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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 439

post #13141 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

According to the 9G Comparison Thread the 500A has Pro Adjust and ISF which makes it an Elite. Does page 38 in the english section of your operating instructions have an image like the attached jpeg?


Please see the KRP FAQ.

I have all the modes shown in the image except Pure. Oh yeah, I don't have ISF too. I guess my set is gimped.

Also, I read through the FAQ, and I'm pretty sure I get the idea of what's happening with the RGB bug, but here's my scenario:

Both my PS3 and Xbox 360 are set to Auto (they detect RGB and Y'CbCr and display them as such respectively) and their colour space for RGB are both set at 16-235 (PS3 is on "Limited" and 360 is on "Standard").

My KRP-500A is set to "Auto" as well in the HDMI settings, but games and videos don't seem washed out like the bug suggests. I have a Western Digital Media player and videos seem to be of the correct colour space as well, although there's no setting on the media player to force "16-235" for RGB..I think that's because it uses Y'CbCr (not confirmed).

So, the FAQ says to force the KRP to use "16-235" right? So I do that, and there's no difference between "Auto" and "16-235" for RGB content...the same blacks, no washing out of colours. Doesn't that mean that Auto is working as it should be?

However, when I force the KRP setting to "0-255", both the Xbox and PS3 displays for RGB content immediately become washed out. Now I'm scratching my head...I mean, I have been using Auto for my KRP all this while and everything seems ok, but I'm still not very sure what's supposed to be correct.

Oh yeah, when I have my KRP on "16-235" or "0-255", the colour of Y'CbCr content is screwed up, have a magenta hue over everything.
post #13142 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

It appears that Pioneer is mapping YCbCr signal to RGB(0-255) internally when doing the final output to the screen (remember, the plasma panel is a RGB device, ultimately, all color space must be mapped to RGB eventually). The standard brightness setting was based on this incorrect mapping. When you present the 500M with a correct RGB(16-235) signal, you'll find that the brightness is too high.

I believe you are conflating clipping and color space issues and then coming up with a misguided solution to clipping by creating a color space level mismatch - i.e., sending a source as RGB Limited ("Normal") to the KRP configured as RGB Full (0-255) or Auto, with Brightness @-15 to compensate. Although it might look okay, your solution will introduce banding and other side effects.

Take a look at a gray scale ramp pattern with your configuration (Denon RGB Normal -> KRP RGB Full) and note the level of banding in the pattern. Then leave the Denon on RGB Normal and change the KRP's Input setting to RGB-Limited(16-235) and raise the Brightness back to 0 or +1. The banding should now be essentially invisible.
post #13143 of 14941
Hi Guy,

I did some more testings today. Here is what I found:

Direct Denon 4010 to 500M connection:

S&M contrast chart looks the same with 4010 color space set to YCbCr, 500M color space set to Auto or YCbCr

S&M contrast chart looks the same with 4010 color space set to RGB Normal, 500M color space set to Auto or RGB(16-235)

Denon 4010 connect via Denon A1HD amp, then to 500M:

S&M contrast chart looks the same with 4010 color space set to YCbCr, 500M color space set to Auto or YCbCr

S&M contrast chart looks the same with 4010 color space set to RGB Enhanced, 500M color space set to Auto or RGB(16-235)

Now, it appears that the Denon amp has swapped the RGB(0-255) with RGB(16-235) on a RGB input!

Another observation is that the picture quality is indeed slightly better using YCbCr signal instead of RGB as I can see the outline of the white patches on the contrast test chart, while there is no visible outline using the RGB output from the 4010.

It also just occured to me that I maybe intrepreting the contrast chart incorrectly. It was because the Sony VW80 that I have connected to the Denon A1HD amp was showing me the complete gradation of all the white patches, while the 500M clipped at around 235. I incorrect thought that the 500M was clipping the video signal. But in fact, 235 is white and all values above that should be clipped to white as well. So it was the Sony that was not displaying the contrast chart correctly.

So it would appear that: 1. The Denon A1HD amp is incorrectly passing RGB(16-235) signal, 2. The Sony VW80 is incorrectly processing YCbCr to YCbCr(0-255) on the output (or it could be HDMI handshaking error).

I think the cure is to set the Denon 4010 to RGB Enhanced. This will cheat the Denon A1HD amp into outputting RGB(16-235). I did this one night and I've seen both 500M and VW80 showing identical pictures (I mostly looked at the noise and graduation in the dark areas).

With 500M back to the factory setting, there is indeed a green channel clipping with S&M clipping test.

And Whew! I'm relieved that my 500M is not processing the color space incorrectly. It was actually the Denon amp screwing things up and my Sony VW80 having problem with the YCbCr signal.
post #13144 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepulture View Post

I have all the modes shown in the image except Pure. Oh yeah, I don't have ISF too. I guess my set is gimped.

It's possible there are variations on the 500A. Of course if your manual says you should have pure then something is clearly wrong.
Quote:


when I have my KRP on "16-235" or "0-255", the colour of Y'CbCr content is screwed up, have a magenta hue over everything.

That's correct.
post #13145 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

It's possible there are variations on the 500A. Of course if your manual says you should have pure then something is clearly wrong.

That's correct.

I checked the manual, there's no PURE setting besides the ones I've listed. I suppose STANDARD is the closest match?

Also, I find it strange that most people have their Colour Space set to 2. 1 is supposed to make the colour more vibrant doesn't it? I find that it looks more pleasing to me...any reason to setting it to 2?

Does Drive Mode affect 1080p and 720p sources? I have it set to 3 currently...
post #13146 of 14941
I just bought a pdp-6020fp and love it. Last night I was watching the 5th Element and I notice that there was a 3/8s border around the panel. Then I switch to Directv and it was the same. Looking at it closer I can see arrows in this border. Is this suppose to be there or is there something wrong? I did not notice this before.

Going crazy
Mike
post #13147 of 14941
I have to say, I have been very impressed by certain demos of the 6020FD.

However, on certain the Youtube vids the blue leading and green trailing edges are very visible. Granted that they record at 30fps and the decay time for green phosphor is about 8ms. So it is exaggerated by about 4 times.

So I guess the question is, is it really visible "in person" with fast moving/panning scenes?
post #13148 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_chic View Post

I just bought a pdp-6020fp and love it. Last night I was watching the 5th Element and I notice that there was a 3/8s border around the panel. Then I switch to Directv and it was the same. Looking at it closer I can see arrows in this border. Is this suppose to be there or is there something wrong? I did not notice this before.

Going crazy
Mike

That black border around the screen is normal. Those hatch marks in the narrow black border is also normal.
post #13149 of 14941
I just wanted to know what's the difference between the Pro141 and the Pro151?

As I understand it the only thing lacking in the 6020 is the extensive PQ control options.
post #13150 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by unap16 View Post

I just wanted to know what's the difference between the Pro141 and the Pro151?


9G model differences are summarized in the Comparison Thread mentioned a few posts back.
post #13151 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_chic View Post

I just bought a pdp-6020fp and love it. Last night I was watching the 5th Element and I notice that there was a 3/8s border around the panel. Then I switch to Directv and it was the same. Looking at it closer I can see arrows in this border. Is this suppose to be there or is there something wrong? I did not notice this before.

Going crazy
Mike

Congrats ! I also have the 6020 and it has excellent PQ im very very happy with mine.
post #13152 of 14941
My 6020 was just delivered, half hour earlier than the 4 hour window quoted to me, which made me happy, but delivery guys would only bring it into the house and make sure it worked, and not set it up. I had paid $100 extra for "white glove" delivery. It wouldn't turn on until they took it completely out of the packaging. Frustrating finally getting the TV and not being able to watch it.
post #13153 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egan View Post

My 6020 was just delivered, half hour earlier than the 4 hour window quoted to me, which made me happy, but delivery guys would only bring it into the house and make sure it worked, and not set it up. I had paid $100 extra for "white glove" delivery. It wouldn't turn on until they took it completely out of the packaging. Frustrating finally getting the TV and not being able to watch it.

Hey another guy that lives close to me. I am in Freemansburg, PA. I just got a 101FD, still sitting in the box because I couldn't get a stand, but today I'm picking up the stand. I can't wait to get this thing set up and start tweaking. Too bad you didn't get a 101FD or I didn't get a 6020. We could have compared sets and settings.
post #13154 of 14941
Hi Jackal2001,

Congrats on your purchase. I really wanted a 151 but couldn't find one anywhere (for a reasonable price), I'll have to "settle" for the 6020. Got a friend coming over to help me get it set up after he leaves work so I'll soon have it up and running. I was also wondering about settings, I guess I'll use D-Nice's settings for after break in although I'm not doing the slides. If anyone could post their settings that would be great.
post #13155 of 14941
The 6020 is up and running, beautiful pic using D-Nice's settings. But there's something weird I can't figure out, have DirecTV with an HD DVR and an SD DirecTivo, all outputs go to an Anthem D2 pre/pro and outputted via HDMI to the TV. The DirecTivo pic is in black and white, can't get any color.

And can't attach the speaker, missing screws.
post #13156 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egan View Post

The 6020 is up and running, beautiful pic using D-Nice's settings. But there's something weird I can't figure out, have DirecTV with an HD DVR and an SD DirecTivo, all outputs go to an Anthem D2 pre/pro and outputted via HDMI to the TV. The DirecTivo pic is in black and white, can't get any color.

And can't attach the speaker, missing screws.

I would give Pioneer a call and im sure they'll send you some out, your going to like the speaker once hooked up it the best sounding display provided sound bar i've ever heard. I find myself listening to it once in a while when im not in the mood for 7.2 . Not sure about your other setup issues though but im sure someone will chime in . Be sure to just use the dry micro fiber towel provided to wipe the screen down lightly once in a while. These 6020's are great displays and once you get everything dialed I think you'll be very happy and congrats again !
post #13157 of 14941
Called Pioneer, they won't send me the screws (for free) as I purchased from a non authorized dealer. They charged me $27 and change for 9 screws. I bought them though to save the hassle of finding other screws that would fit, and I paid an amazingly low price for the TV including 3 year in house parts and labor service contract. Just did a firmware update.
post #13158 of 14941
Quote:
The 6020 is up and running, beautiful pic using D-Nice's settings. But there's something weird I can't figure out, have DirecTV with an HD DVR and an SD DirecTivo, all outputs go to an Anthem D2 pre/pro and outputted via HDMI to the TV. The DirecTivo pic is in black and white, can't get any color.

If you still have the issue with SD DirecTVivo (SD, ugh!) you might try bypassing the receiver and going directly to the 6020. If nothing else it will help id where the problem is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egan View Post

Hi Jackal2001,

Congrats on your purchase. I really wanted a 151 but couldn't find one anywhere (for a reasonable price), I'll have to "settle" for the 6020. Got a friend coming over to help me get it set up after he leaves work so I'll soon have it up and running. I was also wondering about settings, I guess I'll use D-Nice's settings for after break in although I'm not doing the slides. If anyone could post their settings that would be great.

Congrats to you both, as the owner of entirely too many HD displays (over 10 personally + more for business) including a 500M and the 6020 I can tell you that a Kuro is a Kuro. Yes, you get some nice bells and whistles to adjust the Elites and Monitors but the basic level of superb PQ is the same and it's head and shoulders on most any other flat panel I've seen.

D-Nice reference settings are a great start. You can also find more 9G Kuro Non-Elite settings in this thread. Get your display calibrated and do the research on how to use it's features and you'll be getting 60" of Tier 1 HD visuals for a long time.
post #13159 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

If you still have the issue with SD DirecTVivo (SD, ugh!) you might try bypassing the receiver and going directly to the 6020. If nothing else it will help id where the problem is.



Congrats to you both, as the owner of entirely too many HD displays (over 10 personally + more for business) including a 500M and the 6020 I can tell you that a Kuro is a Kuro. Yes, you get some nice bells and whistles to adjust the Elites and Monitors but the basic level of superb PQ is the same and it's head and shoulders on most any other flat panel I've seen.

D-Nice reference settings are a great start. You can also find more 9G Kuro Non-Elite settings in this thread. Get your display calibrated and do the research on how to use it's features and you'll be getting 60" of Tier 1 HD visuals for a long time.

Thanks! I'm so glad I nabbed a Kuro before they are all gone. Was kind of interested in 3D but decided picture quality trumped that. I do plan to get an ISF calibration but can't believe how good the picture quality is now with D-Nice's post settings.

As to the black and white issue with the SD DirecTivo, I was going to try using the composite cable instead of the S-video feed, while looking at the cables I thought to just make sure the S-video cable was in good, no reason why it shouldn't be, but it was actually loose, I pushed it in and problem solved. I guess that is one of the things I should have checked sooner but I had assumed if the cable was loose I wouldn't have ANY picture, not a b&w pic. So all is well and I'm loving this TV.

Can anyone recommend a good ISF calibrator? I'm in eastern PA.
post #13160 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

If you still have the issue with SD DirecTVivo (SD, ugh!) you might try bypassing the receiver and going directly to the 6020. If nothing else it will help id where the problem is.



Congrats to you both, as the owner of entirely too many HD displays (over 10 personally + more for business) including a 500M and the 6020 I can tell you that a Kuro is a Kuro. Yes, you get some nice bells and whistles to adjust the Elites and Monitors but the basic level of superb PQ is the same and it's head and shoulders on most any other flat panel I've seen.

D-Nice reference settings are a great start. You can also find more 9G Kuro Non-Elite settings in this thread. Get your display calibrated and do the research on how to use it's features and you'll be getting 60" of Tier 1 HD visuals for a long time.

Thanks for the link and info ! I'm another happy camper with my 6020 after a long road with other displays I've finally found one im happy with and happy is a understatement !
post #13161 of 14941
This is the time of year when our Kuros really shine.

I love Ncaa playoffs with all arenas having black borders on
the out of bounds and watching teams with black uniforms
like Wake Forest or SDSU.

This is why I got a kuro, true, absolutely stunning blacks.

using D-nice settings, non calib.

also credit to cbs for absolutely best hd pq of any network!
post #13162 of 14941
Whats amazing is no matter what im watching on my Kuro it never fails to disappoint and just when I dont think it can get any better it does !
post #13163 of 14941
CBS has the absolute worst picture quality for me. Sports look awful in particular. Tons of macroblocking. It's awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estoniankid View Post

This is the time of year when our Kuros really shine.

I love Ncaa playoffs with all arenas having black borders on
the out of bounds and watching teams with black uniforms
like Wake Forest or SDSU.

This is why I got a kuro, true, absolutely stunning blacks.

using D-nice settings, non calib.

also credit to cbs for absolutely best hd pq of any network!
post #13164 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydog76 View Post

CBS has the absolute worst picture quality for me. Sports look awful in particular. Tons of macroblocking. It's awful.



well it all comes down to your local cbs and sub channels and
whether you get it via ota or get it from a provider.

all I can say is here in s.f bay area via dish, cbs clearly
has best sports hd pq.

damn the blacks are rich and deep. eye candy.
I toast to the pure beauty of the Kuro!
post #13165 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoniankid View Post

damn the blacks are rich and deep. Eye candy.
I toast to the pure beauty of the kuro!

Salute !!!
post #13166 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoniankid View Post

well it all comes down to your local cbs and sub channels and
whether you get it via ota or get it from a provider.

all I can say is here in s.f bay area via dish, cbs clearly
has best sports hd pq.

damn the blacks are rich and deep. eye candy.
I toast to the pure beauty of the Kuro!

I agree. The games looked really good OTA. You can watch all the games on ncaa.com for free too. I'm thinking of hooking my macbook up to my 5020 and select HD quality on the web site to see how they look over the internet on my tv.
post #13167 of 14941
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothydog76 View Post

CBS has the absolute worst picture quality for me. Sports look awful in particular. Tons of macroblocking. It's awful.

CBS affiliate in San Diego is bad too and they do not have any subchannels, old crappy encoder
post #13168 of 14941
CBS looks great in Oregon Of course it rains so much out here thats all you can do so they better make it wright lol
post #13169 of 14941
Can anyone point out how to use the picture in picture feature on the 6020, specifically how to get a picture on the second screen. My HDMI goes to input 7, I want to see input 1 after I use the picture in picture function instead of blank screen. Manual is not helpful at all. Thanks in advance.
post #13170 of 14941
OTA- HD really looks great on my 5020.
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