The Official Pioneer 9G non-Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 327

+1

I knew there would be criticism of the pics I took, so hopefully these will prove the point. I 100% agree, under ideal conditions, the picture of the Kuro is better. However, this daylight occurrence is troubling. You mentioned ISF day, but the 5020 doesn't have this feature.

Is it possible that the Elite models have a better screen or something, because I'm seeing the dull greys even with the blinds closed if it is bright outside.

These pics were taken WITHOUT flash, and are pretty close to what I'm seeing visually. Both the sets are OFF.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've incuded it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.

I finished my control-cal work and I definitely see an improvement in whites...especially when I switch between off and advanced. Thanks for all the help Turbe.

I was looking at my set with the lights off this evening and noticed I do in fact have very blotchy blacks when the lights are off, but my set is still relatively new with only about 150 hours on it. Does anyone know if this evens out over time?

I really wanna get one of the last remaining 9G Pioneers... but I now use my LCD as my PC monitor and wanted to know how does Pioneer fair as PC Monitor/HTPC?

- How's PQ?
- How's burn-in protection?
- What input works best?

Thanks

Thanks for the info. I just now tried again; I removed all of the break-in images from the USB thumb drive and all that was on it is a .m2ts file and the same file as a .avi extension, and the m2ts file plays, but the avi is grayed out. I don't understand that because the TV is supposed to support avi, yet doesn't say it supports m2ts!



Ok thank you.



Yeah, I knew that, I do that a lot. But even after doing this after someone's suggestion, even as an avi it would not play on my PC. But that's no big deal, I only wanted it to play on the USB drive on my TV.



The file that finally played for me, was nothing but a 20th Century Fox splash screen! So I'm downloading.......trying to download that Sync Of Beauty now. It's going to take about a week at this rate. I normally get 1000k downloads, at that site I'm getting 56kb!!

You're welcome.

Like I said, the Elites have a better anti-reflective filter, but the difference between your set and mine with lots of light is massive. I can't imagine the filter alone makes *that* much of a difference, but perhaps it does.

It must be the height at which it is hung, but I cannot get to any angle that makes me lose anything close to 50% of the brightness.

I can't be sure, but if you do the entire process over, starting with your original RGB values and entering the new values from the offsets, it would take 15 minutes. Then you can be sure you have calibrated the Movie mode. Of course follow the instructions this time and hit "SEND" when it says. (sorry ahd to say it.) I must have read the instructions 10 times, e-mailed TURBE over Christmas about 10 times and still hesitated.

Neither can I. I'm beginning to think there's more than one 5020 out on the market, like original and something like 'revision 1' or whatever. Buzzing issues, bad daylight viewing, yellowish cast, reddish cast, etc., but I have none of those issues. I can get way off-axis and the PQ is still the same.

There is nothing wrong with your pics or TVs. That's the way Samsung's AR filter works. There is no getting around it. CRTs had the same problem and LCDs that don't have a gloss screen would suffer a similar fate. You've got a large window directly behind your viewing area. The only thing that's gonna help the Kuro is some wood blinds or darker shades. I have a 5020 too and a larger window than yours in a similar position, plus a large window to the side. I have no issues watching mine in the day, but then I don't have another TV in the room for a direct comparison.

If you do the majority of your critical viewing in the daytime then get the Samsung, If you do the majority of your critical viewing in the evening then get the Kuro. If the "daylight occurrence is troubling" then it sounds like you've already made up your mind. I'm curious though, how does a dark movie like the Dark Knight compare during the day? Anyway, best of luck.

Well, sadly, Kuro is boxed and going back today. I can see the better PQ under very dark conditions, specifically the better shadow detail. But other than that, there are just too many minuses that I can't cope with. I tried for about 2 hours this morning (during dawn) to view every possible angle, and even with minor amount of light entering the room, the picture was always washed out compared to the LCD. Either mine is "broken", or something is different between panel types, but either way the mass confusion about this subject put the nail in the Kuro coffin for me.

I'll miss the excellent PQ under dark room conditions, however I have to admit that unless you compare scene-by-scene side-by-side the PQ of the LCD is very good, and the blacks are impressive. They really have come a long way.

All the best!

Not meaning to push the matter but can you post a photo with the TV's on with a duplicate picture. The only difference would be to take the picture straight on for both TV's in daylight conditions? Maybe adjust the settings on the Pioneer. I tried to get my TV to be that Grey with it off and I jsut can't duplicate it. Even with all the blinds open. (But I don't have an open window in front of the TV)

It may be time to ask what the best LCD is out there that would be the closest comparison to the Pioneer. I realize nobody here will say it is as good, but what would they buy if they had too. I am curious too.

Overall for your needs (and maybe mine) I think you made the right choice. Now are you sure you'll keep the Samsung. LOL.

Additional to that below, the temps on the face of my CRT were, room temperature. I can see this new TV is going to require an additional window AC unit. ~107° temps across almost 1100 sq. in. surface area (5020) is an honest to God heater.


Well this is interesting. Only about 2 minutes after stopping the slide show images and going to TV, the temps dropped. The rear is 86-107° and the screen is 84-107°. What's really interesting is you can actually see the temp differentials between black and white areas of the screen. On some guy's black suit, 84°. There was a wall-hanging CRT TV in the background of the picture with color bars (very bright due to exposure of the TV camera for the foreground), about 105°. White areas much warmer than the dark areas. What is strange, is the highest temps are at the upper right corner of the screen regardless of content.

There is a part of me that will miss the Kuro. I know I sound like I'm talking about a child, but with all the time and energy I put into this decision, I feel like it was a part of me. Yes, its sad and kinda lame. Overall I think the Samsung is the better set for our needs. Hopefully in a few years, I'll get a new place with a dedicated home theater and OLED will be perfected Then I can do it all over again.


Well, I do have another 30 days, right? LOL

you sure it is not KB, I am getting 56KB from that site. Cool demos, they play perfectly on my PS3, my 2 young kids loved the aquarium one

To be honest, I just looked at my 5020 in the bright room, and it appears as gray compared to the bezel. I'm not going to turn the master switch off, but could this be a factor of 'standby' mode? While not quite as gray as appears in those pics, I have no problem with the picture quality during the day when viewing with my tweaked settings in Standard mode. I wouldn't watch it in my room during the day in Movie mode though. Late afternoon during the winter months sheds lots of light into my family room, although the alcove the set is placed in doesn't get any direct light. Glare from the windows behind the seating area does affect the picture though.

I am considering purchasing a Pioneer 6020 Kuro. I currently have a calibrated Pioneer Elite 630hdi 58in RP. The sources would be comcast cable HD, Toshiba HD DVD, and am most likely Oppo 83 BR when released. My setup is in my family room with moderately controlled light.

I have a few questions if anyone can answer.

1. Reflections? I have the protective screen removed on my current tv. I do remember when I had the AR coated protective screen on I still could see some relections. How does the reflections compare between a kuro and the ar coated protective screen on my rear projection tv?

2. Light control? I have been reading the kuro is best suited for a light controlled room. If I am content with my current RP in this room will the 6020 be as good or better in light output?

3. Improvements? I am assuming by the reviews on the 6020 that this would be a step up in PQ. When I bought my 630hd set it was one of if the top displays available. I have been very happy overall with the pq. What improvements would I see, and are there any possible negitives when compared to a calibrated elite rp.

4. Calibration? From what I can gather most feel a calibrated non elite will be very close in pq to a calibrated elite. What pq areas are improved with calibration? I will most likely get the 6020 calibrated. I am in central virginia and I believe I am close to D-Nice, who seems to be very highly regarded. I would most likely contact him to calibrate.

5. Break-in? I am aware there is a posted break-in procedure and recommended settings by D-Nice. If I am planning on getting the set calibrated, would I need to follow this procedure or just get break-in with normal viewing varing content.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Barry

You know what I meant. We all (technically incorrectly) use kb instead of Kb instead of KB, etc. That site is still painfully slow, right now I'm getting 26KB!! I can go to another site and download something and get 800-1000KB/sec. It has taken me 10 hrs just so far, to try and download that "Sync of Beauty", and only at 12% d'loaded of the last part 4 file. Now it just stopped, hung up! I also keep seeing "ALL DOWNLOADSLOTS BUSY !! TRY AGAIN IN A FEW SECONDS !!" Now the mofo totally stopped and I have to start all over again. Damn this is like 1 baud.

I was able to download a SINGLE file trailer that looked awesome. "Only" 84mb in size. It was "hd_other_experience_blu_ray.m2ts" http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/re...ce_blu_ray.rar . That may be a good file to test judder and PC modes, because at the end I see some bad judder/stuttering on the menu where it list their "Other Blu-Ray Titles" or something like that. But it looked the same on Smooth and Advance. I didn't try the others yet because you have to start over each time and go through the whole 1:13 of it.

Which one is the aquarium file? I searched the page and don't see it.

Tropical fishes

I agree, I have a 6020 and have never seen anything like the picture shows as for the gray... Mine appears as black as the Elite that is pictured, windows open are closed....
Sonny

yeah thats very strange i have a 6020 as well and it has never looked that gray with my window open an it hits it directly

The Kuro is a great set, with tremendous PQ. However, you won't know how you like it until you see it in your setup. From my experience, placement and viewing habits will influence whether it works for you. If at all possible, get it from a local dealer that has a good return policy and try it out. Don't let my experience (and photos) scare you away from a potentially great set. Having said that, don't compromise just because everyone says its the best. There ARE other sets out there that may be better for your particular setup, despite what you hear and read.

First - 9 feet is a LONG way to be sitting from a 50" panel - you can't see all the detail in a 1080p image at that distance... you need to sit more like 6-7 feet from a 50" panel to get the full HD effect. People are so used to sitting "across the room" from the TV, it's hard to break with "tradition" and step up to a viewing distance that is more appropriate for high-def displays. You are not alone... 50" is SO MUCH LARGER than the old 27" or 32" TVs that you figure, if I sat 9 feet from a small TV, 9 feet from a large TV should be fine... and it is, sort of. But get get more detail and the widescreen effect when you sit close enough to see everything the display can deliver.

That said, what you don't like about SD is caused by the Pioneer being considerably sharper than other brands of TVs. It is showing you ALL the problems present in the cable/satellite feed. I assume you are using HDMI from the cable/satellite box to the TV? If so, you may want to try Component Video (3 separate video cables, coded Green Blue Red). These inputs "soften" the detail a bit and help mask grain. Also, be sure your noise reduction settings aren't too high... use low for a while, then see if medium helps or hurts (you may find medium makes faces look paste-y). And you have to have the Sharpness control adjusted correctly - if you are using the recommended setting for Sharpness, you should be OK. Increasing sharpness will add false edges and make grain much more obvious.

crt & plasma screens in an OFF state will reflect more light than lcd due to differences in cell structure. i've seen it on all my sets. in my office i have 2 lcds & the 5020 along 1 wall and when off both lcds are blacker than the plasma but when i turn all 3 ON, the plasma becomes a different beast, blacks are inkier than both lcds, even in daytime .

There is an AVS Forum thread that rates discs by image quality - it's pretty good for the most part. Pick anything in the top 2 categories. My personal picks...

The Dark Knight - the IMAX sequences (full screen with no black bars at top/bottom) are INCREDIBLE on Kuro displays - they are mostly dark and really show off the performance of the Kuros.

Most animation titles are amazing but are TOTALLY different than anything with live action. Favorites: Cars, Ratatouille, Wall-e, Monster House, Meet The Robinsons.

Real-Life Action in real places with real sky, real plants, real ocean, etc. - Casino Royale

All those titles have great audio too.

It's hard to pick just 1 "demo" disc - there are so many different types of movies being made - CGI doesn't necessarily look "natural". There are moments in Planet Earth that are amazing, but much of is is shot with extreme telephoto lenses or from a helicopter-mounted camera and the amount of air between the subject and camera softens things quite noticeably... and while the helicopter camera is amazing, the vibration of the helicopter only adds to the softening. Those sorts of shots account for hours and hours of viewing. Finding the jems of image quality is a bit of a hunt in the Planet Earth set.

And I'd get the disc(s) from Amazon... lower prices than Best Buy... or maybe deepdiscount.com though they are usually a little higher than Amazon unless they are having a sale... when they do that, they beat Amazon prices. There are times when Amazon has sales too... prices for some of the titles that have been out for a year or more can be well below $20 during sales (and sometimes even when there's not a sale).

Thanks. Guess I'll have to try it tonight. The site still won't allow downloads, "BUSY".