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DIY 3 way main speaker with 15" drivers?? - Page 2

post #31 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Penn, that wall doesn't look finished, unless that's a dated picture

Nope, the wall isnt finished. I have been running measurements in the room and adding Acoustical treatment, while testing different brands of bookshelf speakers. I will finish the wall with fabric when I have things set.

I know I have "cornered" myself and Im definitely compromising in the end! Next HT Room will be different!
post #32 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


In the end, this is a DIY forum, you're considering building speakers, and depending on what's on the other side of the front wall, I don't see anything that a Sawz-All can't make bigger

Nothing is behind the wall, its a room above the garage so its just crawl space behind then the garage roof.

My CC frame ended up being my biggest design mistake. I had the subs and I had the mains and I had everything fitting around and under the screen. My one goal is to not have any speakers really in the room, all flush with the walls and hence my need for BCS modified speakers. The CC Box became smaller because of how the framing of the room got in the way and I didnt want to start ripping out parts of the actually frame.

It really is crunch time and after a couple days of reading, I just think for now I will be going with the Mains I own and have tested because I need to finish the room and I have really no time to learn and build actually main speakers with crossovers,etc.

Im sure 6 months or a year from now, I will modify the CC box and build myself 3 very nice DIY speakers. This thread has given some great ideas and also a reality check!
post #33 of 862
Weren't these kind of large bookshelf speakers popular in the early 70's? Advent, Marantz etc?
post #34 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundrSQ View Post

Richard Clark used servo driven 15" midbass drivers in what has often been referred to as the best sounding car ever built. And most attribute the 15"s as the best sounding part of the car.

Are you talking about the Buick Grand National Speaker Works built that was later sold to Richard Clark?

http://www.usdaudio.com/sw/cars/buick/

penngray you might want to look into some PA speakers.
post #35 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Almost any driver on a horn/lens/waveguide, even if it's a cone, will require some response shaping...As usual, it's all in the execution. The neo compression driver in the coax I am using is very extended on both ends of the frequency range. When used appropriately and with a bit of work it does not sound like a classic horn, but getting to that point is not a 1st time passive crossover project, and is most easily dealt with using careful measurement and external DSP filtering..

Sounds like a driver I don't want to use for my first project then Maybe later on I'll pick one up and play with it. It looks nice and compact for 3-way center channel use.
post #36 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Yeah, the bookshelf 15" idea is probably silly

8" or 10" drivers could work though. I dont know if I want an line array, I want to build a box so they are more "portable" if I move them to another room.

I would like to throw in a 3-Way design with some PHL drivers. It's not really small, but can be used as a "Bookshelf".







Drivers are the PHL B25-3002 10" Bass and the PHL X17-1240TWX Coax. The Bass needs just 39l volume and the Coax 7,5l. Frequency Range is from 40 - 20000 Hz. So, if you just need 60 Hz you can still reduce the volume for the Bass.

I don't think I have to mention something about the Quality of the PHL drivers.

The Coax is fantastic! It is a One-Point Source like a fullrange driver, without having the sweetspot of the fullrange.

The speaker were considered last year at Germany's DIY Speaker-Building exhibition as one of the best. The price for them are quite fair as well, at least in germany. 1.200,- € incl. parts for the crossover. Not cheap, but worth everey cent.

I assume they are still cheaper in the US-Market.

If you don't like the design, you can easily change it. As I said you do not need very much volume.

Best regards
Tapio
post #37 of 862
Northern: Is this your design?
post #38 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Northern: Is this your design?


Hi,

no, but I build it. Unfortunately most of the information to this speaker is in german, especially the plaudit

This is the Link to the Developer
http://www.lsv-achenbach.de/kits/point_p.htm

Tapio

Edit:

Forgot to mention. There is also a version just with the Coax, which will work just with 20l (possible down to 13l). Frequency Range 50-20k. The efficiency is a lower than the version with separate Bass. But it's ideal to build a center speaker for HT use with it.
post #39 of 862
Thread Starter 
Ok, I can not get away from this....

Now Im thinking an MTM design for my mains and CC....

my mains would have 2 10" and one nice tweeter offset. Just like my Emotive ERM-1 design



but BIGGER!!

The CC may have to be smaller just 6" drivers and the same tweeter.

The other design issue is handling that Baffle Step Constraint Stuff and I think that is all in the crossover design.

Where is a good place for templates, instructions on building MTMs? Is there just kits to buy even if I want this custom size?
post #40 of 862
Penn,

What are you wanting to spend on these? Why dont you ping John at AE to see if he has had any time to continue on the ones linked below?

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/vie...php?f=1&t=1620
post #41 of 862
Yeah penngray, why not see how is John @AESpeakers going on with the monitors. Or check out Geedee's Summa kits (called Nathan or something). Wayne's speakers at Pispeakers is affordable too.

MKtheatre just got his JBL 3622N and is very happy with those.

Domes just will not cut it for triple digit DBs esp for your big rooms, even with the expensive stuff like R2904/7000.
post #42 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


What are you wanting to spend on these?

What Im *willing* to spend is maybe between $1000 to $1500 for three speakers.

I know thats possible with DIY but maybe not possible with a comercial solution. Im also thinking that with all my specific needs that DIY might be the only viable solution because I can build the box size and shape to what will fit and I can learn how to create the crossovers to handle how Im placing my speakers.
post #43 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

What Im *willing* to spend is maybe between $1000 to $1500 for three speakers.

I know thats possible with DIY but maybe not possible with a comercial solution. Im also thinking that with all my specific needs that DIY might be the only viable solution because I can build the box size and shape to what will fit and I can learn how to create the crossovers to handle how Im placing my speakers.


Depending upon what you have in 'Inventory' for amplifiers, you might consider picking up a DCX2496 crossover and going active. That unit makes it very easy to tweak and tune when you are dealing with an unknown such as your cabinet size dictated by the environment and the flush mount/BSC variables. You can pick and choose your crossover points and slopes along with parametric EQ and adjust to taste in your room. For a 2 way you would only need a pair of amps for the Left and Right.
post #44 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


For one of these monitors you'll need a pair of TD10M's, the Fountek ribbon, crossover components, some MDF, screws, glue, etc. Here is a general list of cost for a single speaker at retail prices:

2 TD10M's $239 each retail
NeoPro5i $305 retail
Xover components $25-30
sheet of MDF $20
screws, glue, etc $20

Total of $853 at full retail

I will be offering the TD10M's with the current Lambda special of $100 off on a pair, and can also knock some off the NeoPro5i as I will have the quantity pricing on them. Expect things to come in at around $700-725 total per speaker. In a 5+ channel set, the driver cost can drop down even more. Again, this isn't a budget speaker by any means. It does use high quality drivers that are not cheap. However, this system will be able to rival or outperform those similar to the ones I listed at nearly 10x the cost.

This is from John (original on here) but I copied it from that AE thread. Not a bad price point at all for custom, high end quality speakers!! I wonder if the size and crossovers are somewhat customizable? I dont even care if the box is finished honestly.

Quote:


Depending upon what you have in 'Inventory' for amplifiers, you might consider picking up a DCX2496 crossover and going active. That unit makes it very easy to tweak and tune when you are dealing with an unknown such as your cabinet size dictated by the environment and the flush mount/BSC variables. You can pick and choose your crossover points and slopes along with parametric EQ and adjust to taste in your room. For a 2 way you would only need a pair of amps for the Left and Right.

hmmm...thats something to consider.
post #45 of 862
I had spoken with John a few weeks ago and he said he had been a little to busy getting drivers out to continue to move forward on that design. I do hope he can finish it up since I want one to use as a center channel to match with a custom L-R 3 way design I am having built.
post #46 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I want one to use as a center channel to match with a custom L-R 3 way design I am having built.

you will use that design for the CC and you have custom 3 way designs. Is there a "timbre matching" issue?

Is your 3 way designs DIY?
post #47 of 862
Penn,

I am having these custom built for me. I picked the Lambda TD12H, PHL 1120 and NeoPro 5i.

I had looked into doing this by myself but a few issues were present. One is my complete lack of experience in speaker design. The other is the fact I am in a chair and I did not think I could pull off the wood working side it. So in a sense these are DIY but I am paying to have them DIY'ed.

With those drivers in the L-R, I do not see any issue in John's design matching up with them.

Sorry for such a long winded answers.
post #48 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Penn,

I am having these custom built for me. I picked the Lambda TD12H, PHL 1120 and NeoPro 5i.

I had looked into doing this by myself but a few issues were present. One is my complete lack of experience in speaker design. The other is the fact I am in a chair and I did not think I could pull off the wood working side it. So in a sense these are DIY but I am paying to have them DIY’ed.

With those drivers in the L-R, I do not see any issue in John’s design matching up with them.

Thanks for the answer, I have zero experience in speaker design too so I might take the same appoarch if the price is right. It seems like the SQ and SPL is exactly what Im looking for.

Good luck with yours!
post #49 of 862
Penn,

Things are moving along nicely with mine. I just got all the drivers over to the folks working on mine. The measurements on the Lambda have been made all ready. One thing to keep in mind (at least on what I am doing), is the drivers alone were about 1,400. Then the cost of custom cabinets and crossovers added to the total cost so these are not going to low cost speakers.

I really do hope John finishes his design since I do want one and I really think he could sell quite a few of them. I do understand his main business is producing drivers and since that is keeping him busy, that is a good thing for his company.
post #50 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


is the drivers alone were about 1,400.

thats a good chunk change for just drivers, is the NeoPro 5i the big expense?

I need to find out what box demisions, price and crossover design I need for 2 Lambda TD10s and the NeoPro 5i. Maybe I should go with a less expensive but good quality tweeter (maybe not a ribbon either).
post #51 of 862
Thread Starter 
How do I find out what drivers are available in General??

In this thread I have.....

PHL B25-3002 10" Bass
PHL X17-1240TWX Coax

Lambda TD12H
PHL 1120
NeoPro 5i

Also Part Express and Elemental Design have drivers available. What are the cost and SQ differences? eD has those 13Kv.2s for $50 but I guess these can only be used subs??

Is there a nice spreadsheet or something out there listing all the drivers available for DIY speaker building. There are great charts for sub drivers that makes it incredibly easy to pick a driver so the same should exist for DIY speakers.
post #52 of 862
...... nuke
post #53 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


You can also substitute the NeoPro5i with the $120 Fountek
ribbon to save $370/pair if you wanted the ribbon type
of tweeter. Ribbon, dome, both have their own type of sound and pros/cons. Ribbons prefer to be aimed at the
listener so I would do a two piece design, an MT box
sitting on top of the woofer box to allow mechanical fine
tuning of the MT speaker aiming.


I just demoed Salk Speakers in house with a ribbon tweeter, I didnt dislike it or think it was amazing. I probably with go with a dome tweeter instead is that okay in a fully active sound system, electronic crossover [analog or digital type], no passive crossover, six amp channels?

I do remember this ....
Quote:


domes just will not cut it for triple digit DBs esp for your big rooms, even with the expensive stuff like R2904/7000.

so maybe I do need a ribbon tweeter.....so much to learn


Quote:


This is not a normal speaker recipe you encounter in cyber
on a daily basis. This is high end stuff. If you found this
stuff in commercial audio, don't be surprised if the speakers cost you $40k

Thats cool, I just want something that sounds as good as 10K speakers
post #54 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

I am having these custom built for me. I picked the Lambda TD12H, PHL 1120 and NeoPro 5i.

Sounds like mine, but I'm going with a TD15x. Tuned to 30hz, I likely wont have to use subs when listening to the music I usually listen to.

Also, who's doing your XO work? If you can't say, that's fine or if you don't want to say in public, PM me.
post #55 of 862
Penn,

The tweeters were the most expensive part. They were 305.00 apiece.
post #56 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyg2 View Post

The Dayton Reference Series drivers are really nice. I'd go with a Dayton Reference Series 8" woofer (can easily go down to 60Hz), the Dayton Reference Series 2" Midrange, and the Dayton Reference Series tweeter.

That should give you plenty good sound quality and go down plenty deep enough for you.

Problem with the Dayton Reference 8" is that it has cone break up problems above about 500 Hz. Two of the 7" Reference drivers would be best if you want to match to the Reference 2" dome. Or, with the 8" use the Reference 6" or 5" and then the Reference tweeter. Overall the Dayton reference is hard to beat but I personally would not use the 8" over about 500 ~ 600 Hz. Other than that I like them better than the far more expensive Seas drivers.

Monte
post #57 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Sounds like mine, but I'm going with a TD15x. Tuned to 30hz, I likely wont have to use subs when listening to the music I usually listen to.

Also, who's doing your XO work? If you can't say, that's fine or if you don't want to say in public, PM me.

I have some good PMs going and so some info I assume is proprietary but I dont have much info yet so I have nothing to really post yet, accept I might be using the DCX2496 to handle my crossovers because it gives me great flexibility. Who knows, its all just talk right now.

Bobbyg, Im going a little higher end with the Lambda products (EDIT: So far but for ease of build I might go back to the Dayton Reference series!!). Thanks for the post Monte, did you ever post your HT room sub designs here?
post #58 of 862
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Penn,

The tweeters were the most expensive part. They were 305.00 apiece.

Yeah, I might try to scale back on that cost. Im not sure I will be able to tell the difference between that tweeter and one maybe around $150 in my room at normal listen levels. That is a purely subjective opinion so far so I will have to learn more.
post #59 of 862
Thread Starter 
Dayton Reference Series design vs Lambda/PHL/higher end Tweeter design

Sure subjectively Dayton Reference designs dont come close to the Lambda designs but will I actually tell and hear the difference??
post #60 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Dayton Reference Series design vs Lambda/PHL/higher end Tweeter design

Sure subjectively Dayton Reference designs dont come close to the Lambda designs but will I actually tell and hear the difference??

Yes, unless you are severly hearing deficient.
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