The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 297

I've never seen the seperation or the phosphor lag....but I can see the aweful blur of an lcd all the time....I suppose it depends on how an individuals vision process works.
There were some pictures of how crt/lcd/pdp handle these issues in gaming on this board that perhaps you should search for if you want.
I don't game anything like I did when I was young and I don't sit in games and pan as fats as possible to look for it either, it also has to do with the type of games.

Perhaps the 1080 lines of motion resolution 12g panny's wont make you see these things??

I don't go looking for them...they're everywhere. Characters will even start to separate if you pan while near them. It'd be nice if the new Panny's fix the problem, but who knows what the price point will be. I'd actually sacrifice screen size to get rid of the issue.

I'll take your TV off your hands. For cheap!

You are probably seeing 30fps judder.

Give a 60fps game a try, the Ninja Gaiden series is 60fps for whatever system you want to play them on (PS3 or 360) This is actually a pretty common complaint with people coming from LCD, where the inherant blur helps to hide the artifacts of a low framerate. Plasma shows it as is with no blur to hide behind. (a bigger screen also makes it more obvious as well)

Thanks I will probably do every month or so.


I have not experienced this and have been playing XBOX COD WaW, Halo3 both online and Motorstorm 2 on the ps3. I would check your system settings on both the console and display. I do play my games under the game setting and not movie, Im not sure if that may help you. I am amazed anytime I fire a game up on it on how incredible it looks.

I think it is that I was used to a CRT with no lag whatsoever. Trust me, there is lag/blur, whatever you want to call it. I think it just depends what you are used to. If you are coming from an LCD, it may appear that there is now none. I've never watched hockey on an LCD. Could be a poor HD signal. I don't want to start thinking the Kuro is defective but thanks for putting that in my head. LOL

I connected my PC directly to my TV and played Call of Duty 4 and F.E.A.R. 2. I didn't have any problems with motion blur, phosphor trails or other anomalies. I do also play xbox360 games and I did notice a bit of phosphor trailing way back when I first got my TV. I think now that it has a good 1000 hours on it that it is maybe less of an issue.

I did a little digging through my subscriptions and found a topic about the 8g Kuro and the exact same issue you are describing, the problem turned out to be 30fps judder. The second topic goes a bit more into it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1029808

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=13957956

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm fairly certain it is 30fps judder, (even though if you look very hard you can see it in 60fps games too.)...but I'm just disappointed that the plasma didn't have some way of masking it in their game mode. To me, the blur is much easier to deal with than image separation.

Hello. I just bought a 5020 for my wife's parents and was going to do the break-in steps for them. Forgive the very possibly dumb question, but how long is too long to continuously run the break in steps from post 1? Could I run it for 50 straight hours? 100? 150? Any potential problems running it that much. I assume not as they run them in airports 24/7/365 and in many other places. Thank for any help.

I am using the Onkyo TX-SR606 with my 6020 Kuro. Do any of the above issues apply to me?

Mark

Have you tried PureCinema on "Smooth" for gaming?

Yes I have. It's still there but maybe with a tad less flickering. Does anyone know the difference between smooth and Advance? I know advance is supposed to render 24fps movies perfectly, but what about smooth?

Found something interesting:

http://kuro9g.blogspot.com/2008/12/i...at-24-fps.html

Has instructions to determine if a HDMI source is 24fps(HZ) on the 5020/6020.

I tried it on my downloaded Dish-On-Line Movie Series "The "Beast " from A@E which is in 1080p.

When I hit the Display Button following the instructions 24HZ was displayed in the upper Right Corner.

That's been posted here on AVS for a long time.. the blog owner obviously reads the threads here..

I'm curious if you are experiencing any of that right now...I mean, you should be able to tell quite easily if you are having any of those issues or not. Let me know, as I have the TX-SR706 and am looking at buying the 5020 Kuro.

Check your post. The link you included refers to 24 fps, and your display uses 24 Hz. Both have clear meaning, and will not confuse anyone who looks for a definition.

You use both 1080p and 24p. The best way to refer to 24 fps or 24 Hz may not be 24p. Maybe the 24p usage comes from people texting with their thumbs.

Wikipedia may have contributors who are afflicted with the same texting virus.

I'm pleading for the extra effort needed to use "Hz" or "fps".

what is the width of the stand of the 5020fd?

Thanks for everyone's replies and insights. I will try to hold out for some hands on reviews of the new Panny's vs. the Kuro, but if stock gets bleak, I'll probably just grab one.

Did you enable game control preference as well?

I have not seen any phosphor trails or image separation in my set and it is slightly less than a week old. I had been using LCD tvs for 2 years before getting the plasma, so maybe I just don't know what I'm looking for.. but I'm very happy that I haven't seen any issues.

I don't play a lot of FPS, but I didn't notice any in the Killzone 2 demo and I haven't seen any in street fighter IV or Tales of Vesperia.

Have you thought that it may be TBE (trible-ball-effect). I see this on my older Elite, and on my LCDs.

P.S. I can claim with some degree of certainty that phosphor lag slowly reduces some over time.

21 9/16"

That is twenty one and nine sixteenths

I almost don't want you to look for it, but if you want to see, when you first get off the transport at the beginning of Killzone 2, turn around and look up at the buildings...then move the camera back and forth. Then keep doing that in large sweeping pans, and focus on a part of the building. Look for a loss in detail and an almost flickering effect. It'll kinda look like you're looking at 3D content without wearing the glasses. A good comparison is to focus on how detailed your gun looks while panning, vs the background and characters. Your gun will look fine because it is stationary on the screen.

You are Right. But you see many Articles using all Three. Thanks for the clarification.I updated my Post some.

Thanks for the Post. It seems I did not have to go through all that Questioning yesterday. This was the first time I had seen it. Thank you for the info,I did update my Post some.

For those of us confused about the various Pure Cinema modes, 24fps and frame rates in general there is a good write up @ http://kuro9g.blogspot.com/2008/11/p...film-mode.html that specifically pertains to 9G Kuros. Probably already somewhere in this thread but I haven't come across it (almost 300 pages!!). Worth checking out.

I just replaced a 52 Sony LCD (2008 model KDL52WL140) with a 6020. As many of you know, the PQ difference is stunning. The 6020 is about to finish 150 hrs of almost continuous break-in test patterns but of course, I had to interrupt it and watch some Blu ray stuff during the past few nights. I am extremely impressed with the 6020's performance. The 6020 truly delivers high-end marks on the wow-meter. My old (er, -it was new) Sony LCD was bothering me mostly because of the DARK GRAY LIGHT -which now shows-up as Black on the 6020. The 9G Kuro PQ is the best I have ever seen-but this post is not meant to be a fan-boy rant, I am just admiring HD Plasma PQ differences verses HD LCD and doing this while not-so-accidentally viewing it on a 9G Pioneer.

After ordering the 5020 from Costco, I received the 6020 with TV manufacture date sticker: Dec 2008. The strange thing here is that the previous sentence has no typos. No, really. I am glad my next-door neighbor was here to accept delivery, as he was oblivious to the error he followed my white glove DELIVERY INSPECTION check-list to the tee. Unfortunately, he missed the 10 inch error, just like the guy in the Costco warehouse who placed my name and order info on the 6020 box. I told my friend about the 10 inch mistake and he was quite upset that he did not catch it. I gave him a case of beer to assist him with any grief he felt. I will be following up with Costco in order to get this 10 inch error fixed very soon. Well, maybe not immediately, because right now I am busy surfing, working and watching my new TV

For those interested in some good HD stuff with no black bars (1.78:1) please consider Jewel - The Essential Live Songbook (BD). I have never been a Jewel fan, but I might be now. Man, it was so good. I do not mean to say that this concert is something high-end for showing-off your display, I am just saying that it is 16x9 Full Screen and that it also sounds great (DTS-HD-MA track included) -and that some people breaking-in a Plasma prefer to use full screen stuff. I think I saw other posts here or at another AVS-thread that lists a few good 1.78:1 movies to enjoy, so maybe I should not try to repeat it now. << btw, anybody know a thread or post that has a list of strictly 1.78:1 Blu-ray stuff? >> I am not paranoid of stuff with black bars, I was just thinking out loud, -and yes, I really like the 1.78:1 aspect ratio on a 16x9 TV. Oh, and I must add, Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City (BD) which is not only Fan-Fricken-Tastic, but it is also in 1.78:1.

Based on limited testing, the 6020 Home Media Gallery (HMG) performance is not good. What a shame. I really hope a miracle happens, and Pioneer releases another firmware release (that will improve HMG) before they turn out the lights in the Kuro Operations Dept. Anyone who wants HMG functionality should immediately consider a stand alone media player instead of HMG.

I have been using a couple of stand alone media players for over 2 years (Tvix 4000 and Tvix 6500) and the Kuro HMG is a huge disappointment. In all fairness, I was not expecting HMG to outperform or even equal a stand alone media player. Let's just say that HMG is immature and is likely to provide you with limited fun or disappointment. Here in this thread, we recently had a few posts (here is one) talking about the crippled Picture Slide Show of HMG. Separately, one poster strongly suggested that blu-ray movie m2ts files would play via HMG if using the TV's USB port.

Based on limited tests of HMG via the USB port, most blu-ray m2ts files would not playback without video/audio stuttering.

Video/Audio stutter while using HMG, might mis-lead you to think the USB port is not fast enough to playback the high bit-rates of blu-ray movie m2ts files. I have lots of experience playing-back different types of blu-ray m2ts files via USB 2.0 and can confirm that USB 2.0 bandwidth is more than sufficient for it to work (this includes simultaneously playing HD audio tracks). m2ts file playback works great via USB on a Tvix 6500, yet stutters if attempting to do the same thing with Pioneer's HMG. The m2ts files I am using are those which I copied from BD movies that I own.

Since m2ts is a container file I attempted to playback several types of m2ts files. Most blu-ray movies have 1 of 3 different types of video codec's embedded within the m2ts file.
MPEG-4 AVC
MPEG-2
VC-1
The only type of m2ts I could get consistent smooth playback from was VC-1 (again, the VC-1 video is embedded within the m2ts file) -however, I suspect that this success may not be attributed to the VC-1 codec only. I believe that the two movies (with VC-1) that would play, were only working because (1) the bit-rate of these 2 movies is lower than most other movies (2) the two movies each have audio tracks which are technically identical. Each movie has a LPCM audio and a Dolby Digital audio track, both share the same bit-rate and sample rate. The two BD movies that worked are;
2001: A Space Odyssey
Full Metal Jacket
I tried a VC-1 movie that included DTS-HD audio (Bourne Ultimatum), but it would not provide smooth playback. The DTS-HD audio may have nothing to do with the stuttering playback problem. It is my guess that video codec and video bit-rate are the primary issues to determine if HMG will allow playback of your blu-ray content.

A list of many BD movies is shown here. The list is quite impressive, and it shows which video codec each movie employs, video bit-rates -and it also includes info about HD-audio types that each movie has or does not have.

When using a BD player, or a Tvix 6500, or the Pioneer HMG, you can switch audio tracks during movie playback. One difference between these 3 devices is that switching audio on the first two players is easy. With HMG, switching audio is cumbersome and the HMG GUI prevents you from seeing which audio track is which?
Example: Your blu-ray disc movie has 4 audio tracks; (1) DTS-HD-MA (2) DTS (3) Dolby AC3 (4) Foreign Language XYZ. Now, if using HMG, change audio tracks by selecting TOOLS -> Audio, then you can select from the following list;
Audio 1 L
Audio 1 R
Audio 1 L+R
Audio 2 L
Audio 2 R
Audio 2 L+R
Audio 3 L
Audio 3 R
Audio 3 L+R
Audio 4 L
Audio 4 R
Audio 4 L+R
This is both a Kluge and a Bad GUI working together.

I do not plan to do any more testing of HMG because I prefer to use my Tvix 6500. I do not mean to endorse or promote the Tvix 6500 as there may be similar, newer media players out there which are even better.

When are they swapping out and bringing your 5020???????
Congrats.....
Sonny

I am using an Onkyo SR606 with a 5020 and have none of the problems describe in the post.