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The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 324

post #9691 of 14723
3/3/09 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post

Ok, so this is not the correct thread but since I want to hear from KURO owners only, I must post it here.

I just ordered a PS3 and want to buy a Reference disc to show the PQ of this set to everyone. I have read the reference forum but want to know what KURO owners think is the best on their sets. I do not care about the SQ or care about how the storyline is.

If you went to Bestbuy and had to only buy 1 blu-ray for PQ only what would you get?

Baraka
Planet Earth (BBC)
Kung-fu panda
Wall-e
Or something else?

Thanks

definitely Planeth Earth (the part with the birds in de wood) or Baraka. Seen the other movies to and they are looking great but these are really impressive!
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #9692 of 14723
3/3/09 at 1:33am
Yeah, there's quite a few of -really- good Blu-ray (BD) movies that are incredible to see on a good Plasma like the 9G Kuro. The films already listed above are the ones to go get! If I had to pick just one, it would be Planet Earth. On a similar subject, I bumped into this thread here at AVS, which talks about Demo disc's for Kuro and other TV's. I decided to download a Pioneer HD demo-video called Sync of Beauty. The demo was actually 4 separate files and 4 separate downloads of RAR files. After download, Win-RAR extracted the files into the final product, a M2TS file. This file should be playable on your Kuro via HMG (USB port), but I have not tested that method yet. I used a Tvix 6500 media player to playback this Demo video in all of its' HD glory, on a 6020, and it was really good.

I would recommend that all people familiar with M2TS-files consider adding this Demo video to your library. The video is less than 6 minutes, but it is an excellent thing to watch and listen to, on your Kuro.

I have always steered clear of digital content downloads that are obviously illegal,... but this seems to be legal for people in the United States to use... right?

The embedded links above are these;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969471
http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/hi...n-trailers.php
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post #9693 of 14723
3/3/09 at 4:19am
I got my activation key for control cal and gave it a shot, but I'm a little bit nervous about one thing. D-Nice or Turbe, hopefully you guys can tell me if it's ok.

The tv was already in Movie Mode with Pure Cinema off when I turned control cal on. The sliders were set for mode 3 and pure cinema 0 and everything else was marked at 500 by default. I made the necessary D-Nice changes to the offsets and hit the send buttons next to each one, but I never hit the send button next to Movie Mode and Pure Cinema off. Have I screwed the pooch on this one? Keep in mind also that the tv was already in movie mode with pure cinema off. If this is wrong, how can I fix it?

Thanks.
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post #9694 of 14723
3/3/09 at 4:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmachick View Post

Wrong. My set does NOT buzz. Not even a little bit. I'm not alone.

Well then consider yourself lucky, because I think you're case is the exception rather than the rule.
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post #9695 of 14723
3/3/09 at 4:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ-phYre View Post

New 5020 owner here. I am bit confused by this wording, probably just my stupidity, but wanted to make sure..

I can use these settings for proper break-in and occasional viewing. I only view 1-2 hours a day right now anyways... I am also aware of all other things to avoid (stagnant images, ect).

No, those settings in your post are not for break-in, they are just some suggested settings for normal viewing. I don't think it will harm anything, you just won't be actually breaking in the panel. The break-in settings are on the first post of this thread for non-Elite, further down for Elite.
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post #9696 of 14723
3/3/09 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

The buzz has very interesting properties. Ie: I can't hear it at 6ft, but I can hear it at 12 ft. If I sit on my couch and lean forward it is less noticeable than if I lean back against the couch. It is very directional, and I think varies greatly depending on orientation of the set, room acoustics, etc. From my reading, viewing and research, I believe all the sets have buzzing, and depending on the above factors and personal feelings, it may or may not be annoying.

Acoustics can be a strange thing. I hear that kind of description all the time with higher frequency sounds (which are directional), but not "buzzing" sounds which I take to be lower frequency (which are omni-directional). I'm pushing 50, so my high frequency hearing is much worse than someone in their 20's or 30's. I may indeed have it but just can't hear it. Also, as I mentioned I have an air cleaner next to it.

Since air cleaners are good, people that are bothered by the buzz should just get one. I have to use one all the time not just for chronic allergic and asthma problems, but due to tinnitus (the ringing is "deafening"), so white noise really helps.


Quote:


One thing I can attest to, doing a direct side-by-side comparison at lunch today (with a very well lit room), is that the A750 LCD that I'm trying out not only doesn't buzz, but hands down, no-questions-asked OBLITERATES the Kuro for black levels in a well lit room.

You're the first person I ever remember seeing say that. I wonder if something isn't wrong with your Kuro panel, like maybe defective, or seriously out-of-calibration.
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post #9697 of 14723
3/3/09 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by andiron View Post

I hate feeling so ignorant but I'm pretty much discouraged after reading hundreds of posts. I think I forget faster than I learn!

Believe me, I totally understand.


Quote:


Specifically, I'm not so interested in color, contrast, etc...but more interested in what mode....like Movie, Sport, etc...and what Pure Cinema Modes for each application.

List of the color temperatures for the different A/V modes of the PDP-5020FD & PDP-6020FD models:

A/V modes:
  • Optimum: 7500K but automatically changes

  • Dynamic: 10000K

  • Performance: 8600K with S-shaped gamma

  • Movie: 6350K with a 2.3 gamma

  • Sports: 10000K with S-shaped gamma

  • Game: 8000K with a 2.2 gamma

  • Standard: 8000K with S-shaped gamma
The Movie mode is the recommended A/V mode to use on the Kuro 9G non-Elites because it's closest to the D65 standard (6500K) and it has a decent gamma.

As for the PC modes (PureCinema), that's still being highly argued, debated, and discussed in order to find definitive positive answers with no sign of letting up. If you ask about it, be prepared to: 1. probably get attacked; 2. receive at least two totally different answers (which makes #1's response rather ridiculous and uncalled for). There's back-n-forth info about that all in this thread, other Kuro threads, but one more so dedicated to it here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1124457

I believe all the PC modes behave the same way regardless of which A/V mode is used. What I would recommend, what I'm going to do, is just find a TV program that will be unchanged for a while (sporting event for example, or DVD), and just switch between each PC mode and see if you can see a difference. The problem with that is our "memory" in these cases is extremely short and one can forget exactly what they were accurately seeing in the long time it takes to go into the menu, scroll through all the items to get to the PC mode settings, and change between each of them. There should be a button on the remote where you could select PC modes on-the-fly, or least be able to make a remote macro to do it. Otherwise the way it is now, it could take a long time to come to any conclusion--which may mean, it simply doesn't matter.


Quote:


I am almost at the end of running the break in images using DNice's settings....and plan to go to his "reference" settings afterwards. Beyond this...I'm kind of confused! Can someone make it simple? Something I can put on an index card and laminate!

You can "laminate" that color temp info above , and the PC chart here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post15926547 for starters. If you haven't already, get the PDF manual from the Pioneer site and you can search it for any specific terms.
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post #9698 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

...I think you're case is the exception rather than the rule.

I'm one that has NO buzz whatsoever that is audible, even standing right next to the panel. However, as was suggested above, I'm older than the average guy here!
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post #9699 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:29am
Marde, thank you

That link seems cool, I am Dl it now so I will try it on my flash drive!
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post #9700 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by christian30 View Post

After reading for a couple months, im still in the dark on my 6020. Do I need to do a firmware update for this tv,

Pioneer "recommends" it be updated.


Quote:


what exactly will controlcal do for me and where do I get it, and if I wanted to have someone calibrate my tv, is it really worth it and who could I get. Those charts of pre and post calibration are completely alien language to me and have no idea what it means.

If you think your PQ now is perfect, and you're happy with it, don't worry about anything else. IF however you think the PQ could be better, then it can adjust the grayscale to better accuracy, and it also gives you access to other advanced RGB, and picture controls. The drawback is it can only be used/accessed when your TV is connected to a PC or laptop via a serial cable. http://www.controlcal.com/
http://www.controlcal.com/forum/index.php
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post #9701 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkK79 View Post

1. I was anticipating just an incredible picture and so far I am a little disappointed. SD channels look far worse than my old Panny (but I can live with this) but the thing i am mad about: HD channels look less clear. They are grainy. That is the best word for it. Not horrible but I was expecting so much more (I was expecting a better picture than my old 720p Panny). Does this grainy diminish after break-in?

When you get a high-end TV capable of the sharpest most detailed PQ, it's going to amplify and magnify anything bad in a signal. 720p is of course less resolution, less "sharpness" if you will, so any undesirable content in program material will not be as noticeable on it (just like on your old CRT). Also being a larger screen makes things even worse. (Main reason why I wanted a 37-42" HDTV, but 50" was the smallest Kuro).

But as far as HD goes, it must be a problem with your DirectTV. True full HD on mine is totally flawless. I've noticed (and very confusingly) that there are tons of TV programs that claim "HD" but they are actually SD. The only way I know if the TV is tuned to a REAL HD program, is if the picture is 16:9 (no bars) in the "Auto" mode. If it ain't real HD, it will indeed look crappy as all hell. The way to be sure, is to get a true full HD DVD and look at it. If your PQ is still bad, something must be wrong with the TV. I'm seeing several mention this "graininess", and I haven't seen anything like that on mine, as long as the signal is real full HD content. (I'm on cable).
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post #9702 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkdog View Post

Firstime Kuro owner here breaking in my new Kuro 5020. I loaded the 20 jpegs linked in D-Nice's posts onto a thumbdrive and have been running a slideshow on my TV for the last 30 hours using D-Nice's break-in settings. I've noticed that all the reds are the same shade of red, greens are the same shade of green, and blues are the same shade of blue. There are slight variations in the shades of gray, but no black. When I view the jpegs on my computer, each color has 5 different shades. Why am I not seeing this on my TV?

You're not the first person I've seen mention that, and I'm not sure why. I see all variations of RGB & white/gray shades on mine when I'm running the images.


Quote:


Should I continue to run the break-in if it is showing the same shades for each color? I have been using a 30 sec interval for each slide. Also, there is a delay between slides of a couple seconds when the screen is completely black. I assume this is OK, right?

All I can say is be sure you're in Sport mode and all of the settings are correct. Look closer at the images again on the TV. Perhaps I should say, DON'T look at them. Get behind the TV and look at the luminosity of each image as it affects the room. You should certainly then see a difference in the panel light output.

The delay between images using the USB drive is normal. A "bug" in the HMG, because ~7 seconds can't be by design.
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post #9703 of 14723
3/3/09 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post

After download, Win-RAR extracted the files into the final product, a M2TS file. This file should be playable on your Kuro via HMG (USB port), but I have not tested that method yet. I used a Tvix 6500 media player to playback this Demo video in all of its' HD glory, on a 6020, and it was really good.

I would recommend that all people familiar with M2TS-files consider adding this Demo video to your library. The video is less than 6 minutes, but it is an excellent thing to watch and listen to, on your Kuro.

I don't know if it was you, but someone mentioned the .m2ts format on another thread. They won't play in mine, and the person even said to give it a .avi extension and they will play, but they still won't play on mine. My TV just ignores the file. It's listed in the HMG, but it's grayed out. I have the new FW update on mine.

How did you use a Tvix media player to play it back on your TV? I'm not familiar with that, is that some external type of device, or internal to the TV?
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post #9704 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Quote:


One thing I can attest to, doing a direct side-by-side comparison at lunch today (with a very well lit room), is that the A750 LCD that I'm trying out not only doesn't buzz, but hands down, no-questions-asked OBLITERATES the Kuro for black levels in a well lit room.

You're the first person I ever remember seeing say that. I wonder if something isn't wrong with your Kuro panel, like maybe defective, or seriously out-of-calibration.

Remember, I'm talking about a well lit room (ie: windows open, but NO direct sunlight coming in. I took these pictures this morning. The sun was on the opposite side of the house, but the plasma looks dull. If you think this is a defect then GREAT, I'd love to get it replaced, but from what I've seen and read, its been well discussed that under non-ideal lighting conditions, plasmas screens get washed out.

Now, in a darkened room, its a different story, but the change in screen appearance is DRAMATIC. These pictures aren't 100% ideal, but they are pretty close to what I'm seeing in real life.


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post #9705 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:08am
^ that's just the nature of plasma, it needs controlled lighting to excel.
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post #9706 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

I'm one that has NO buzz whatsoever that is audible, even standing right next to the panel. However, as was suggested above, I'm older than the average guy here!

Buzz heard only with my ear next to the back of the panel....from viewing range...NO BUZZ.
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post #9707 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Remember, I'm talking about a well lit room (ie: windows open, but NO direct sunlight coming in. I took these pictures this morning. The sun was on the opposite side of the house, but the plasma looks dull. If you think this is a defect then GREAT, I'd love to get it replaced, but from what I've seen and read, its been well discussed that under non-ideal lighting conditions, plasmas screens get washed out.

Now, in a darkened room, its a different story, but the change in screen appearance is DRAMATIC. These pictures aren't 100% ideal, but they are pretty close to what I'm seeing in real life.



I have my pioneer in well lit room and I cant come close to replicating that 1st pictures black screen. What are your settings? Maybe you do have a dud?

Edit* The sun came out and and is now coming through my main living room window pretty strong. My results aren't as drastic as yours but I can see it happening in the right(wrong) lighting conditions.
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post #9708 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Contacting Amazon's customer service might be a good place to start.

You will need authorization from them as a first step.

So do I call them or do I fill out the online return form?

I plan on returning it for a refund and getting something else.
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post #9709 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

So do I call them or do I fill out the online return form?

I plan on returning it for a refund and getting something else.

Just fill out the online form.

I am getting my 5020FD Thursday, I was following your threads closely, sorry that the Kuro didn't work out for you.
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post #9710 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Remember, I'm talking about a well lit room (ie: windows open, but NO direct sunlight coming in. I took these pictures this morning. The sun was on the opposite side of the house, but the plasma looks dull. If you think this is a defect then GREAT, I'd love to get it replaced, but from what I've seen and read, its been well discussed that under non-ideal lighting conditions, plasmas screens get washed out.

Now, in a darkened room, its a different story, but the change in screen appearance is DRAMATIC. These pictures aren't 100% ideal, but they are pretty close to what I'm seeing in real life.

What you're seeing is more or less normal in a brightly lit room. Plasma is meant for a controlled-lighting atmosphere, whereas LCD shines during daytime viewing.

Depending on your budget, you may want to invest in a 111 to get the ISF modes. ISF Day will provide more of an LCD "pop" and help during daylight viewing.
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post #9711 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Remember, I'm talking about a well lit room (ie: windows open, but NO direct sunlight coming in. I took these pictures this morning. The sun was on the opposite side of the house, but the plasma looks dull. If you think this is a defect then GREAT, I'd love to get it replaced, but from what I've seen and read, its been well discussed that under non-ideal lighting conditions, plasmas screens get washed out.

Now, in a darkened room, its a different story, but the change in screen appearance is DRAMATIC. These pictures aren't 100% ideal, but they are pretty close to what I'm seeing in real life.

You don't have a dud. The AR coating on the Samsung is very reflective and black. If you were to measure the black level you'd see that the Samsungs black luminance is still higher it's just that the dark screen hides it with a lot of light in the room. My TV sits in a room on the west side of my house and even with direct sunlight hitting the panel I can still watch the TV it's just not ideal. If 90% of your viewing is in a room with tons of light then you probably should stick with the LCD.
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post #9712 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Remember, I'm talking about a well lit room (ie: windows open, but NO direct sunlight coming in. I took these pictures this morning. The sun was on the opposite side of the house, but the plasma looks dull. If you think this is a defect then GREAT, I'd love to get it replaced, but from what I've seen and read, its been well discussed that under non-ideal lighting conditions, plasmas screens get washed out.

Now, in a darkened room, its a different story, but the change in screen appearance is DRAMATIC. These pictures aren't 100% ideal, but they are pretty close to what I'm seeing in real life.


I assume that's the LCD on top. It looks like the Pioneer on the bottom would look the same just by turning the brightness down and adjusting the contrast. But then again, I'm not there.

Mine is in a room now with nothing but huge full-length windows, and it looks great during the day. Of course I have nothing to compare it to directly.
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post #9713 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I assume that's the LCD on top. It looks like the Pioneer on the bottom would look the same just by turning the brightness down and adjusting the contrast. But then again, I'm not there.

Mine is in a room now with nothing but huge full-length windows, and it looks great during the day. Of course I have nothing to compare it to directly.

He just has a bunch of light hitting the screen, the settings have nothing to do with it. I can replicate the effect perfectly using a d6500 light bulb on a table lamp. (just shine it toward the screen and it washes out) It isn't all that bright either.
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post #9714 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncnmra View Post

Well then consider yourself lucky, because I think you're case is the exception rather than the rule.

My 5020 does not Buzz at all.
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post #9715 of 14723
3/3/09 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by video313 View Post

This is not true.
This has been discussed already. You probably missed something.
The 5020 provides smoother motion on 1080/24p material in Advance and Standard modes. It has been tested and proven.
No one has posted any fact opposite to that.
In Off mode you don't have 24p advantage so you just waste your TV capability.



You cannot tell the difference between non-24p and 24p material??
Do you want to say that 5020 is not able to demonstrate that difference? WOW!
I think the reason for your problem is different: you simply don't know how to operate your 5020 properly.

Use Advance and Standard PureCinema modes for 24p advantage.
With Off and Smooth you get same jerkier motion as if your BD player is set to 24p off.


Didn't someone start another thread for you. Oh ya, you weren't invited.

You watch it your way, I'll watch it my way.
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post #9716 of 14723
3/3/09 at 8:03am
Thread Starter 
Based on this post, specifically the reference to the PX75u and heat issues, you have what I call a defective panel. There are a few 5020FDs out there that cannot go beyond 30fL of peak light output in Movie mode. More than likely you have one of those panels as you should be able to get up to 42fL of peak light output from Movie mode on a 5020FD.

I recommend you either get your current set replaced or buy another brand/model display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

If I don't use power save mode 2, the 5020 produces way too much heat, enough that I could justify returning the set over it. So far power save mode 2 has had little effect on any content so far, I barely notice a difference either way. (off or on) The power save mode might make the ABL more aggressive, but I have no choice but to use it. I'm going to mess around with this more tonight to see if I can find a better balance. (but I have to remember that it gets plenty warm in the summer)

The problem is, my old Panasonic 42px75 ran much cooler, went much brighter and I never once saw the ABL kick in at all. (white letters were just as bright as a full white screen) Thanks to that I never understood why people thought that plasma had bad whites, but after having a Kuro in my house, I can fully understand it, the 5020 Kuro simply has bad whites vs most other plasma sets made in the last 2 years.

Believe it or not, I was at best buy today and the 5020 was actually the best looking set on the wall, and the blacks were obvious. Another odd detail, the new Panasonic 50x1 was right next to it, and the Kuro was both brighter, whiter and had much better blacks..... (it was flanked by a Samsung plasma and LCD as well as an Insignea LCD) nothing anywhere vlase to it could touch it in over all PQ. (no clue what mode it was set to)

If it wasn't for the insane black levels, and incredible shadow detail that gives so much depth and Punch to the image, I would have returned this set before it was even a day old. The 5020 is plenty bright for average content, but it seriously needs more brightness on brighter scenes. (like a snow field) I finally get what LCD fans were saying about crummy looking snow.
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post #9717 of 14723
3/3/09 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Based on this post, specifically the reference to the PX75u and heat issues, you have what I call a defective panel. There are a few 5020FDs out there that cannot go beyond 30fL of peak light output in Movie mode. More than likely you have one of those panels as you should be able to get up to 42fL of peak light output from Movie mode on a 5020FD.

I recommend you either get your current set replaced or buy another brand/model display.

Well Normal content was much brighter than my Panasonic, even with power save 2 on, but whites were much duller in anything other than subtitle text. The ABL on the Pioneer was noticeable to say the least. I am returning it due to significant buzz.

(heat output dropped after day one to acceptable levels)
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post #9718 of 14723
3/3/09 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Based on this post, specifically the reference to the PX75u and heat issues, you have what I call a defective panel. There are a few 5020FDs out there that cannot go beyond 30fL of peak light output in Movie mode. More than likely you have one of those panels as you should be able to get up to 42fL of peak light output from Movie mode on a 5020FD.

I recommend you either get your current set replaced or buy another brand/model display.

D-Nice...did you see my post about what happened with control-cal? I'm looking to see if I'm ok or not with what I did. I'll repost it....Thanks.

Quote:


I hooked everything up to the television (5020fd), and had the tv on in movie mode with Pure Cinema off. The sliders were set for mode 3 which is movie and 0 for pure cinema off already. I wrote down the values the television displayed like the instructions said, which were all at 500 except for g-high I believe which was 497. I changed the values to D-Nice's suggested values and hit the send button next to each one. My biggest mistake was that I saved everything, but then realized that I had never pressed send next to movie mode and pure cinema off. Will this mess up the whole thing?

I reopened the program today and all I did was change the values back to the original numbers and hit send next to each value and saved it. I didn't hit send on anything other than the values I changed last night.Then I restarted the whole thing making sure to hit send next to every slider while putting in D-Nice's settings.

Should I be ok?
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post #9719 of 14723
3/3/09 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmachick View Post

My set does this with the TWC HDTV DVR. Its quite annoying at times. Is there any way to fix this? Its like the display has to think too hard in figuring out the resolution.

set your box to display just 1080i & it should get rid of the delay.
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post #9720 of 14723
3/3/09 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwalsh View Post

1. Satellite (1080i)- Movie Mode with pure Cinema at Standard

2. DOD(1080p/24)- Movie with Pure Cinema at "OFF"If TV has been Calibrated) or Advanced(If has not been Calibrated)

3. ( BluRay)Same at 2 above.

4. Cannot help you about the PS3

I have the 722 and my set was Calibrated by D-Nice

And "Off" for 1080i non-film and 720p from satellite?
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