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Plasma issues, the biggest problem may not be your tv.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
After lurking these fourms for a long time, I broke down and got a new 50" plasma t.v. Am i happy with the t.v. for what i spent ? well yes and no.It will produce a very nice picture, sometimes. After just a few hours of a.b. comparison,s on diffrent sources, and with various settings (d.v.d. h.d.cable vs. standerd cable) this is what i think. If you feed this thing crap you are going to see things you dont like. On the other hand feed it a good feed, well produced d.v.d or a good h.d. source you get a very good pic.

Rember the first time you saw a d.v.d. compared to the old vhs tapes? Major diffrence big time and it did not matter what t.v. you were watching it on. Am i saying that some t.v.s arent better than others, i am not that crazy. Some t.v.s with better processers are going to hide a bad feed better than others i understand that, but the crap feed is still there. The problem that blue- ray is having is that for the average person they can see a diff.just not night and day like vhs vs. d.v.d. as prices come down more people will pay a small premium for it. But they better do it before the next big thing comes out.

I really think that all h.d. stations arent the same just because they say they are h.d. I can get a great pic.on say hbo h.d. or discovery h.d.switch to abc hd and start seeing dithering and flashing on dark pics. Switch back and its gone no setting changes on the t.v.,stick in a d..v.d great again, try another d.v.d. not nearly as good.

I think thats why so many people have a hard time choosing a t.v. You go to best buy, c.c. sears and those t.v.s are being feed a loop of a impressive video. Your average joe says that $1200.00 t.v. look,s almost as good as that $3000.00 t.v. gets it home and well you know what happens next. The first t.v. can produce a nice pic. but it wont with a bad source.T.V. #2 will hide the bad feed at home better.

The cable company,s are ripping us off. I dont need 75 stations off crap just give me 20 good ones, and let me choose the ones i want.

The same things are going on with music, mp3,s dont sound bad on a ipod,but go play that 128 bit song on a very good h.t. system and cover your ears.

Sorry for the long rant,I feel much better now,think i will go watch my 3 good t.v. stations now Oh, and please dont tell me to go buy a PIONEER i think they are the best but not every one can afford one.
post #2 of 22
Every station charges the cable company an amount to carry their programming. In order to carry the less popular stations they have to have a minimum amount of revenue. If people can pick and choose every station then the less popular stations will cease to be broadcasted and you end up with a cable system of 20 channels. I'm surprised you didn't understand that.
post #3 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks1 View Post

I think thats why so many people have a hard time choosing a t.v. You go to best buy, c.c. sears and those t.v.s are being feed a loop of a impressive video. Your average joe says that $1200.00 t.v. look,s almost as good as that $3000.00 t.v. gets it home and well you know what happens next.

Actually, I believe, for the most part, they're splicing up one source feed to 20 different displays (except magnolia rooms, bluray showroom, etc.). PQ should look better when at home with one source feed.

You should really look into buying a pio.
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Every station charges the cable company an amount to carry their programming. In order to carry the less popular stations they have to have a minimum amount of revenue. If people can pick and choose every station then the less popular stations will cease to be broadcasted and you end up with a cable system of 20 channels. I'm surprised you didn't understand that.

I do understand the need of the cable company,s to make money,thats why they exist. I was not saying they need to do away with some of the standard stations. But 25 music stations ? Free up some bandwidth and use it to give me a little better quality.Or mabey it dosent work like that. Sorry if i was wrong.
post #5 of 22
who's your cable providor?
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
Comporium, really no other option except d.t.v. in our area. About 20 miles north in the next county Time warner and people fuss about them just as much.If you want cable modem they pretty much have you. Its a bundle thing.

Oh might as well let the cat out of the bag,no off brand cheap t.v. its a new Panasonic pz 80. I read about Pioneer, Samsung better processeing.The samsung blacks just werent quite as good in the showroom.Black level vs. a very little better color, better processing on the sammy,and I really could not see huge diff. in the showroom. It is a really nice T.V. for the money. I thought the sell price on the panny vs the sammy, well i still think for what i paid it was the right thing to do. Started off with the px 80 720 and it had a few dead stuck pix.s so took it back paid some more and got the pz-80.When and if i ever get over college tution for two kids and a way too expensive wedding we wil look into a Pioneer and move this to the bedroom, thats why I went back and got 1080p. Dont get me wrong i like this t.v.
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks1 View Post


I do understand the need of the cable company,s to make money,thats why they exist. I was not saying they need to do away with some of the standard stations. But 25 music stations ? Free up some bandwidth and use it to give me a little better quality.Or mabey it dosent work like that. Sorry if i was wrong.

The average cable viewer isn't concerned about squeezing the last bit of PQ out of the system and they wouldn't even notice. The name of the game for the cable companies is attracting every last customer they can, so any added station that might do that is what they want
post #8 of 22
are you using component's or HDMI hookups to your cable box? I would do a quick switch to whatever which one you are not using and see if it makes a difference. Some have said they actually like component better while others who have experienced the compression you are talking about have found success using the HDMI cords.
post #9 of 22
The more horror stories I hear the more I feel very fortunate to have FiOS. Fiber optic to the home really is the only way to go.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
It is hooked up component for now untill my blue jean hdmi cables show up.Also dvd is hooked up component. Everything is direct to t.v. and not into arv.then to t.v. I am now off until next friday so i will play with settings and diff. hookups.I have a hd.dvd. player and a few movies( Wall mart $90.00 deal) so I will try that and then come christmas look into blue ray.I have two receviers a Yamaha 2700 and a Onkyo 805 I wonder if i do video into the a.r.v. witch one will be better if i go that route.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
I think in the new developments in our area that they are putting in fiber optic.I have been here for 25 yrs. so its the old coax. cable although it does have some sort of amp.on the system.
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

Every station charges the cable company an amount to carry their programming. In order to carry the less popular stations they have to have a minimum amount of revenue. If people can pick and choose every station then the less popular stations will cease to be broadcasted and you end up with a cable system of 20 channels. I'm surprised you didn't understand that.

I understand what you're saying and understand how the industry works....but how is only having 20 (good) channels really a bad thing? When I think about the channels that I feel are worthwile and get watched regularly..my personal number is probably less than 20. All the other fluff channels (HSN, religious programming, specialty networks etc..) could still be offered to those who wanted them for an extra fee...but of course if the demand is so low that it's no longer profitable then so be it. Why should every subscriber subsidize channels that a tiny minority actually watch?

to the OP-
At first I was going to post something like "well, DUH silly" but then when I thought about it you're right....there are far too many people who think when they pay over $1K for a tv it will magically make everything look better.
post #13 of 22
I believe that you may be overlooking a key point...50" is a very large viewing surface...it doesn't hide inherent flaws in broadcasting/content like a smaller TV would.

I own a 50" plasma and the best HD and DVD's blow away any TV/DVD programming that I have ever seen on my previous 32" Sony XBR...conversely, the 50" plasma is not forgiving on bad feeds and poor content.

I will take my 50" plasma with it's unforgivingness and potentially spectacular PQ over the less dramatic 32".

In time most all source/content will improve and catch up to the plasma's capabilities...I hope sooner than later.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
This may be a little off topic, but this whole fourm is a blessing and also a curse. If you can dig around a not take the my stuff is better than your stuff too seriously It can be a great resource.There are a lot of smart people on here.

That being said it can also make you broke.Starting as of last november look at what you guys have done.

Toshiba hd player
Onkyo 805
Monitor Audio rs6,s
Hsu vt1 sub
Yahama 2700
Panasonic pz 80 50"plasma

Middle class and falling, really happy with everything, I,m just a ageing working class hillbilly.AVS members have been a huge help.Thanks.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks1 View Post

This may be a little off topic, but this whole fourm is a blessing and also a curse. If you can dig around a not take the my stuff is better than your stuff too seriously It can be a great resource.There are a lot of smart people on here.

That being said it can also make you broke.Starting as of last november look at what you guys have done.

Toshiba hd player
Onkyo 805
Monitor Audio rs6,s
Hsu vt1 sub
Yahama 2700
Panasonic pz 80 50"plasma

Middle class and falling,AVS members have been a huge help.Thanks.

But just think, when you get to the point where you can no longer afford to drive your vehicle or go out to eat.....you can still sit at home and bask in the glorious PQ and AQ of your equipment. (providing of course the electricity doesn't get cut off. )
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thats what i told my wife, we can say a home and be happy.She was the the one that wanted the t.v. and she loves it, told me it was hers. She just told me to go the bedroom and watch my t.v.

Its a Sony 36" xbr tube h.d. ready t.v. hooked up to another h.d. box. This t.v. has always had a great pic. H.D. looks great s.d. looks good. If you really look close the same stations have the exact same issues on that t.v. you just have to get really close to see it on that 36" display vs, the pannys 50 ".
I agree that the bigger screen just shows it worse.

It really is not a huge deal because when you back off to normal viewing dis. you lose it you cant tell.The old 720 vs. 1080p thing. You cant tell it untill you get within a few feet. And yes kyler that sony will hurt you, my son in law said he hopes we never move.

Cable Companys are limited as to how much data they can move over a coax cable coming to your home.Some are moving to optical but it is very costly. Blue Ray vs. standerd DVD, Blue Ray can hold more data thus they can make it look better.My wife,s dad just retired from the cable company that i was fussing about. They do have great support and will bend over backward for you and unless they come up way to move more data into your home they are going to have problems in the future.I do know they are looking into something called cable on demand.I think it has something to do with you just pull data for the station you are presently watching.I also know that they have millions and millions of dollars of old coax cable in the ground that in the next 10 yrs. will become obsolete.

I stand by my first post if you send it junk it may look like junk, but man when you send it good stuff, thats nice, thats what i spent my money for.
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

The more horror stories I hear the more I feel very fortunate to have FiOS. Fiber optic to the home really is the only way to go.

I've read plenty of horror stories regarding FiOS. The image quality is spectactular (thank you, fiber optics) but that's where it ends. Equipment problems, install problems, and billing problems with FiOS make the cable companies look like service provider of the year candidates (and believe me, they're not). They're also behind the curve in HD expansion. Hopefully all this stuff gets ironed out because I want to love the TV service (have FiOS internet and it's great), but there are alot of issues, enough to keep me away for now.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyler13 View Post

I've read plenty of horror stories regarding FiOS. The image quality is spectactular (thank you, fiber optics) but that's where it ends. Equipment problems, install problems, and billing problems with FiOS make the cable companies look like service provider of the year candidates (and believe me, they're not). They're also behind the curve in HD expansion. Hopefully all this stuff gets ironed out because I want to love the TV service (have FiOS internet and it's great), but there are alot of issues, enough to keep me away for now.

While I don't have FiOS TV, I do have FiOS Internet & phone service and most of what you state is blatantly un-true.

There have been (2) FiOS techs to my house & both were thoroughly versed in what they needed to do and very professional during their visit.

My Verizon FiOS service has been "rock solid" just as my DSL service was before that. Conversely, my Time Warner Cable service has been problematic on a consistent basis during the past 10 years that I have resided at my current address.
post #19 of 22
Generally speaking, televisions are "garbage in" "garbage out," although quality processing does make a difference, and certain technologies (CRT) are actually much better at hiding picture defects than others. So yes, it stands to reason that the picture will look much better on quality material than on crap.

Having said that, there are several plasma PQ defects that really have very little to do with the source: phosphor lag (my personal peeve), dithering, and so forth. In fact, I find it harder to spot phosphor lag on a crappy source than on a clean source because the crappy source has all that "crap" to distract me. Having said that, I'd rather watch a beautiful HD picture with noticeable green trails than a garbage SD picture anyday.
post #20 of 22
The degree of dithering depends on the brand of plasma in my experiences.
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

The degree of dithering depends on the brand of plasma in my experiences.

I'm sure you're right. People also say that phosphor lag varies from brand to brand. Although I haven't done nearly enough A/B comparison to be able to confirm the latter, I have no reason to doubt it.
post #22 of 22
Back to the original poster's message, I have seen my plasma television display stunning images, with incredible contrast, detail and colour saturation. The problem is that it is not the majority of the time, and that is so disappointing. Source quality varies wildly, even through the same medium. The same channel can look different from one day to the next. And bad HD DVD or Blu-Ray transfers, though unforgiveable, are certainly more numerous than you would expect. So, I know my television CAN generate the true HD image we all want. However, on many occasions, the source material is not up to standard, which results in a less-than-the-best PQ than the TV is capable of producing.
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