFF measurements be the same for PC: Standard? Allowing you to still take advantage of the 24fps when sent from a blu-ray player?

I'm still working towards set it and forget it. LOL.

Thanks for you input.

I tried to search because I'm sure this question has been answered. But I connected my new PC through my AVR out to the Kuro but it doesn't fill the whole screen. The display is set to 1920x1080 but there is a good 2inches of space unfilled on each side. Is there any way to fill the entire screen?

I'm sure the artifacts are few and far between and would be less of an issue for me if I wasn't already happy with Standard and Advance 72Hz mode. I think using those modes to display 24fps looks great.

Are you sure you've turned Off all AVR video processing in the mix? Are you getting black bars to top and sides, or ones to just the top and bottom?

Ah never mind I fixed it, I had to play with the over/underscan in my ATI Catalyst control center. Thanks for the quick response Jim!

1) all blu-ray/hd dvd/dvd viewing falls under movie with pc adv. If I switch to PC Off, after having calibrated Standard AV Mode down to 7100k with PC Off, Movie mode takes a nose dive. I can't remember where it settled, but it was below 6000k.

2) I'm not sure, I never use anything but PC off for viewing with all sources until calibrating PC adv. for movies.

If I set anything other than PC off, I notice what seems to be terrible interlacing or tearing from my dish vip722 (never noticed it with the 360 or any other source). It doesn't worry me though, I chalk it up to all of the signal molestation that goes on from compression to broadcast to re-compression at dish to overcrowded transponders in space to my dish and through the 722 etc. After all of that I'm surprised any of it still looks kind of high def. at all.

If I get a chance this weekend, I'll take a few measures with PC Standard. The new ControlCal profile does make it possible to find a better balance between all of the settings.

I have the DISH VPI722 too but set it to PC standard, advanced gets messed up for me too from their transcoding, seems to drop frames/out of sync. I have not seen and interlacing/tearing issues in standard though.

I'll have to give it another go, to be honest it's possible after seeing issues with advanced I swore off all PC modes but Off.

PC:Advanced forces 72Hz for all content, even stuff that is 30fps. That's likely the cause of the artifacts. Using PC:Standard should be the best solution as it will use 60Hz for 30fps stuff and 72Hz for 24fps stuff, ie. rendered natively without any pulldowns.

Right, but I'm not sure it's entirely the fault of the PC mode. It's not a random artifact here and there, it's almost every few seconds. The best way I can describe it, it's like firing up the stadium scene on the HQV disc. The first split second there may be some artifacting, but once the set's processor locks on the picture is good. It seems as though the 5020 is struggling to get a handle on what the actual frame rate of the content is.

it should'nt be, only when it detects a film cadence should it switch to 72hz. I saw it using my high tech test device, during commercials it would switch back to 60hz, during film back to 72hz.

That's not what others have measured, unless the commercials you saw were in 1080/60p.

I think I know what you're talking about. I've seen something similar when I view 720p content on my TivoHD converted to 1080i to my 6020. If I use PC:Advanced, then I see lots of stuttering/dropped frames. When I switch to PC:Standard or PC:Off, it looks fine. I think it's having problems performing pulldown to convert the 30fps to 72fps.

I have dish and I have noticed this happening as well while watching Lost. I haven't noiced it in a few weeks so I am guess I got used to it. I think the effect PC Advanced has on games looks great though. It seems as though when the game has slow down and drops below 30fps the PC advanced smooths it out and it looks even better. I wish I could get a video of this effect somehow so others could see.

Does PC video mode make a difference when using the Kuro with a computer or are the normal modes fine?

I like using the PC HDMI input mode when using the Kuro as a monitor, as it allows me to configure that to my liking and when I change back to video input mode, it stays on the last picture preset and settings I was using in that mode. Makes it easy to switch between using the PC or playing a blu-ray movie, etc.

I still swap over to game mode when I play a Pc game most of the time, if I can remember to do it.

That could be it. ABC is by far the worst when it comes to PC advanced and if I remember correctly ABC is 720p with the 722 set at 1080i there's no telling how well the box scales the resolution. Though it still does occur with 1080i stations as well. Bottom line for me is I'm going to have to try PC Standard to see if that eases the problem.

What are your settings for PC mode?

Has anyone pulled the trigger on the April/May 2009 firmware yet?

Observations?

A_C

I don't put any settings on the Kuro.. I used the Windows 7 color calibration tool and the ATI control panel to handle the adjustments. I just switch the Kuro to PC Input mode and use the video card's color settings to adjust it.

Several have and none have reported any problems.

Something I noticed the other day while watching an episode of Criminal Minds on CBS, the first part of the season finale. During the episode there was an amber alert and the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen was studdering, however every couple of seconds it would be smooth.

I replayed the scene many times playing with the PC modes and the only one that provided consistent smooth scrolling of the text was PC: off.

I'm leaving this setting off for a while to see.