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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 269

post #8041 of 14720
2/6/09 at 1:47am
Well this is very odd. Here where I live, on digital basic cable, that's without the Cox cable box, our PBS affiliate (LPB) and NBC affiliate were 27.5 and 33.1 on my TV. I just updated the firmware on my 5020, did the channel scan again, and now they are both in the 700's! What's up with that?? I don't even see how that's possible since the TV has the typical HDTV tuner that only goes up to...what is it....125 or 175 channels?! (I don't see it listed anywhere in the manual but I'm sure it's less than 200, correct?) I'm wondering if the stations changed channel #'s and when I did the scan I got the updated #'s and it deleted the old channel #'s, or if the firmware update was solely responsible for this. This is a PITA, just when I was getting used to the *logical #'s, now they make no sense at all. (*I say "logical" #'s because all of the other channels, and the two in question, were only decimal points away from their basic cable assigned #'s. Ch. 27 analog cable was 27.5 digital, the NBC affiliate was ch. 33 OTA, and the other local channels on DTV were the same as their OTA counterparts + a decimal place. So with all of them there was some since of "logic" in their numerical assignments. But seeing these two in the 700's makes absolutely no sense).
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post #8042 of 14720
2/6/09 at 1:54am
Does anyone know what this means? This is on page 25 section 2.5 of the 5020 manual:

"In order to watch both analog and digital broadcasts through your terrestrial antenna or cable connection, you must first connect the antenna cable to a splitter."

Why the heck do you need splitter? Where is the other cable line connected? There is only one RF input on this TV!
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post #8043 of 14720
2/6/09 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Its a sad thing when a Vizio has better color management than the Pioneer.

The backlash is that some people will just buy another brand.

I'd like to hear what Pioneer plans to do with the color management of the non elite model for the next model year.

Unless the 10gs are the holy grail of video that's probably what I'm going to be doing.

Even if they restore controls next year it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like 9g owners were guinea pigs to see how much they could take and still sell. Now that this generation of displays is nearing it's end they see they have to discount them big time to make them move and realized that they took away too much. Expect next year's displays to have all the previous controls and features like this year *never* happened.

It's weird because I love Pioneer for advancing display technology and the 5020/6020 are still good TVs.. but I HATE them for treating Pioneer (not elite) owners like peasants.
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post #8044 of 14720
2/6/09 at 5:55am
^^^^that would suck.

It seems to be becoming more of an issue not having these controls. Thats why i always repeated teh question if the 5010 was a better option for me. But now im stuck with the 5020 for a looooong time. i knew i should have waited cuz now amazon has the 5010 for lower than i got the 5020 for at the time. That stinks...how can you sell a tv? i feel like ive been raped
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post #8045 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:07am
I asked this before and no one ever replied: doesn't the 5010 also have dual tuners for PiP function?
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post #8046 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I asked this before and no one ever replied: doesn't the 5010 also have dual tuners for PiP function?

you asked the same question before??^^^

It just seems to me even though a year old the 5010 would have been a better choice for everyone in hear because of the color accuracy that can be made. I just regret not waiting a little longer to see if anymore 5010 were available since i did wait like 2 years to purchase anoter TV i should have waited another 2 months. I was so set on the 5020 cuz the reviews were excellent but now its like all the problems are beginning to leak out of everyone and it seems te adjustments are becoming a problem. Maybe just maybe we will get a FW update but i doubt it..that porlly wont hapen until the 10gs come out which will probally ave all the adjustments cuz of all the complaints in here, so if they do that then i dont see a reason for them not to make a FW for the 5020's. And if they do that you can prolly file a class action lawsuit for being completely ripped off.

I know i always talk about the 5010, tho the 5020 is really good, i feel like i would not even be writing in these forums if i had the 5010!! And the last thing i want to do is sell a TV on ebay or something for half the cost of what i bought for. plus i dont want the hassle so it looks like im stuck with the tv till i can pay it off. blloowwwws
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post #8047 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:29am
Give Vizio all the color management you want, the picture still sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Its a sad thing when a Vizio has better color management than the Pioneer.

The backlash is that some people will just buy another brand.

I'd like to hear what Pioneer plans to do with the color management of the non elite model for the next model year.
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post #8048 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

You deserve a refund on that.


Are cold temps and humidity a problem for this TV?

Cold temperatures and humidity are an issue for any TV or high end electrical appliance such as a computer. The manual will invariably tell you not to turn it on until it has reached room temperature. Any delivery person who tell you not to turn it on immediately is doing you a favour.
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post #8049 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

Unless the 10gs are the holy grail of video that's probably what I'm going to be doing.

Even if they restore controls next year it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like 9g owners were guinea pigs to see how much they could take and still sell. Now that this generation of displays is nearing it's end they see they have to discount them big time to make them move and realized that they took away too much. Expect next year's displays to have all the previous controls and features like this year *never* happened.

It's weird because I love Pioneer for advancing display technology and the 5020/6020 are still good TVs.. but I HATE them for treating Pioneer (not elite) owners like peasants.

Bottom line for me was that it kept me from buying Pioneer this year and next year a competitor may have something better.
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post #8050 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbm911 View Post

Taking delivery of the 5020 tomorrow to replace my aged 503CMX (20,000 hours with stuck green pixels after about 2 hours of watching due to heat: off to the basement rec room!).

What should I look for before I let the White Glove guys leave? Any quick test to best check for dead pixels? Anything else that others have found to be out of the box problems that I should quickly look for before I sign for the TV?


Thanks,

Steve

See what they will let you do. I try to open the box. Many will insist that you sign first. I had one let me plug it in. I think if you can get the box open and make sure the glass is intact you are in good shape. If not, you are probably fine too.

I had a 503CMX, be prepared to be blown away. After 20 minutes, you should be able to speak again

- Rich
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post #8051 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:40am
By the way, what does the firmware update on Pioneer's website fix on the 6020? Brother has a 6020.
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post #8052 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:41am
Thanks!! do you think it will matter if I use these without any controlcal tweaking?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KCinWhitby View Post

Damn you made me go check again. LOL. I wanted to run the Video Pattern anyways. Here are my HOCKEY SETTINGS. Keep in mind I used these after D-Nice offsets with ControlCal.

Contrast: 40
Brightness: 0
Color: +1
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15 (I may try -12 here for kicks)
Pure Cinema: Smooth
Text Opt: Off
Orbitor: Mode 2
Light Sensor: ON
Energy Save: OFF
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post #8053 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

Unless the 10gs are the holy grail of video that's probably what I'm going to be doing.

Even if they restore controls next year it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like 9g owners were guinea pigs to see how much they could take and still sell. Now that this generation of displays is nearing it's end they see they have to discount them big time to make them move and realized that they took away too much. Expect next year's displays to have all the previous controls and features like this year *never* happened.

It's weird because I love Pioneer for advancing display technology and the 5020/6020 are still good TVs.. but I HATE them for treating Pioneer (not elite) owners like peasants.

Amen. I am a bit pissed at the over-manipulation. It would not be that bad I find most of the mode garish. That said, if they have a 65 with 9G or better blacks, they probably get another sale from me.

Damn you Pioneer

- Rich

P.S. I hope they figure out how to have a unified TV tuning guide between analog and digital. Technology that has existed for 10 years. I mean 5.1 comes after 5. I would like to type in 5.1 without having to select the digital tuner.
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post #8054 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:49am
Dude I was the same way. These boards can really throw you for a loop because there are experts here who want absolute perfection. And perfection to them is way beyond what a normal tv viewer looks for.

i read about all these "issues" with this tv, but you know what? I've had mine for about a month now, and I think a lot of people on these threads are either insane or just picky beyond belief, because to me this is an AMAZING tv!!!

do yourself a favor and buy one!!!

Also, go to any thread for every other tv out there, and you will come across the same thing...people bitching about issues that dont affect 99% of the people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dross333 View Post

Everytime I'm almost ready to buy, I read something like this and my OCD kicks in and then I second guess my choice if this is the right TV for me.

If I calculated all the time I spend reading these posts and doing research X a normal hourly rate, I could have purchased a room full of these buy now
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post #8055 of 14720
2/6/09 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

That said, if they have a 65 with 9G or better blacks, they probably get another sale from me.

Damn you Pioneer

- Rich

The sad part is I know I will still buy a Pioneer TV next year unless some company jumps us with a surprise

You said it best,

Damn you Pioneer!
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post #8056 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:06am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John777 View Post

Bottom line is this: Is there a way to get a brighter alternate to Movie for daytime/casual viewing? I'm looking for something that although perhaps not technically accurate, will not scream 'poor colors' or look fake.

Get Standard mode calibrated
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post #8057 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Bottom line for me was that it kept me from buying Pioneer this year and next year a competitor may have something better.

I've had a Pio for 2 years now and to be honest I'm a somewhat disappointed. It's not worth the premium as it now suffers from bad IR and some burnin that can't be cured despite a proper breakin. When I view this set it reminds me of the other choices I had but rejected. I'd trade off IR for a slightly degraded colour. I've been watching the Pan 800U at a neighbours for the past few months and it's a better set than mine at less money. As far as customer relations are concerned nobody but nobody beats Sony for AV support. When I had my first flat screen (old XBR) they were on top of all support. Panasonic support is a step above Pio and spent considerable time working with me to resolve some minor clayface issues I had before returning the set. Pioneer is more like a car dealer, call with question or in my case IR the response is first time we've ever heard of that.
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post #8058 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

By the way, what does the firmware update on Pioneer's website fix on the 6020? Brother has a 6020.

I applied it last night. It's quite a complex procedure for such a simple task.
It fixed the analog channel scan problem where it would add static/no-signal channels to the channel list.
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post #8059 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:17am
I really don't understand you man haha. Just because you've read that a couple people are having troubles with the TV you decide to hate the TV too even though you aren't having any problems yourself hahaha. And now you want a class action lawsuit for Pioneer raping you just because you don't have all the service menu adjustments when you knew the whole time that they weren't there and you wouldn't know what to do with them anyway. How is not having the extra adjustments becominga problem??

You would sell your newer generation Kuro for an inferior black level and really no improvement in color just because you don't have your color adjustments?

Maybe if you realized that there are thousands and thousands of people out there loving their 5020/6020's that don't spend their time on the avsforum you would start to love your TV again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

you asked the same question before??^^^

It just seems to me even though a year old the 5010 would have been a better choice for everyone in hear because of the color accuracy that can be made. I just regret not waiting a little longer to see if anymore 5010 were available since i did wait like 2 years to purchase anoter TV i should have waited another 2 months. I was so set on the 5020 cuz the reviews were excellent but now its like all the problems are beginning to leak out of everyone and it seems te adjustments are becoming a problem. Maybe just maybe we will get a FW update but i doubt it..that porlly wont hapen until the 10gs come out which will probally ave all the adjustments cuz of all the complaints in here, so if they do that then i dont see a reason for them not to make a FW for the 5020's. And if they do that you can prolly file a class action lawsuit for being completely ripped off.

I know i always talk about the 5010, tho the 5020 is really good, i feel like i would not even be writing in these forums if i had the 5010!! And the last thing i want to do is sell a TV on ebay or something for half the cost of what i bought for. plus i dont want the hassle so it looks like im stuck with the tv till i can pay it off. blloowwwws
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post #8060 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:17am
So you're blaming the tv for burn in or image retention, not how the tv was possibly used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nornet View Post

I've had a Pio for 2 years now and to be honest I'm a somewhat disappointed. It's not worth the premium as it now suffers from bad IR and some burnin that can't be cured despite a proper breakin. When I view this set it reminds me of the other choices I had but rejected. I'd trade off IR for a slightly degraded colour. I've been watching the Pan 800U at a neighbours for the past few months and it's a better set than mine at less money. As far as customer relations are concerned nobody but nobody beats Sony for AV support. When I had my first flat screen (old XBR) they were on top of all support. Panasonic support is a step above Pio and spent considerable time working with me to resolve some minor clayface issues I had before returning the set. Pioneer is more like a car dealer, call with question or in my case IR the response is first time we've ever heard of that.
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post #8061 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:21am
If you've had a Pioneer TV for 2 years and you are comparing it to the 800U you are comparing the wrong generations. An 800U doesn't come close to my 9G Kuro and I haven't had one single instance of IR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nornet View Post

I've had a Pio for 2 years now and to be honest I'm a somewhat disappointed. It's not worth the premium as it now suffers from bad IR and some burnin that can't be cured despite a proper breakin. When I view this set it reminds me of the other choices I had but rejected. I'd trade off IR for a slightly degraded colour. I've been watching the Pan 800U at a neighbours for the past few months and it's a better set than mine at less money. As far as customer relations are concerned nobody but nobody beats Sony for AV support. When I had my first flat screen (old XBR) they were on top of all support. Panasonic support is a step above Pio and spent considerable time working with me to resolve some minor clayface issues I had before returning the set. Pioneer is more like a car dealer, call with question or in my case IR the response is first time we've ever heard of that.
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post #8062 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Get Standard mode calibrated

I have been wondering about that. Would Game mode be a better choice since it appears to be the closest to Movie.

How bad are the gamma's in the other modes?

- Rich
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post #8063 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnydigs View Post

I would not touch it for fear of making it more noticeable...
I doubt there is anything that will make it better..
I hate to hear about theses things showing up after taking delivery of the sets..
Sonny

I had the exact same problem. I had a series of vertical 4 fine scratches (forming a thick line of .1 inch wide and 4 inch long) on the top right corner of the panel. It was a only surface scratches. Unfortunately I had slow to react pixels on the very same corner.
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post #8064 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

You mean an 40xbr800?
I know my Sony 34XBR960 would be lucky to be considered as good overall.
If only the non-elite had color controls it wouldn't be a contest - imo.
Maybe it is the greater size playing a bigger role than I realize as a big part of that.

That's the TV I have. Now my kid has it for his Wii. I heard there were some issues with the XBR but I imagine every TV has issues. I definitely prefer a 50" HD image of the Kuro. In 16:9 the Sony was only 37". And I could not get 1080P on the XBR. But as much as i like some Blu-Ray I find it hit and miss getting good Blu-Ray movies and I have often been disappointed. I also can't justify the increase in cost to rent or buy. I'm pretty happy with upconverted regular DVD as it surpasses what I expect. To be honest I should have kept using the Sony as i was very happy with it. I thought that after 6 years of owning the Sony, flatscreens should have come up with a better picture. They have, but the televisions stations are not keeping up with them. Most SD is not even watchable in my opinion on the Kuro. It was watchable on the Sony and in 4:3 it is the same size image 40". I guess the perfect mix would be to have the Kuro for HD and the Sony for SD. But not practical. Hopefully everything will be in HD someday and really make these TV worthwhile. I sound really negative but on the other hand, when I get a good HD broadcast or a good Blu-Ray, this TV is unbelievably clear. I still freak out at that opening scene in The Dark Knight when they overlook the city. WOW !!!!
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post #8065 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:44am
Unfortunately, blu-ray discs are often a mixed bag in terms of quality.

Some of them look absolutely amazing, others don't look much better than their dvd counterparts.. thankfully I can browse the blu-ray section here to find the discs that are really stunning

I think in a few years, almost everything will be available in HD, making this sort of problem less of an issue.

I had heard that the Kuro sets made watching SD content more bearable, but I wouldn't dare compare a fixed pixel display like a plasma to a CRT.

For someone like me who has been using an LCD tv for the last 2 years, the plasma will undoubtedly be a massive upgrade in picture quality all around.

It always makes me sad to see someone disappointed with a new purchase
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post #8066 of 14720
2/6/09 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John777 View Post

Greetings all,

Have spent hours (days) reading the various pioneer threads here and over at ControlCal forums. Last week i took delivery of a 5020 and a BDP 51fd. Have about 125 hours on the panel 120 of which are with the break-in JPEGS using D-Nice settings. The 5 hours of movie watching was also done with recommended settings avoiding black bars.

So far display looks great and I anticipate using Movie made for all Blu and DVD watching due to it's color accuracy. However, there are times I would like to have a brighter (bluer) mode available for watching cable.

I tried Optimum mode but find colors a little over done and blacks are crushed. Reluctantly, I (for a few minutes) tried Standard. Although a little bluer, I was able to get some of the shadow detail back by adding a notch of brightness (ouch).

Bottom line is this: Is there a way to get a brighter alternate to Movie for daytime/casual viewing? I'm looking for something that although perhaps not technically accurate, will not scream 'poor colors' or look fake. Now I notice the 51fd player does have some adjustments beyond what the panel does, but this won't help for cable viewing. I would like to see if this 5020 will be able to provide a decent brighter mode before I a) get into grayscale calibration and associated time and expense or B) learn that I will have to return it and trade up to the 111fd to have a good alternate brighter mode.
I would like to make the 5020 work but the 111 is not out of the question.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and since D-Nice in particular knows these sets and what they can do, I would appreciate his thoughts too.


I've found Game Mode to be pretty good. I posted my settings some pages back but should be easy to find. I go back and forth from Movie to Game. Oh, and I use Sport for Sports. I hate Standard and can't get a good picture to save my life.
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post #8067 of 14720
2/6/09 at 8:01am
Dumb question, but is this Sport mode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCinWhitby View Post

Damn you made me go check again. LOL. I wanted to run the Video Pattern anyways. Here are my HOCKEY SETTINGS. Keep in mind I used these after D-Nice offsets with ControlCal.

Contrast: 40
Brightness: 0
Color: +1
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -15 (I may try -12 here for kicks)
Pure Cinema: Smooth
Text Opt: Off
Orbitor: Mode 2
Light Sensor: ON
Energy Save: OFF
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post #8068 of 14720
2/6/09 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCinWhitby View Post

But as much as i like some Blu-Ray I find it hit and miss getting good Blu-Ray movies and I have often been disappointed. I also can't justify the increase in cost to rent or buy. I'm pretty happy with upconverted regular DVD as it surpasses what I expect.

Join Netflix, where it's only $1/mo additional for Blu Ray. While perhaps not every BD is phenomenal, I think just about all of them look better than DVD. If you really want to be blown away, check out Speed Racer.
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post #8069 of 14720
2/6/09 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duds72 View Post

Thanks!! do you think it will matter if I use these without any controlcal tweaking?

THe settings will be fine but tweak them to your liking.
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post #8070 of 14720
2/6/09 at 8:13am
Regarding ControlCal and using D-Nice's offsets, this assumes that all 5020/6020s come off the line within a very close tolerance to a standard, such that these offsets are reasonably accurate for all sets? Is it accurate to say that the deviation from flat (500 or whatever the number is) that each TV starts at is the factory's adjustment to this tolerance of spec? Whereas the user menu adjustments are all based on a zero'd scale?
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