Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Owner's Thread - Page 100

Yes, that seems to be the latest firmware for December BE2 TVs. My XBR6 has manufacture date of Dec 2008 and also has the "F" change.

Cal. What are the firmware versions on each? And do you happen to have a PC connected to the these two TVs to see if shows this Halftone image pixel perfect? In other words, do you see pixel ON then pixel OFF and not just a blur of gray?

This is weird. Many of us acknowledge that the Z series could/should have better viewing angles. I was in Fry's this morning and they had a black and a silver 40Z sitting next to each other. They were set on their bases above head level. I put both sets in standard mode with the same settings and did some viewing from around 10 feet at dead center moving out at a gradual angle. I was very surprised to see that the angles held up much better than my original 40Z or the replacmemt unit that I have. I have no way of explaining this other than the elevation of the sets. Does anyone have any thoughts on this.

I noticed the same thing with my set compare to the same set in the Fry's.

It's got have something to do with the store's lighting enviroment and/or the high postion of the sets but it is very puzzling. If my Z got viewing angles like those, it would be a big improvement

As stated, the stock firmware on one and the 202r up-dated firmware on the other. I do not have a PC connected and have never had a reason to.

"Mine never got better, lines like yours came on 5 secs after turning on. I hate the experiance with Sony Warranty, I will never buy a Sony product again. In the end, they could have sent me a new TV for what they paid to have mine fixed"

FWIW, I just had a great experience with Sony. I had a two-year old Grand Wega, and literally a few days after the 2-year warranty expired I began to have light purple blooming in the corners. Turns out it was the optical block, a sort of known problem, and they offered to either fix it or sell me a KDL52W4100 for $1000, including shipping.

Since the original TV is still very much usable I opted for buying the new TV, so here I am trying to figure what what I just got!

But I have to give Sony credit for giving me great service, even after the original warranty expired.

A 52" W for 1K? NICE!

I spent literally 2 hours in Best Buy comparing the z4100 with the w4100 and XBR6 and the Samsung 650 and Panasonic 42" PZ85. I calibrated each set for minimum backlight and maximum usable contrast during the standard loop BB uses so I could see the results on each TV. I don't think the W or XBR6 offered any noticeable improvements over the Z4100. They might have been a little blacker blacks but none of them had true blacks compared to the Panasonic so who cares.

I chose the 4100 from the other Sonys because the picture seemed a little more lifelike (subdued actually) which I view as a good thing and the fact that the TV is very minimalist looking. Personally I find the W and XBR6 too bulbous and sculpted and the wider bezel is distracting in serious movie watching. The Samsung was perhaps a little more contrast but not as natural picture processing and the glare on the screen is completely unnacceptable to me. It's too distracting during movies which is all I watch. For normal TV I probably wouldn't care.

The Panasonic definitely had the best blacks and contrast and I could live with the lower brightness with no problem. It also had very natural full range colours which bettered the Sonys. However, I didn't like 1990s look and the fact that there seemed to be a kind of screen effect with the orientation of "pixels". Because I sit 6 feet away I can see the individual pixels and this made it seem less sharp and distracting. Overall, the Z4100 provided a top quality picture, beautifully aesthetic design and no glaring drawbacks of the competitors. It is not the best in any one area, but it is top quality in all areas which is why I bought it. I have had excellent backlight uniformity and no sparkles. I find the sound to be better than any other LCD I tested. Not the loudest, but certainly the most natural.

Mine has viewing angle problem, it start to white out the color from 20 degree viewing angle, did anyone has solution for this?

Buy another TV (i.e., not an LCD) or crank up the brighthess/contrast/color setting to "Vivid" levels. Not necessarily useful options, but the only "fixes" I know of.

If you like LCD's, you have to learn to live with limited viewing angle with present technology. Some LCD panel types (such as IPS) are better than others in this respect but can have their own issues (black levels, response time, etc.) though things are always improving.

I did some more comparative testing of my, for now, two 40Zs with stock and 202r firmwares respectively. The sets were in reasonably close proximity to each other with one being fed by a Phillips BD player and the other by a Panny BD player through HDMI ports. I used a cross-section of BD and SD DVDs running the same scenes from a given disc on each TV. The images were remarkably similar. I think that my original set with the updated 202r firmware may have slightly more color saturation and contrast at same picture settings but so far that seems to be it. That may be due to the firmware change or just may be a minor variation between individual sets in the same model series. The motion handling on the stock firmware also seems to be a bit better than 202r but these are pretty fine distinctions. I'll do some more comparisons of both DVDs and SD/HD cable shows and post those findings.

did some more A-B tests. The panel on the refurb that Sony sent is MUCH better than my original set's. It's backlight is more even. I looked at scenes form Hairspray and I, Robot. Once again, the overall PQ was pretty much comparable but I am now convinced that the stock firmware is better 202r when it comes to motion. I had both sets on Cinemotion Auto 1 and put the Motion Enhancer on High because it tends to generate more motion artifacts and judder. With both films, my old set (202r) showed quite a few artifacts while the refurb with stock, showed very few. I hope that these comparisons are of interest. We've all wondered about the various firmware updates for the Z series but it isn't often that we get the opportunity to actually compare them.

Does the KDL-40Z4100 have a two or three prong power cord?

I want to put this TV in a wall unit that only has two prong outlets that go to an inaccessible three prong wall outlet.

If it is three prongs, would it be safe to use a three to two prong adapter in this case?

Two prong

I've had my 46Z4100 little over a month now, and still impressed by the picture quality. There are a few things that I kinda wish would be resolved, like the occasional red smear trails I sometimes see. Also it didn't bother me at first, but the auto-dim during dark scenes is starting to get to me a little bit. Other than that, I think I found a keeper for a good 2 years or so, until something awesome comes out, or when LED-based LCD TVs are more mature.

Ok, I think I finally saw this red-smearing thing today during the NFC championship game. Sometimes, the Cardinals jerseys' would become pixilated and when they would move I could see little red trails. I don't know about you guys, but I plan to pester sony about this until something gets done (and I recommend that everyone else here does it, because as the old saying goes).

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Ya I have the same problem with pixilated reds during screen motion. I do seem to see it most when watching sports teams with red jerseys. I also plan on making a call to sony regarding this and a few other problems (audio drops using HDMI... I have updated to 202r and still have drops).

I agree... I think anyone who has any problem should call and list off all the items talked about in this thread and hopefully they will address it.

I agree Huttz. I've started this other thread so we can compile a list of issues that still remain in BE2 and some issues that may have even cropped up with their latest update.

I didn't really see this during the NFC game but I wonder if the trails/smears are another manifestation of motion judder/artifacting. I've seen that show up as a stutter with a slight "ghosting" especially on head movements. What firmware version are you running? Based on my testing, I really think that Sony screwed the pooch in regard to motion in it's firmware updates, especially 200 and 202r. It would be nice if, when an updated firmware was issued to fix a problem like sparkles, it didn't go backwards in areas that there was nothing wrong with.

Cal, did you see any of this on your newer (old firmware) set? i watched the game yesterday, and maybe ignorance is bliss, but i did not see any of this red smear at all on my set. (firmware 194r -- 1st firmware update and haven't done the last two since the set has been perfect (video wise) for me)

On the refurb with the stock firmware. To be honest, I've never seen the specific red "smearing" that others have with any firmware version but, again, I have seen what I could say are ghosts or trails on quick head movement at times. The stock FW and, to an extent, 194 seems to have less of this than 200 or 202r. If you're happy with 194 leave it be. It is clearly a winner for you. My feeling right now is that I won't go from stock FW to any update unless I really see some significant sparkles and so far with the refurb, I've seen none.

newbie here. i've just read through most of this thread, and am considering purchasing a z4100 at what seems to be a good price (1299). after all the problems (sparkle, viewing angles, autodim, intentional blurring, updates etc.), do z4100 owners regret their purchase all things considered ?

the red smear is probably the bane of this set, anyone contact sony about this? If this can't be fixed by firmware then i hope sony issues a fix. Red smear really isn't the fault of lcd technology as no other panel has this problem i really think this is a wcg bravia engine problem.

I find the red smearing to be very distracting. I've had the tv (46") for 4 months. I don't think I will ever get used to it. I regret spending the amount of cash I spent on it ($2300 back then). For that kind of money it shouldn't have a defect that constantly jumps out at you.

The auto dimming is also a deal breaker. When it happens you see it, and your first thought every time is, it looked fine before it auto dimmed, now it looks too dark. It usually occurs during one side of a conversation scene like in a dark restaurant. As they flip between persons talking, it auto dims on one person, then bright for the other person and then dim for first person again, and the biggest problem is that it takes about 1 second before it goes dim, so the scene starts out normal and then suddenly gets darker for no apparent reason, until you realize it is the the f***ing TV software doing it. And so it goes, bright, dim, bright, dim, until the conversation is finished!

Truly annoying.

But I also don't know what the alternatives are. Every TV on these forums seems to have it's problems. The state of large LCD tvs seems to be still in it's infancy.

I have a 19" Samsung LCD in the kitchen. No red smearing. No autodimming (infact no adjustable backlight at all) It looks fine, but I don't expect as much out of it either.

Have you played around with the ACE settings? A low or medium setting might help. With or without ACE on, however, I've not seen the kind of constant abrupt Auto Dimming that you are. I mostly see it on blank screens that darken or credit rolls. I actually wish that Sony had left the screen brightness after it dims as the default. It gives some nice black levels and hides panel imperfections.

I too only notice it in situations such as you describe. I've only had the TV for a few weeks but auto dimming has not been a factor for me in the viewing of normal content.

thanks for sharing and your thoughts. that's my take for now: "if ain't broke, dont' fix it!"

it could be that i'm just missing it. but i guess this is probably a good case of ignorance is bliss. i've very happy with the performance of my panel except for the low level hum/buzz. but again, that's partially due to the power at my house. my "return period" expires in a few days, but i've resigned to keep this panel because the picture, in experience, is without defect.

Your points are entirely vaild. Sony's release of three FW updates in a very brief time frame (194, 200, 202r) was confusing and, in its way, a bit disconcerting. The lack of any real substantive explanation in regard to the differences in the releases made it even more trying. I'm now convinced that if you don't have the issue that a firmware release is designed to correct, don't update. I think that we all got caught up in trying to find significant PQ differences in the releases and maybe did some rationalization as well. I've had all three updates on my original set and now have the refurb with stock and as I've documented, I cannot see a meaningful difference between stock and 202r. I had, in the sparkles thread, posed the question asking if any of us would have even felt that the Z's PQ could be improved if no firmware updates had ever been released. I'll leave everyone to answer that one for themselves but my answer is "wouldn't have even thought about it".

I do experience sound drop on my TV. If I upgrade the firmware, will it solve the issue? Or bringing other issue? Thanks.