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RG11 fittings: crimp or compression?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for RG11 'F' fittings and from my research of the two choices, taking into account the cost of the fitting and the cost of the tool, which is the better choice?

Or to ask it another way, is the 2x cost of a compression over a crimp fitting and tool really worth it for a home install?

Understand, this would be of limited use as I rarely use RG11. I do understand these compression fittings, being somewhat new have a price that reflects this on top of being a more expensive connector to manufacture. The other issue is the tool. The cheapest compression tool I have found so far is $37. Some are close to $100 which is plain ridiculous. The chespest I have found compression fittings so far is $2.20 with some as high as $4.
On the other hand, crimp fittings I have found as low as $1. and around $20 for the tool.
post #2 of 20
You should always use compression fittings on any coax cable. Crimp fittings suck.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
They worked for many, many years. I have had compression fittings come apart om me just as crimp fittings have done.
post #4 of 20
Compression fittings are water tight and better suited to outdoor use.
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I'm looking for RG11 'F' fittings and from my research of the two choices, taking into account the cost of the fitting and the cost of the tool, which is the better choice?

Or to ask it another way, is the 2x cost of a compression over a crimp fitting and tool really worth it for a home install?

Understand, this would be of limited use as I rarely use RG11. I do understand these compression fittings, being somewhat new have a price that reflects this on top of being a more expensive connector to manufacture. The other issue is the tool. The cheapest compression tool I have found so far is $37. Some are close to $100 which is plain ridiculous. The chespest I have found compression fittings so far is $2.20 with some as high as $4.
On the other hand, crimp fittings I have found as low as $1. and around $20 for the tool.


If your only going to use the RG-11 a couple of times I would vote for crimp fittings and use Coax Seal for your outdoor connections. Coax seal works great I've used it for years http://www.coaxseal.com/How%20to%20Use%20Coax-Seal.htm
post #6 of 20
Compression. There is a download at http://www.cencom94.com/Download.html that includes a couple of pages on hex-crimp fittings and why not to use them. It's labeled DBS Tutorial.
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclapp View Post

If your only going to use the RG-11 a couple of times I would vote for crimp fittings and use Coax Seal for your outdoor connections. Coax seal works great I've used it for years http://www.coaxseal.com/How%20to%20Use%20Coax-Seal.htm

Do you care about money? You can install crimp connectors with a pair of pliers. Just make sure you use the coax seal.

By the way, the risk with using connectors that have pin center conductors is that with many of them, you can't tell for sure whether the center conductor of your coax has penetrated the center conductor seizure mechanism. I just serviced an account where the commercial installation company had used the really nice brass $5 LRC connectors several years ago but when someone just brushed against a splice in the trunkline, they broke the connection in BOTH of the connectors at a splice, even though the coax was in there tight and couldn't be pulled out. I had to cut both of them off and replace them.

There are some RG-11 connectors where you install the pin before you slide the coax into the housing, so I higly recommend those for the do-it-yourselfer. In fact, the old, junk crimp-ring RG-11 connectors that use the center conductor as their pin are the most goof-proof but if you use those, you will have to use old fashioned, so-called 1 GHz barrel splices, because the center conductor will not fit into the seizure mechanism of most, if not all 2 GHz and higher connectors.

And if you do use the $20 crimping tool, you might have to put some card-stock in the jaws of the tool when you crimp it, because they are not a perfect match for many crimp connectors and will not deform them enough to make a secure connection without effectively reducing their "die" size by putting in the shimstock when using them.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
mclapp; I too have used CoaxSeal for many years. Really works great. You can remove it if need be to unscrew the fitting and just replace it afterwards.
Sure beats those useless 'weather boots' that only trap moisture in.

egnlsn; Thanks for the link. The only reference I found in that document was the bottom of page 13. Was there something else? I also found it here (3rd from the top);
http://www.cencom94.com/gpage.html9.html

That was dealing with a complex distrubition system in a building where errors multiply themselves. In a somewhat simpler install, one antenna, amp and a few TV's I doubt that difference would/could be any real issue. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong or missed something.
Quote:


You can install crimp connectors with a pair of pliers.

I'm surprised you even said that. I would never even think of useing pliers to 'crimp' any connector.
Quote:


the risk with using connectors that have pin center conductors is that with many of them, you can't tell for sure whether the center conductor of your coax has penetrated the center conductor seizure mechanism.

Funny you mentioned this as this was a concern of mine for either type of connector as it is with any other one piece connector with a center pin that isn't soldered or crimped separately.

I have been talking to a couple of distrubitors and one manufacture. He mentioned their 'compression' fittings have the center pin recessed. When the fitting is compressed, the center pin gets pushed into the fitting and out the end into the correct position letting the installer know the compression was done correctly.
I have looked at cut aways showing a flared entry for the center conductor of the RG11 that gets drawn together much as the reverse of peeling a bananna (if that makes sense). These were Holland SLC-11. They call it a "sliding pin'.
I was kinda impressed with that concept.

I also considered connectors with a separate center pin just as some BNC connectors have. I'm not sure how the center conductor gets attached to that pin though, if it is soldered or crimped.
post #9 of 20
If you use pliers, just pinch a little on each side, rather than crushing the middle.

There are old connectors where you use a tiny crimp die to crimp the pin on the cernter conductor.

As far as the ones with the sliding or recessed pins are concerned, the center pin just receives and snugs up on the center conductor without being crimped, but with some you can tell for sure that the center conductor is in but with others you can't

I have some nice, outdoor "DRS" Rg-11 connectors with an internal "O" ring inside the nut, and they use a sliding pin, but you can miss the center conductor seizure hole opening and the center conductor will still push the pin into the proper position.

What you need to do is figure out just how deep the coax goes into the connector when properly installed, and make sure that when you shove it in, that it actually goes in that deep. You might put a little piece of tape on the coax for a reference point before you inserrt it.
post #10 of 20
I have been using F-Conn's FS11 fittings with no failures. Always seats nicely and compresses smoothly. Probably what I like the best is that the nut is 7/16, and the LCCT-S59/11 compression tool is for 21mm fittings as well as F-Conn's 7 & 11 fittings. Fewer tools to carry around.
post #11 of 20
FWIW, I got a package of RG-6 compression connectors, and installed them with two pairs of drop jaw pliers with no problem. Just JB-Weld the back of the connector to the coax. It'll never come off.

I'm planning on doing the same thing when I install some RG-11.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
Regarding the compression fittings, can any 'compression' RG11 tool be used with any RG11 compression fitting or are they manufacture specific?

Then fittings I have considered are;

Compression:
Holland SLC-11,
Pico-Macom F11-001,

Compression:
Holland F11-460,
Pico-Macom F11457T,
Steren 200-021
post #13 of 20
When I installed my RG11 line I bought crimp connectors as that was all that was available at the only store around that sold RG11 stuff at all. That store was a Mom and Pop store that has since gone out of business. Said they couldn't compete against the Fry's. Too bad because they sold stuff cheaper and better.

Anyway, I got the RG11 for $20 and the crimp connectors for 87 cents for a package of 2. The only crimp tool that was designed for RG11 size cable cost about $80. So I used pliers. I had boots that covered the connectors and that protected them from the weather. However the pliers crimping left a poor mechanical connection that came undone easily.

Rick R
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:


However the pliers crimping left a poor mechanical connection that came undone easily.

That's why I would never use pliers.

The cheapest crimp tool for I found for RG6 can be had for around $13, The cheapest I have found the same tool (different sized die opening) for RG11 is over 2x the price.
post #15 of 20
I was fortunate enough to have some RG-11 cable and a bunch of Thomas & Betts SNS11AS compression connectors (http://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?Fam...=263&Cat2ID=90) given to me by a kind cable technician a few years back. Some people report that you can't thread RG-11 connectors onto standard fittings, supposedly because of the differently-sized center pin, but I've never had any problems connecting them to any antenna, switch box, component or tv. The threading is just a little harder, so you have to use a wrench, but they always work fine. The quality of the connectors seems very good to me, and they're suitable for outdoor use as well.

In order to work with these myself, I bought a Sargent 9000US universal RG-59/6/11/7 compression tool, which works very well:

http://technicalconnectionsinc.store...0snintorg.html
http://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?Fam...D=39&Cat3ID=33

According to the description, it's supposed to work universally with several different brands of connectors. It appears they also sell some compression tools dedicated to individual brands of connectors:

http://www.mjsales.net/cat3.asp?this...D=39&Cat3ID=33

For the cutting tool, I went with the Sargent 8720ES universal cutter for RG 59/6/11/7:

http://technicalconnectionsinc.store...7rgandrgs.html

They also sell cutters that aren't as universal for a few bucks less:

http://technicalconnectionsinc.store...et/saquto.html

Hope this is helpful...
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

That's why I would never use pliers.

The cheapest crimp tool for I found for RG6 can be had for around $13, The cheapest I have found the same tool (different sized die opening) for RG11 is over 2x the price.

I made a quicky rg-11 crimp tool by drilling a hole in a piece of 3/8" thick flat steel the size of the coax and then cut it in half. I put the 2 halves on each side of the connector and squeezed with some vise grips. You could probably drill out an RG-6 tool to do the same thing. I wouldn't want to do it for 100 connectors but it worked fine for the 2 I had to do.

Crude Yes
Cheap Yes
Effective Yes
post #17 of 20
As I mentioned in a previous post: I don't know about RG-11 compression connectors, but I had good luck with two pairs of drop-jaw pliers on RG-6 compression connectors.
post #18 of 20
Using two pair of such pliers works OK on RG-6 connectors that have a plastic sleeve that is squeezed into them but doesn't work so well on connectors in which the outer barrel must be evenly compressed. None of the RG-11 connectors I have used has such a separate plastic sleeve.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

The cheapest crimp tool for I found for RG6 can be had for around $13, The cheapest I have found the same tool (different sized die opening) for RG11 is over 2x the price.

If I found one for $26 for RG11 I would have gotten it. Unfortunately the cheapest I found was 3x that.

Rick R
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks for those links, but those prices were higher than what I have found.

I found a 9000 series Sargent tool for $30 through e-bay and some PPC compression fittings. I will report back on the results.
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