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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 142

post #4231 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Okay now I have another question. I continue to see some blurring. Last night, I clicked on options and then changed video to PC to see the HZ. What I found interesting is you could still see the TV when changed to PC. As a matter of fact, there was no blurring (or very very very little) and the picture looked great. Does this make any sense? Should you be able to see the TV when PC is engaged. Is this okay for the TV? Should it be clearer on PC than TV mode?? Is it possible the processer is processing PC at 60hz but not on TV mode and that is why it is choppy at times? Does anyone have any PQ settings for PC mode? I noticed there is no dot by dot choice or Auto choice while in PC mode --- lacks even more controls but the picture was very very good. So strange....

think PC then uses RGB instead of YUV for HDMI. No dot-by-dot because it is always dot-by-dot because you dont want overscan for a PC
post #4232 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaumSquad View Post

Recently got a 5020 from a forum sponsor. I have it hooked to Tivo HD and an Xbox 360. Great image, and have been running the break in off of USB key. Definitely noticed the full color screens have become more uniform. Pretty cool to see that change over the first few days.

Anyway, I read on here about phosphor lag and green ghosting and what not, and I am definitely experiencing this. I'm not sure if I'm just more sensitive to this and that I'll get used to it, or if this is something being extra goofy with the set. It reminds me a lot of the rainbow effect with a single chip DLP setup. I notice this mostly when my eye jumps around between parts of a scene, or just looking back and forth between the set and the room, mostly noticible on any white or bright parts. Or when there is anything going from bright to dark, like moving text or whatever.

A simple way to show this, again, at least to my eye, is to do a simple test (one that's more fun and interesting with a DLP with a color wheel, but anyway). Basically hold the screen on anything with a bright white portion. Doesn't have to be the whole screen. Just some bright white section. Now look at that section, close one eye, and then start waving your hand quickly back and forth with your fingers slightly separated in front of your eye. What you notice is that the pure white breaks into a white, a yellow-green, and a purple. You could surely do the same thing with a fan running in place of your hand.

Obviously this test case itself doesn't matter since no-one looks through a waving hand at the TV, but clearly shows, at least on my set, an effect that is pretty clear to my eyes as I watch regular TV. I haven't played many games yet, but it sounds like it will become even more pronounced there.

I guess I'll just try to get used to it. I recall when I had a 100" DLP front projector setup, the rainbow effect got less noticeable over time. I honestly think I just naturally trained myself to move my eyes around the screen less quickly. We'll see if this is the same story.

I guess it's just when you drop some coin on one of the best TV's ever, you want it all...

I see them too, see below thread. I am getting used to them.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=603995

Thread is a bit confusing because it seems like half the people are complaining about phosphor lag not rainbows.
post #4233 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Okay now I have another question. I continue to see some blurring. Last night, I clicked on options and then changed video to PC to see the HZ. What I found interesting is you could still see the TV when changed to PC.

As a matter of fact, there was no blurring (or very very very little) and the picture looked great. Does this make any sense? Should you be able to see the TV when PC is engaged. Is this okay for the TV? Should it be clearer on PC than TV mode?? Is it possible the processer is processing PC at 60hz but not on TV mode and that is why it is choppy at times? Does anyone have any PQ settings for PC mode? I noticed there is no dot by dot choice or Auto choice while in PC mode --- lacks even more controls but the picture was very very good. So strange....

What's your source device & signal? Connected via HDMI?

PC mode is geared to take an RGB signal in directly instead of a Video signal (which then has to be converted to RGB).
So if you're passing an RGB signal perhaps there's an advantage.
post #4234 of 14945
Quote:


I can't believe this is the t v causing this and hoping its the cable box some how not displaying the signal correct.... Any thoughts?

If you connected via HDMI from your cable box it could be losing Synch and not resetting till you cycle off/on. You could try just switching hdmi input and switching back or connecting via component.
post #4235 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

What's your source device & signal? Connected via HDMI?

PC mode is geared to take an RGB signal in directly instead of a Video signal (which then has to be converted to RGB).
So if you're passing an RGB signal perhaps there's an advantage.

I am not sure how one knows what they passing. I am using HDMI but will try component. I actually found on my pansonic that component was better but that was a couple of years ago. I may go purchase a blue ray player to see how that reacts. Does a PC source also receive 1080P?
post #4236 of 14945
Will the Peerless ST660 mount fit the 6020? Are there any other mounts that work for folks? I need a tilting mount.
post #4237 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvanaman View Post

Will the Peerless ST660 mount fit the 6020? Are there any other mounts that work for folks? I need a tilting mount.

For Peerless you would need the ST670
post #4238 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvanaman View Post

Will the Peerless ST660 mount fit the 6020? Are there any other mounts that work for folks? I need a tilting mount.

Take a look at Chief, the best selling mounts out there
http://www.chiefmfg.com/mount_search...roductTypeID=1
post #4239 of 14945
Thanks both of you!

Would the correct mount for chief be the PLP16? Pluses and minuses of the two mounts? Any other good options?
post #4240 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvanaman View Post

Thanks both of you!

Would the correct mount for chief be the PLP16? Pluses and minuses of the two mounts? Any other good options?

All the ones listed for tilt would work there it just depends on what you want for features. Peerless is a good brand but Chief is the biggest manufacturer of mounts out there
post #4241 of 14945
will the monprice 4114 mount work with either the 5020 or 6020 with no speaker??

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


fiddlyD
post #4242 of 14945
I know some of the generic mounts do not work for 6020 so I would check directly with them.
post #4243 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

Take a look at Chief, the best selling mounts out there
http://www.chiefmfg.com/mount_search...roductTypeID=1

Ha, now you like the chief mounts eh? I kept mentioning them to you in prior posts.

I tried to look at the site and could not find the depth in inches fully flush. Which mount is more minimal and what depth for a 60"?

I have my partner wanting the 60 and will be calling you about this.

Paul
post #4244 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

Ha, now you like the chief mounts eh? I kept mentioning them to you in prior posts.

I tried to look at the site and could not find the depth in inches fully flush. Which mount is more minimal and what depth for a 60"?

I have my partner wanting the 60 and will be calling you about this.

Paul

lol you got me , Chief reached out and had me go direct for the store and online
Are you talking tilt or flat?
post #4245 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

lol you got me , Chief reached out and had me go direct for the store and online
Are you talking tilt or flat?

Yeah Gotcha,

The full swing arm. There seems to be three or four and its hard to tell the differences.

He wants it flush.

Paul
post #4246 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

Yeah Gotcha,

The full swing arm. There seems to be three or four and its hard to tell the differences.

He wants it flush.

Paul

The depth is 5.54" and its flush, PIWRFUB is the one go with. PM or call me and we can go over it so we dont clog up the thread, I can get confused myself sometimes with these, but we have support I am installing a demo next week so I can take a pic for you as well but its for a 50 incher, you will get an idea.
post #4247 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOMAIN64 View Post

Yeah Gotcha,

The full swing arm. There seems to be three or four and its hard to tell the differences.

He wants it flush.

Paul


Also take a look at Omni Mounts and Sanus. Chief bought out Sanus so you will get the same quality but they have some different options for the articulating arms. Do beware with some of the mounts because of the mounting pateren on the back of the 60" Pioneer not all mounts will work with them. Pioneer did not use a VESA standard bolt hole pattern on the 60 so not all mounts will work. Do take a look at Omni though they have some really cool mounts they even have an electric articulating arm so you could move the unit from your seat with a remote :-)

Jamie (PlasmaBlondie)
Founder
Invision Displays
post #4248 of 14945
We have this unit mounted in our showroom if you would like a picture with a 60" mounted on it. The one thing I can say is that with 5 1/2 inches plus the 60" mounted to the unit it still has more thickness then some people want. If you would like to PM me I can send you some pics of what it looks like when we have mounted like this at some of our customers homes. This will help you get an idea of what it would look like in real life.

Jamie
Invision Displays


Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O View Post

The depth is 5.54" and its flush, PIWRFUB is the one go with. PM or call me and we can go over it so we dont clog up the thread, I can get confused myself sometimes with these, but we have support I am installing a demo next week so I can take a pic for you as well but its for a 50 incher, you will get an idea.
post #4249 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

What's your source device & signal? Connected via HDMI?

PC mode is geared to take an RGB signal in directly instead of a Video signal (which then has to be converted to RGB).
So if you're passing an RGB signal perhaps there's an advantage.

The forced Noise reduction in the video mode blurs text. PC mode is all processing turned off, it's noticeably clearer wth websites and computer use. IMHO this is a flaw in the NE Kuros and pretty shoddy for a $4000+ TV. Although I don't notice it killing detail with video one has to wonder if it does that to text what is their noise reduction doing to video.

So this TV has no video mode which passes an unprocessed signal. I knew the Noise reduction was forced on the video mode but never knew it would do THAT. Kuros are still great TVs however it's a shame that you can't use your PC with a proper grayscale.

Another minus for the NE and a plus for the elites
post #4250 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Okay now I have another question. I continue to see some blurring. Last night, I clicked on options and then changed video to PC to see the HZ. What I found interesting is you could still see the TV when changed to PC. As a matter of fact, there was no blurring (or very very very little) and the picture looked great. Does this make any sense? Should you be able to see the TV when PC is engaged. Is this okay for the TV? Should it be clearer on PC than TV mode?? Is it possible the processer is processing PC at 60hz but not on TV mode and that is why it is choppy at times? Does anyone have any PQ settings for PC mode? I noticed there is no dot by dot choice or Auto choice while in PC mode --- lacks even more controls but the picture was very very good. So strange....

If you mean motion looks better well make sure your 24p options are turned off in your BD/DVD gear because it will pass 24p even with PureCinema off. As for detail and clarity I think there's a good possibility noise reduction is killing detail on these TVs and will test this further.
post #4251 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

If you mean motion looks better well make sure your 24p options are turned off in your BD/DVD gear because it will pass 24p even with PureCinema off. As for detail and clarity I think there's a good possibility noise reduction is killing detail on these TVs and will test this further.

i'm actually not 100% it does. to be honest i think PureCinema is just very inconsistant. sometimes i notice a difference, sometimes i don't. on The Matrix, i tried flipping between Off and Advance during the credits and noticed less judder (still some) when PC was switched to Advance.
post #4252 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

I am not sure how one knows what they passing. I am using HDMI but will try component. I actually found on my pansonic that component was better but that was a couple of years ago. I may go purchase a blue ray player to see how that reacts. Does a PC source also receive 1080P?

You can check on your source device just depending on what options it offers. On the PS3 for instance it will display signal information on what it's passed.

On the Kuro you can switch from Video to PC mode and then hold down the display button.

It raises an interesting point. Why wouldn't this be a great mode to calibrate/make adjustments on?
  • The HDMI PC mode should bypass the color decoder if you set your device to pass a straight RGB signal. For instance you can set the PS3 to ouput RGB for your blu-ray.
  • The color options in PC mode offer a direct Red Green Blue adjustment.
  • The Picture size is DotByDot (or full).
  • It appears to pass the signal pretty much as is.
  • It saves it's own settings separate and offers an additional user memory.

What am I missing?
post #4253 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

Although I don't notice it killing detail with video one has to wonder if it does that to text what is their noise reduction doing to video.

If there were detail loss it should show up on calibration patterns designed for those adjustments. During my calibration for instance we were able lock in beautiful lines without ringing or frequency rolloff.

There are a lot of built-in features on displays with no visible affect but of course adjusters and purists usually like to turn them off anyway to be safe. There's no evidence of detail loss but your observation on text could be worth checking out. Are you setting your video card to pass a Video Level for video mode?
post #4254 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

i'm actually not 100% it does. to be honest i think PureCinema is just very inconsistant. sometimes i notice a difference, sometimes i don't. on The Matrix, i tried flipping between Off and Advance during the credits and noticed less judder (still some) when PC was switched to Advance.

The PureCinema modes depends on the displays ability to detect the film signal correctly. Advanced should do this best for film sources but apparently the other modes also detect it very well, even with PC:Off.

I believe D-Nice indicated that there are only a few rare cases where it may not detect 24fps.

Are you expecting to see a completely judderless film? Not all judder can be removed. In fact if you're a real "judder detective" you can see Judder in the Theater presentations. Film is not a perfect process for motion.
post #4255 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Anyone want a pioneer Kuro, still under warrenty for a great price? lol.....

post #4256 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

What's your source device & signal? Connected via HDMI?

PC mode is geared to take an RGB signal in directly instead of a Video signal (which then has to be converted to RGB).
So if you're passing an RGB signal perhaps there's an advantage.

Yes connected by HDMI but I am not sure what Bell express vu is passing? I do not see any information on this in the manual. This makes sense.
post #4257 of 14945
Don't use blue planet, it has a fault- blurs and shifts pixels. Not all the discs but on a couple if does. At least on DVD don't know about blu-ray.
post #4258 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

If there were detail loss it should show up on calibration patterns designed for those adjustments. During my calibration for instance we were able lock in beautiful lines without ringing or frequency rolloff.

There are a lot of built-in features on displays with no visible affect but of course adjusters and purists usually like to turn them off anyway to be safe. There's no evidence of detail loss but your observation on text could be worth checking out. Are you setting your video card to pass a Video Level for video mode?

This is all directly through the PS3. My PCs RAM took a nosedive so I've been browsing this way. I should have it back soon so I can test with my PCs video card.

Text seems to blur to various degrees depending on the color of the background/text. I do believe I've read about TV processing affecting text in similar ways on PC forums.
post #4259 of 14945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopinak View Post

Yes connected by HDMI but I am not sure what Bell express vu is passing? I do not see any information on this in the manual. This makes sense.

Bell ExpressVu at least on my 9200 passes limited RGB over the HDMI inputs. They also downscale all channels to 720P. You might want to set your PVR/Receiver to 720p instead of 1080i .
post #4260 of 14945
Just looking for a little more help/advice. After some much appreciated help from Rick and Andrmgic, I have decided to purchase the 5020. Due to gift card policy, I am tied into purchasing my TV through Big River. Since this forum is filled with experts who have owned many pioneers and flat panels I knew I would get an answer I could trust. I know at some point you just have to pull the trigger but, does anybody here think that prices will continue to drop, even past the already 38% off MSRP? Do you think they will reach a 50% price drop? I know no one here can predict the future, but for anybody who went through this with the 8thgens I would appreciate the help.

Thanks
Colin
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