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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 141

post #4201 of 14721
10/21/08 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smolstre View Post

Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by dful4d
i have always enjoyed my 6020, but something about it just seemed a little off. The blacks are amazing and the picture is very nice, but it just seemed a little off. I tried to get adjusted to movie mode, thinking that maybe my previous viewing was the problem. Maybe i should have gotten the elite?

Maybe i was the problem?

Well, after some calibration help from d-nice (full calibration coming soon), i am completely in love with my 6020. Flesh tones finally look accurate (or close enough that it does not bother me.) the dim picture of the "stock" movie mode has been upgraded to a natural looking picture with much more pop. I had previously been substituting sharpness to enhance movie mode, but now i am able to back it almost all the way down. I am really happy with my 6020 now and i am glad i was able to save the money by not springing for the elite.

If you find movie mode a little dim, i highly recommend getting your set calibrated, or at least purchase controlcal and some inexpensive calibration equipment for yourself. The 6020 can produce the picture you want. Trust me, you are not the problem

+1

Thanks to ControlCal, D-Nice and AVS it appears that more and more users are getting these Kuro NE displays calibrated. David shared with me that he's personally done 15 of them already with excellent results. The only caveat being that it is a colorspace 1 calibration resulting in a tad extra color saturation. David also averages that down just a bit resulting in a near perfect calibration.

Last night my set became #16 I guess. We calibrated Movie and Standard but I settled on the Movie Mode calibration. As to the results, I really did not expect too much since I felt the picture was already excellent but I have to say having looked over various HD materal after the calibration, WOW.

Lawrence of Arabia happened to be on last night after calibration. Amazing. Skin tones are spectacular and I thought it was already quite good with my adjustments. The grayscale really has a huge impact on skin tones esp. getting those low IRE ranges spot on.

I can already see a shade of improvement in shadow detail. As others have posted one obvious result is that the sense that the excellent movie mode is just a tad dim is completely gone.

I also ran thru the 2007 and 2008 Kuro blu-ray demo disks. Awesome. Blacks and Whites pop even better when I didn't think they could. All I can say is if the Elite's can do any better than this I can't imagine it.

Kudos to David Abrams who was patient and has a real enthusiasm for his work.
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post #4202 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

You know, I have been seeing a lot of reports of motion blur from Cable feeds lately from all technologies. Even 120HZ LCDs with FI engaged.

Wonder what the heck is going on?

That makes me feel better. I want to love my Kuro.... I also wonder about the 58 inch panasonics which I likely would have purchased if I could have actually waited....I just really wanted a TV so I sprung from the Kuro....

My sensitive eyes...ticks me right off
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post #4203 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

That makes me feel better. I want to love my Kuro.... I also wonder about the 58 inch panasonics which I likely would have purchased if I could have actually waited....I just really wanted a TV so I sprung from the Kuro....

My sensitive eyes...ticks me right off

is there a thread on it?

thanks

(want to know more so I can see it more)
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post #4204 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

That makes me feel better. I want to love my Kuro.... I also wonder about the 58 inch panasonics which I likely would have purchased if I could have actually waited....I just really wanted a TV so I sprung from the Kuro....

My sensitive eyes...ticks me right off

I suggest also checking out a few of the professional reviews of the Kuro models in the area of motion and image processing. One advantage of those reviews is that while they are subjective of course they often run a few objective tests on processing. The processing of the Non-Elite is essentially the same as it is on the Elite models so check out reviews for either model.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...tag=prod.txt.1
Quote:


Produces the deepest shade of black of any big-screen display we've tested; accurate color decoding; dejudder processing option; 72Hz mode for 1080p/24 sources works well; superb antireflective screen;

Keep in mind that some motion artifacts and film judder (not 3/2) are inherent to the source material and not removed by any display. Some attempts to remove produces other problems, e.g. Smooth mode.
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post #4205 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:26am
Pulled the trigger and purchased the 5020! It arrived last week, and the break-in will be complete today (150+ hours). Fortunately no buzz and no stuck pixels! I did "cheat" a little bit this weekend to watch some of the football/baseball games, and I must say the picture is stunning!

Now I do have a couple of questions, that may end up being more related to my Time Warner Cable HD-DVR box. The only issues that I have come across are:

1. I seem to be having difficulties programming my Cable remote, to control the on/off power and volume of the TV. Never had a problem with previous TVs. After I enter in the Pioneer listed codes, nothing happens to the cable remote. I still have to turn the TV on and off, and the volume up and down with the Pioneer remote... then change the channel with my cable remote. Has anyone else had a problem programming their cable remote with this tv? Not looking for it to be a Universal Harmony remote, but would be nice if the cable remote could control the power and volume.

2. I am using a 10 ft Monoprice HDMI cable from my TV to my HD-DVR cable box. Switching from one channel to another gives me a "pfffff" sound followed by some wild colors and pixelation... before displaying the selected channel. I assume it is some sort of HDCP handshake going on, but it is a little more intrusive than I thought it would be (2+ seconds). Does everyone else get this for switching between Cable channels over HDMI? I might switch to RGB + audio cables if I can't figure this out, but it would be kind of annoying to not be able to take advantage of the HDMI cable.

3. Last night while I was watching, the sound would go out for about 1 second every 20 seconds. It did this on every channel! I put in a DVD (component cable input), and confirmed that the volume was fine there. After turning the TV on and off and the cable box on and off... the sound dropping on cable channels eventually went away (but I couldn't directly link the fix to my turning the power off of either of the two boxes). Has anyone had this sound dropping issue with their cable channels?

Maybe it's just the cable box, or maybe it is my hdmi connection... don't know. Any suggestions?
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post #4206 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Thanks to ControlCal, D-Nice and AVS it appears that more and more users are getting these Kuro NE displays calibrated. David shared with me that he's personally done 15 of them already with excellent results.

Kudos to David Abrams who was patient and has a real enthusiasm for his work.

Thanks for the Report..
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post #4207 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by itguycincinnati View Post

Pulled the trigger and purchased the 5020! It arrived last week, and the break-in will be complete today (150+ hours). Fortunately no buzz and no stuck pixels! I did "cheat" a little bit this weekend to watch some of the football/baseball games, and I must say the picture is stunning!

Now I do have a couple of questions, that may end up being more related to my Time Warner Cable HD-DVR box. The only issues that I have come across are:

1. I seem to be having difficulties programming my Cable remote, to control the on/off power and volume of the TV. Never had a problem with previous TVs. After I enter in the Pioneer listed codes, nothing happens to the cable remote. I still have to turn the TV on and off, and the volume up and down with the Pioneer remote... then change the channel with my cable remote. Has anyone else had a problem programming their cable remote with this tv? Not looking for it to be a Universal Harmony remote, but would be nice if the cable remote could control the power and volume.

2. I am using a 10 ft Monoprice HDMI cable from my TV to my HD-DVR cable box. Switching from one channel to another gives me a "pfffff" sound followed by some wild colors and pixelation... before displaying the selected channel. I assume it is some sort of HDCP handshake going on, but it is a little more intrusive than I thought it would be (2+ seconds). Does everyone else get this for switching between Cable channels over HDMI? I might switch to RGB + audio cables if I can't figure this out, but it would be kind of annoying to not be able to take advantage of the HDMI cable.

3. Last night while I was watching, the sound would go out for about 1 second every 20 seconds. It did this on every channel! I put in a DVD (component cable input), and confirmed that the volume was fine there. After turning the TV on and off and the cable box on and off... the sound dropping on cable channels eventually went away (but I couldn't directly link the fix to my turning the power off of either of the two boxes). Has anyone had this sound dropping issue with their cable channels?

Maybe it's just the cable box, or maybe it is my hdmi connection... don't know. Any suggestions?

If the sound was fine with a component cable then it does sound like either an HDMI handshake issue or it is just the cable. If you have a spare I would give it a shot and see if that helps.
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post #4208 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Thanks to ControlCal, D-Nice and AVS it appears that more and more users are getting these Kuro NE displays calibrated. David shared with me that he's personally done 15 of them already with excellent results. The only caveat being that it is a colorspace 1 calibration resulting in a tad extra color saturation. David also averages that down just a bit resulting in a near perfect calibration.

Last night my set became #16 I guess. We calibrated Movie and Standard but I settled on the Movie Mode calibration. As to the results, I really did not expect too much since I felt the picture was already excellent but I have to say having looked over various HD materal after the calibration, WOW.

Lawrence of Arabia happened to be on last night after calibration. Amazing. Skin tones are spectacular and I thought it was already quite good with my adjustments. The grayscale really has a huge impact on skin tones esp. getting those low IRE ranges spot on.

I can already see a shade of improvement in shadow detail. As others have posted one obvious result is that the sense that the excellent movie mode is just a tad dim is completely gone.

I also ran thru the 2007 and 2008 Kuro blu-ray demo disks. Awesome. Blacks and Whites pop even better when I didn't think they could. All I can say is if the Elite's can do any better than this I can't imagine it.

Kudos to David Abrams who was patient and has a real enthusiasm for his work.


That is great to hear! Just some simple adjustment of the Red High and Blue High values in the service menu has made a world of a difference for me. Spending $25 on ControlCal to perfect a $4000 tv is a no-brainer! I am really looking forward to a full calibration from D-Nice.
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post #4209 of 14721
10/21/08 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFul4d View Post

That is great to hear! Just some simple adjustment of the Red High and Blue High values in the service menu has made a world of a difference for me. Spending $25 on ControlCal to perfect a $4000 tv is a no-brainer! I am really looking forward to a full calibration from D-Nice.

u used the settings i gave you w/o a meter?
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post #4210 of 14721
10/21/08 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by itguycincinnati View Post

Pulled the trigger and purchased the 5020! It arrived last week, and the break-in will be complete today (150+ hours). Fortunately no buzz and no stuck pixels! I did "cheat" a little bit this weekend to watch some of the football/baseball games, and I must say the picture is stunning!

Now I do have a couple of questions, that may end up being more related to my Time Warner Cable HD-DVR box. The only issues that I have come across are:

1. I seem to be having difficulties programming my Cable remote, to control the on/off power and volume of the TV. Never had a problem with previous TVs. After I enter in the Pioneer listed codes, nothing happens to the cable remote. I still have to turn the TV on and off, and the volume up and down with the Pioneer remote... then change the channel with my cable remote. Has anyone else had a problem programming their cable remote with this tv? Not looking for it to be a Universal Harmony remote, but would be nice if the cable remote could control the power and volume.

2. I am using a 10 ft Monoprice HDMI cable from my TV to my HD-DVR cable box. Switching from one channel to another gives me a "pfffff" sound followed by some wild colors and pixelation... before displaying the selected channel. I assume it is some sort of HDCP handshake going on, but it is a little more intrusive than I thought it would be (2+ seconds). Does everyone else get this for switching between Cable channels over HDMI? I might switch to RGB + audio cables if I can't figure this out, but it would be kind of annoying to not be able to take advantage of the HDMI cable.

3. Last night while I was watching, the sound would go out for about 1 second every 20 seconds. It did this on every channel! I put in a DVD (component cable input), and confirmed that the volume was fine there. After turning the TV on and off and the cable box on and off... the sound dropping on cable channels eventually went away (but I couldn't directly link the fix to my turning the power off of either of the two boxes). Has anyone had this sound dropping issue with their cable channels?

Maybe it's just the cable box, or maybe it is my hdmi connection... don't know. Any suggestions?

I would guess #2 is the resolution changing between channels and your TV is having to resync. Ig you hate it most cable boxes allow you to force the resolution to one type, i.e. 1080i, and that should remove it. Most people prefer native output since forcing to 1080i would lose half the frames in 720p or forcing to 720p would lose resolution/allow use your DVR deinterlacer.
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post #4211 of 14721
10/21/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

I would guess #2 is the resolution changing between channels and your TV is having to resync. Ig you hate it most cable boxes allow you to force the resolution to one type, i.e. 1080i, and that should remove it. Most people prefer native output since forcing to 1080i would lose half the frames in 720p or forcing to 720p would lose resolution/allow use your DVR deinterlacer.

720p also doesnt allow the use of Dot by Dot screen size. just wanted to throw that in.
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post #4212 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman4 View Post

Having a Great HDTV requires more control & setting ability than either of these sets offer. While the Panny can be Calibrated, the 6020 can NOT be Calibrated other than the Grays. To me I want the ability to be able to set a TV to my personal preferences not the manufacturer. I'm sure most people would agree. Neither of these TV's live up to what they should do even though they are good TV's

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

i would think most of the missing settings are those only pros would have a use for. as for me contrast/brightness/color/tint/sharpness plus the RGB-High/Low for grayscales are plenty.

Yes, of course. It was just as obvious to me. I disagree that "most people" would agree that paying $1,000 to $1,500 extra for the more sophisticated controls the Pioneer Elite provides, and plus or minus another $500 for professional calibration is money well spent. In my opinion, the 6020 offers ample adjustments to make most users extremely happy. As noted in my earlier post, I am extremely happy and have had a lot of experience with HDTV. Thus, prospective buyers would be well advised to make their own calculation on the issue.
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post #4213 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Yes, of course. It was just as obvious to me. I disagree that "most people" would agree that paying $1,000 to $1,500 extra for the more sophisticated controls the Pioneer Elite provides, and plus or minus another $500 for professional calibration is money well spent. In my opinion, the 6020 offers ample adjustments to make most users extremely happy. As noted in my earlier post, I am extremely happy and have had a lot of experience with HDTV. Thus, prospective buyers would be well advised to make their own calculation on the issue.

I think you should be able to push for 3 or less.
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post #4214 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

I think you should be able to push for 3 or less.

3 or less for what?
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post #4215 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexInvision View Post

3 or less for what?

I think, but am not sure, that he meant you could negotiate for $300 for a professional calibration if you tried real hard.
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post #4216 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

I think you should be able to push for 3 or less.

not including traveling?
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post #4217 of 14721
10/21/08 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Kudos to David Abrams who was patient and has a real enthusiasm for his work.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Page#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.
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post #4218 of 14721
10/21/08 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I think, but am not sure, that he meant you could negotiate for $300 for a professional calibration if you tried real hard.

Thanks. I was just a little confused.
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post #4219 of 14721
10/21/08 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

u used the settings i gave you w/o a meter?

No, I used different settings that someone else gave me.
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post #4220 of 14721
10/21/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFul4d View Post

No, I used different settings that someone else gave me.

haha, my numbers not good enough for you?
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post #4221 of 14721
10/21/08 at 2:41pm
I've decided to go with the 5020 from Plasma Concepts within a week after my next paycheck. I'm really excited and a little nervous... but mostly excited.

Something I don't hear a lot of people talk about is the networking capability. How many of you are using it and how well does it work?

I currently stream mp3s, streaming internet audio and video from my computer to my xbox360 to my tv. I've used Media Player 11 but now I'm using TVersity for it's internet audio streaming capabilities. Will a networked 5020 be a viable option for doing this or will I need to stick to the xbox360? I saw some of the supported video codecs for the tv and didn't notice any divx capabilities like the xbox has.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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post #4222 of 14721
10/21/08 at 7:06pm
Why is it that no one has yet to post their offsets for their calibrated 6020?
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post #4223 of 14721
10/21/08 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

haha, my numbers not good enough for you?

I never saw your numbers. What were they and does the serial number of your panel begin with HEPM?
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post #4224 of 14721
10/21/08 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFul4d View Post

I never saw your numbers. What were they and does the serial number of your panel begin with HEPM?

oops, that was someone else that requested my RGB settings. my panel is HGPM.
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post #4225 of 14721
10/21/08 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

not including traveling?

No travel fee when you get 2 sets calibrated.
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post #4226 of 14721
10/21/08 at 11:57pm
Recently got a 5020 from a forum sponsor. I have it hooked to Tivo HD and an Xbox 360. Great image, and have been running the break in off of USB key. Definitely noticed the full color screens have become more uniform. Pretty cool to see that change over the first few days.

Anyway, I read on here about phosphor lag and green ghosting and what not, and I am definitely experiencing this. I'm not sure if I'm just more sensitive to this and that I'll get used to it, or if this is something being extra goofy with the set. It reminds me a lot of the rainbow effect with a single chip DLP setup. I notice this mostly when my eye jumps around between parts of a scene, or just looking back and forth between the set and the room, mostly noticible on any white or bright parts. Or when there is anything going from bright to dark, like moving text or whatever.

A simple way to show this, again, at least to my eye, is to do a simple test (one that's more fun and interesting with a DLP with a color wheel, but anyway). Basically hold the screen on anything with a bright white portion. Doesn't have to be the whole screen. Just some bright white section. Now look at that section, close one eye, and then start waving your hand quickly back and forth with your fingers slightly separated in front of your eye. What you notice is that the pure white breaks into a white, a yellow-green, and a purple. You could surely do the same thing with a fan running in place of your hand.

Obviously this test case itself doesn't matter since no-one looks through a waving hand at the TV, but clearly shows, at least on my set, an effect that is pretty clear to my eyes as I watch regular TV. I haven't played many games yet, but it sounds like it will become even more pronounced there.

I guess I'll just try to get used to it. I recall when I had a 100" DLP front projector setup, the rainbow effect got less noticeable over time. I honestly think I just naturally trained myself to move my eyes around the screen less quickly. We'll see if this is the same story.

I guess it's just when you drop some coin on one of the best TV's ever, you want it all...
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post #4227 of 14721
10/22/08 at 7:09am
Wonder if i can get your guys opinion, I have comcast cable and a 5020 i bought in june.

In the last few weeks when switching from hd broadcast to non high def the non high def colors are washed out. almost near black and white. If i turn off the set and cable box and turn back on the non high def will look normal.

Just to test i waited for it to happen again. And this time i kept the tv powered on and just turned off the cable box and when i turned the cable box back on the non high channel was still washed out. Then i left the cable box on and turned the t v off and on and it was fine....

I can't believe this is the t v causing this and hoping its the cable box some how not displaying the signal correct.... Any thoughts?
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post #4228 of 14721
10/22/08 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

I suggest also checking out a few of the professional reviews of the Kuro models in the area of motion and image processing. One advantage of those reviews is that while they are subjective of course they often run a few objective tests on processing. The processing of the Non-Elite is essentially the same as it is on the Elite models so check out reviews for either model.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...tag=prod.txt.1


Keep in mind that some motion artifacts and film judder (not 3/2) are inherent to the source material and not removed by any display. Some attempts to remove produces other problems, e.g. Smooth mode.


Okay now I have another question. I continue to see some blurring. Last night, I clicked on options and then changed video to PC to see the HZ. What I found interesting is you could still see the TV when changed to PC. As a matter of fact, there was no blurring (or very very very little) and the picture looked great. Does this make any sense? Should you be able to see the TV when PC is engaged. Is this okay for the TV? Should it be clearer on PC than TV mode?? Is it possible the processer is processing PC at 60hz but not on TV mode and that is why it is choppy at times? Does anyone have any PQ settings for PC mode? I noticed there is no dot by dot choice or Auto choice while in PC mode --- lacks even more controls but the picture was very very good. So strange....
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post #4229 of 14721
10/22/08 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Okay now I have another question. I continue to see some blurring. Last night, I clicked on options and then changed video to PC to see the HZ. What I found interesting is you could still see the TV when changed to PC. As a matter of fact, there was no blurring (or very very very little) and the picture looked great. Does this make any sense? Should you be able to see the TV when PC is engaged. Is this okay for the TV? Should it be clearer on PC than TV mode?? Is it possible the processer is processing PC at 60hz but not on TV mode and that is why it is choppy at times? Does anyone have any PQ settings for PC mode? I noticed there is no dot by dot choice or Auto choice while in PC mode --- lacks even more controls but the picture was very very good. So strange....

think you also miss out on Pure Cinema modes when in PC mode.
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post #4230 of 14721
10/22/08 at 8:23am
Has anyone done calibration from pc when pioneer is set to "PC"? It should be a cleaner signal but I find it really colourful, and far too cool colour temp.
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