The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 53

I just checked the measurements and while it won't work on the top shelf with the 6020, (the height blocks a bit of the 6020 screen and it's not wide enough believe it or not!), it will fit perfectly on the middle shelf. I'll just need to buy a combo DVD/VHS unit to get rid of one component and stash the Dish STB somewhere to get rid of another to make room.

Anybody know where I could find a 5080? Or are they pretty much gone? I recently just missed a floor model at Best buy (long UGLY story). I am just wondering if it is even possible to get one anymore. Thanks.

Did BB get into their inventory system to see if they had any anywhere else?

Have you tried the forum sponsers?

I bought the 6020 based on the good performance of a friend's 6010 as well as some objective reviews. My assumption was that the 6020 would have better or at least the same features/performance as the 6010. Poor assumption. Never would I have expected Pioneer deliberately to hamstring the 6020's potential just create an artificial gap between it and its Elite counterpart, the 151.

Do I understand it correctly that they removed both color temperature and grayscale controls that were on the 6010?

I just completed the 150 hour break in and my enthusiasm has been severely dampened. I should have found and read this site sooner.

You cannot change color temp but Movie mode is c. 6350k, so that isn't your worry. It's the color points being off that is the real issue versus the Elites.

I find movie mode too dark, so being relegated that one setting that I don't prefer doesn't help matters. Raising the brightness too high produces a wash-out effect (I followed D-nice's settings and worked from there). Perhaps I lack the expertise to make it work.

I take your word for it that the color points variation poses a serious issue; but I can accept certain shortcomings as compared to the elite in terms of quality. What disturbs me is that certain shortcomings seem needlessly imposed purely for marketing. Why alter a model for the worse?! They might as well have made the bezel out of lead to show how comparatively light the Elite is.

If I could sell the 6020 for near what I bought it I would get the Elite, but I don't think it is in the cards. Now I would just love to hear that someone more able than I finds a way to adjust the blocked 6020 settings.

Until then I am interested to hear what others have to say, as I have little experience with these things and don't rightly know how these changes would affect the 6020' picture. Maybe someone will arrive at other satisfactory setting options not yet posted. I just want to enjoy the set, and at the moment I have deep reservations. I'll appreciate any information or advice.

On any screen or particularly the Pioneer? What is it about a liquid cleaner that is so bad for these sets?

yes, it's called mass and that equals weight.......

if you check the overall dimensions you will see the 9g are thinner and have shed about 10lbs.

with the pioneer 8g/9g models having single pane panels, the bonded filter is on the OUTSIDE of the glass so it can be damaged more easily than a regular glass surface, especially if using a wet/chemical product in it.

take a flashlight and examine it closely or touch it (with clean fingers in a corner) and you will see it has a slight texture feel to it unlike smooth glass.

Folks. Break-in of my 5020 is over. FINALLY!

I'm not done tweaking my system yet, but so far I'm very happy. Still have no complaints that I didn't go with the Elite. Again, would I have liked one? Sure. But I'd also like to live in a 3,000+ home in the suburbs and drive an Aston Martin. Considering that I live in a condo in the city and take the subway, I'm a lot closer to my dreams on the TV front. It would have been fun to have access to the extra settings, and I acknowledge that I probably would have been able to eek out a better picture for movie viewing. But for $1,000? No way. I'm not knocking anyone who can afford the extra coin or who has years of experience evaluating picture quality with a myriad of different sets. I understand why someone who fits either of those descriptions would choose an Elite. But for anyone out there lurking who doesn't and is gnashing their teeth over the lack of settingsdon't loose sleep over it; go for the non-Elite.

I am going to do my best to post my thoughts and settings (to the extent that settings exist on a 5020 ), but it will probably be in a series of short posts today, and perhaps running into the next few days. I wish I had the kind of time to allow me to sit down and put all of my thoughts together in one big post, but I don't. One more reason why D-Nice rocks.

Speaking of the man. D-Nice I know this has been done many times already, but I would like to thank you for everything you do here. I am amazed at your passion and don't know how you find the time to share it with us. I knew I wanted to get a Pioneer after comparing 8G's to last year's Panny's in a Magnolia until I ended up with a splitting headache. But it was still a tough call to pull the trigger. It was knowing that you would be posting your thoughts and settings that convinced me that I could get the most out of a Pio. Oh, and I especially appreciate the 2001 reference in the 6020 review. And that someone from South Carolina thought enough of us northerners to give us a comment about the look of hockey ice.

Here's my experience with some of the issues that seem to inspire the most questions around here. I'll post more details on all of these things later, as relevant, when I post about picture quality and settings.

Buzz. Yes, Virginia, plasma TV's do buzz. But mine doesn't buzz that much. I could definitely hear it every morning when I powered up over the last week+ to start up the break-in disc. And it can be faintly heard in my seating position, about nine feet away dead onbut only if there is no background noise. As a matter of full disclosure, I do ensure the set is in standby when I listen to classical musicas opposed to keeping it on to navigate my receiver's GUI as I did with my old set. But so far the buzz hasn't been a distraction at all while watching TV or movies. YMMV on this due to your ears, room acoustics, seating position, the position of Sirius in the house of Aquarius, and perhaps your set.

Pixels. Still no dead pixels! Hooray! In addition to the few stuck ones that I initially reported that went away almost instantly, I have occasionally noted a pixel or two get stuckbut only when I'm very close to the screen, and it almost always goes away quickly.

Glare. Surprisingly okay. I was bracing for this to be an issue. But the coating does a pretty good job. Last night, I was watching baseball, and my wife and I each had our end table lamps oneach about nine feet away from the screen. There was a small amount of glare on the screen, if you looked for it. But I'll tell you what is reflectivethe bezel. Because of our symmetrical set up, about half of the reflection of each lamp fell on the screen and about half on the bezel. The reflection on the screen was dim and acceptable. But the reflection on the bezel was something else! In fact, the bezel is so reflective, that the inside edges can reflect the image on the screen! This doesn't bother me (it's even somewhat cool), but it is noticeable.

Color. This one really terrified me. The possibility of having colors that were off somehow almost scared me into spending the extra $ for the Elite. But I'm glad I resisted. I watch moves in movie and broadcast TV (read: sports) in optimal. More on this later. But in neither mode did I find the colors to be a problem. I have not spent significant time around reference-quality material, so some might accuse me of being so ignorant that my opinion doesn't matter. But I do like watching TV and movies, and I am definitely a picky person in general. With movies, I can't claim that I'm seeing what the director intendedbut it certainly looked good to me. Really good, even with scenes with which I am very familiar. With TV, I cheated a little before my break-in period was over to watch parts of game six of the NBA finals and a few Red Sox home games. I didn't have any complaints about the Celtics' uniforms or the color of the Green Monster. And I am familiar with how both should look. If I shut my eyes and did some mental-gymnastics A/B testing, I could convince myself that there was a little bit of a difference. But it wasn't worth the effort. Yesterday, I watched all or part of three baseball games in HD. Now, I can't swear to you that the grass was the same shade of green as it was in real life. But all of the fields' were within the possible range of green for real grass. I'm not going to deny that the color over-saturation exists; I don't claim to be an expert in such things and I believe those who say that it's present. And, again paying real close attention, I can sort of see that there may be a little more pop to bright greens. But it doesn't bother me and I only notice it if I think about it. And look at it this way XX20 ownersthe grass will always be greener on our side of the fence.

The lack of settings generally. It is definitely weird to have fewer settings to play with than on almost any other piece of equipment I own. Really weird. But once I got over that, it was a non-issue. IMO, Pioneer did a really great job implementing a set of modes that can be almost everything to almost all people. Remember, most people out there think that gamma is something that only causes issues for Bruce Banner.

SubArctic,
Very nice & enjoyable review...you have a talent for words!

On the colors...my biggest pet peeve with any panel is skin tones.
If the panel can't do skin tones accurately...forget about it!

What's your take on the 9G's ability to display accurate skin tones?

Pete

"I find movie mode too dark, so being relegated that one setting that I don't prefer doesn't help matters. Raising the brightness too high produces a wash-out effect (I followed D-nice's settings and worked from there). Perhaps I lack the expertise to make it work."

It is a little bit irritating that brigtness level has relatively large "steps" when i tried to calibrate. Something in between those steps would had been perfect.

My hopes go to the service menu if there is one. Usually there are more "steps" for a finer adjustement.

Thank you.


Thanks for reminding me about this. I meant to talk about skin tones in my post this morning, but it slipped my mind.

Skin tone representation was something that worried me when I made the decision to go with the 5020. But everything turned out OK, as far as I'm concerned. My take is similar to my thoughts on the green grass of the baseball diamonds--it may be that I'm not seeing an exact representation, but what I'm seeing is within the realm of reality and everything appears to be properly represented.

With Move Mode (D-Nice Reference Settings) Watching DVDs. The first movie we watched from start to finish uninterrupted (i.e. without my constantly interrupting it to change my setup and replay scenes) was The Queen. All of the skin tones appeared accurate. In particular, I found the distinction between the paleness of the Queen and the look of Tony Blair to be quite excellent.

With Optimum Mode Watching Live Sports. Again, looked really good. Last night, one of the Houston Astro's pitchers looked a little too red in the face. Freaked me out. But, after comparing him to other players on the field and the managers in the dugout, I came to the conclusion that he just had a sunburn. Seriously.

It would not shock me if people with an Elite--and the experience to a) calibrate it properly and b) tell the difference--might find things slightly off. But it can't possibly be by much. The look is nothing like the funkiness I've seen watching some LCDs.

I think you'll be fine. Have you tried "Optimum" or the settings D-Nice recommended for "Standard?" Based on my experience, the lighting in the room has to be very low to get the most out of "Movie." If there's too much ambient light, it won't look right--which is why I keep it on "Optimum" when I'm watching most broadcast TV. Film based material will look better, IMO, with "Movie"--when it's dim. But it has to be dim.

There's no reason that your 6020 shouldn't be able to outperform your friend's 6010. Unless perhaps he's made service menu corrections, and even then--as I read D-Nice's review--he'd only have a very slight advantage on you with the colors.

It is frustrating to have to deal with the preset modes as a baseline. But I do think that everything will be alright if you look at each preset mode as a distinctly different starting point (color, gamma, grayscale...) from which to make minor tweaks to the permissible settings (although you can't really change anything if you choose "Optimum").

".....and my wife and I each had our end table lamps on—each about nine feet away from the screen."

Thought about bias back lighting??? Just installed a Cinema Quest Standard light and so far is working great (if you are not trying to read while watching movies or TV...).

I have, and I might go that route when we wall mount, which is probably in the cards at some point in the future. The lamps were on not for the picture, but for us--we usually multitask while watching sports unless it's a major event. And inter-league play does not qualify.

When watching movies (or sometimes TV dramas), the lights all go out and all is well. A little bit of light seeps through our blinds to the right of the screen and I typically will turn on the hall light well to the screen's left.

SubArtic - Thx for review. Like you, I am just beginning to use the 6020 following 150 hrs of break in. The picture quality and black levels are great. For my unit - the buzz is unacceptable and thinking of having Pioneer visit. When watching movies on Energy Save Off or Mode 1 - the buzz is truly annoying when voice dims or their is some silence on picture. I have the television on a stand in entertainment wall cabinet - and sitting about 10 ft away. The only way to get the buzz to disappear is put in energy save mode 2 - which I imagine is killing the brightness of the panel compared to energy save off. I also have not been able to tweak settings a ton - and using D-Nice's settings for movies and Optimum for other.

My other pet peeve with this expensive unit is the side bars. I really don't like watching 4:3 ratio television with grey side bars. Why would they not be black or adjustable to black? I am still experimenting with the settings - such as light room sensor, auto picture sizing, etc. but do hope that we can get to the service menu to adjust some of these items which should be adjustable given the price of this set.

Trics,
It sounds like you have the auto side mask detection on. Turn it off and you should get the black bars back (page 59 of the manual)

The reason for the gray side bars is to help prevent image retention. If you watch lots of 4:3 material (normally TV shows with bright pictures), then you're going to have image retention because the pixels in the black bars aren't going to be active for all that time. Gray averages out the pixels so there is less chance of IR.

Personally, I'm not much of an OAR nut with 4:3 material and just choose to have auto-smart stretch on for those shows.

Regarding the EA DVD and my 6020:

When I follow D-Nice's break-in settings, i.e., setting picture to "Full," I get black bars on the top and the bottom. I assume that should not be so; looking at pics of other sets when the DVD is being run, there aren't any black bars.

Any thoughts on why I have black bars when running the same DVD as everyone else on the "Full" mode?

Trics -- are you able to notice a difference in the brightess with power mode 2? i have the same problem with you; horrible, horrible buzz on power saver "off." However, I can't tell the difference in the picture between mode 2 and off. Is there a visible difference in your case? When you're on the Power Save menu screen and you toggle between options, does the brightess of the picture in the preview screen change at all?

Here's my setup. The speakers are Klipsch RF-82 with a tiny SC-1 center that will be replaced with the RC-64 very soon.

I LOVE the stand. It was exactly what I was looking for and I picked it up for a song. To make room for the RC-64, I'm going to move the Dish PVR since it doesn't need IR and merge the DVD and VCR to a single device. On the bottom shelf will be the Sony AVR, the DVD/VCR, and the PS3.

Your brightness setting seems to be very to high on the photo.

Are you sure there is a way to get rid of the grey sidebars???
I have tried everything and can't get them to go away when watching 4:3.

Luckily, I have Comcast HD.
And there is a feature with My DVR box that makes them black.
I don't think I could stand the grey sidebars.

Nope. It's on movie mode with D-nice's ref. settings. There is a reflection of my dinning room window though.

Chad, I was able to make the side bars black. Just turn off the side bar auto-sensing thingy. My wife watches a lot of 4:3 TV shows and I was concerned about IR, so I set the auto-sensing to auto-stretch when it sensed side bars.

I think he is referring to the same solution you used. If you turn the side-mask detection off, you will have black sidebars, if your cable box outputs it like that. If your box is outputting straight 4:3, without adding its own sidebars, then you would probably have the grey bars from the TV.

Thanks. I did have it on - and turned it off. However, I still get a dark gray side bar at times. I need to re-read the manual...and see why. I checked the Directv box - and it shows black.

Powermode 2 DOES eliminate the buzz - but Mode 1 and Off is about the same annoying loud. I really do not want to compromise the brightness and use mode 2 all the time - defeats the point of a $4200 television.

Very prevalent watching television or movies when there is not a lot of speaking or noise- to point where it overpowers the main subtle program audio. I am sitting on a couch about 10 feet away -at the same height as the 6020 which is on a stand.

Ok don't shoot me because this is a owners thread. This week a 6020 will be made available to me for $4200, I know that's another thing that I'm not allowed to do ( mention price )......but with all the complaints about buzzing the lack of adjustment controls, now knowing all of this would you suggest waiting for the 58pz800. So far a lot of people rave about the TV, the accuracy of the THX mode, the whites, brightness. I don't want to wait till fall when the Panasonic will be released. I have yet to see this years model of the Pioneer, but last years is such a rich looking picture. Both Panasonic and Pioneer have great plasma TV's, but now knowing what you know and seeing what you have seen, and herd what you have herd, what would you do now?
Thanks for your help, the knowledge of the AVS members is the best