or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Technical › EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide - Page 54

post #1591 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Damn, just missed an RCA ANT2000 on the bay for $30. It just occurred to me, I dont have a smart antenna interface. I sold the RCA 800.
post #1592 of 3314
Haven't been here awhile, looks like I have to plan some catch-up time.

I took a quick peek, and didn't see any reference to a Smart Antenna document I just spotted, so here's a link to the NAB final Report on the development work on Smart Antennas with Antennas Direct. It includes a picture of the prototype. Article is dated May 6, 2009, and titled: "Final Report - New Indoor Smart Antenna System Using a Single-Wire Interface"




http://www.nabfastroad.org/NAB_Final...ev_Public2.pdf
post #1593 of 3314
do you mean the one with the black stand? i think that one was discontinued, it wasn't amplified, and it was UHF only. Amazon still has it, but the only one you'll really find in stores now is the Terk HDTV-i and the HDTV-a. The one with the silver stand.
post #1594 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Thanks to ProjectSH089, and Steve at Antennas Direct Tech Support, Antennas Direct will be shipping out a ClearStream Convertible and a PA18 amplifier for testing and review.
post #1595 of 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazza View Post

... Just because the UFO lets you have an antenna position for every channel doesn't mean you have to program it for every channel.

Many places have only one or two antenna or antenna farm locations. So, a couple of gain/direction settings at most, is probably sufficient in most cases.

The problem is VHF chs in more than one location.
post #1596 of 3314
Thread Starter 
AntennaCraft 4 Bay G1483 Gray Hoverman on the way.

Ive got a CM 4221(American Made), CM4220(American Made), AD DB2, and a AD CS1 Convertible to test this against.
post #1597 of 3314
all my towers are in 1 spot with exception of a few independent stations
post #1598 of 3314
FYI: Ken Nist updated the HDTVPrimer Antenna Comparison webpage:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html
including recent updates to the new antenna webpage:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html
post #1599 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Thanks hollands, that is great stuff. My half assed testing confirms the placement of the C2 as just better than the DB2 for the new UHF spectrum. However the revelations on VHF Hi with regards to the C2 are new to me, though not unexpected. I have a VHF digital now at 45 miles on channel 7 to gauge VHF performance.

Thanks again.
post #1600 of 3314
Thread Starter 
I found this interesting......from the HDTVprimer page. Thanks holl_ands, and to Ken the HDTVprimer dude.

Quote:
Beam widths (to the 3 dB points, for channel 30):

ClearStream 2 72º
Silver Sensor 64º
DB2 56º
CM4221 55º


AntennasDirect ClearStream 2

This is an excellent antenna. It is roughly the same size and performance as the DB2. Since the DB2 is the reigning champion of indoor antennas, and since the “C2” is a tiny bit better, the C2 is the new champ. (The DB2 has more bandwidth, but with the new channel lineup this is no longer important. The DB2 would be stronger than the C2 if made a little bigger, but in relation to size the C2 would still win.)

AntennasDirect continues to think this is an outdoor antenna, and ships it without a stand. If you buy this antenna for indoor use, you will have to devise something to hold it up. If you are in a poor-signal area and are forced to use an indoor antenna, the C2, DB2, and 4220 are your best choices. The C2 is the only one of these without a poke problem around little children, so you should buy the C2.

This author continues to believe that a 4-bay is generally a better choice for an outdoor antenna.

The antenna elements are too small to have any response to VHF. And in case a really strong VHF signal sneaks in anyway, the UHF-only balun will filter it out.

Picture of the interior loops....



Gain comparison DB2 vs CS2...



Looks like the CS2 has better gain at lower UHF and a wider beamwidth than the DB2 across the spectrum. The CS2 may be a better solution for my roof. Hmmmm....

Great point about the poke-ability and little children for indoor use, making the CS2 a better option than the double bowtie DB2, but there is always the keep inside a cardboard or shipping box option.

See HDTVprimer page for abysmal performance of CS2 on VHF Hi.
post #1601 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Here is more good information from the HDTVexpert.com, on the CS1 and CS2 from Antennas Direct along with the Channel Master 2016 yagi, and an amped and unamped Winegard SS-1000/2000. He didnt have much success with the CS2 and CS1 on VHF either. The CS1 looks to have done very well with the CM 7777 amplifier....nearly as good as the CS2+same amp, at his location.

Five (Antennas) To Get Ready

PETER PUTMAN, CTS

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Five_Antennas.html
post #1602 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Interesting antenna from Antennas Direct in the works.

VHF Hi compact loop antenna.....the ClearStream5.



Quote:
Incorporating the same compact engineering which distinguishes the ClearStream family, the C5 is targeted specifically for the high VHF band. (Ch7-13 ; 174 -216 MHz) Purpose built for high VHF, the ClearStream 5’s efficient, compact design offers excellent gain and impedance matching across the whole post 2009 VHF DTV spectrum. The ClearStream 5 is superior to existing combination antennas for receiving VHF DTV signals and offering good directivity with a peak gain of 8.4 dBi.

This leap forward in efficient design allows up to 90% of the available broadcast signal to actually reach the incoming antenna cable rather than being lost to impedance mismatches. They are engineered for extra strength and durability, using anodized aluminum for corrosion resistance and are easy to assemble.

Intended to compliment existing UHF antennas, the C5 will include a low loss UHF/VHF signal combiner.

With 24% of the American DTV stations moving to a high VHF assignment there exists a need for high VHF antenna that is compact yet powerful.
174- 216 MHz (Channels 7 -13)
Max gain: 8.4 dBi VHF
Range: 65 Miles +
Impedance: 75 Ohm output F connection
Size: 20” h x 24”w x 6”d
90% efficient at 200 MHz 100% compatible with all ATSC tuners
Smallest high gain VHF antenna on the market
New Engineering for core VHF DTV frequencies (Ch 7-13)
East to Assemble
No Extra transformers needed
Lifetime Warranty
Assembly Instructions

Link to pdf Manual with Gain Chart...

Promising gains of 6db is pretty substantial over Rabbit Ears. Not too big at 20x24x6.
post #1603 of 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Interesting antenna from Antennas Direct in the works.

VHF Hi compact loop antenna.....the ClearStream5.





Link to pdf Manual with Gain Chart...

Promising gains of 6db is pretty substantial over Rabbit Ears. Not too big at 20x24x6.

Dan,

The C5 is the same outside dimension as the C4 with about 3 times the depth between the reflector and the active element.

It should be available in about 4 weeks (give or take).
post #1604 of 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I found this interesting......from the HDTVprimer page. Thanks holl_ands, and to Ken the HDTVprimer dude.



Picture of the interior loops....



Gain comparison DB2 vs CS2...



Looks like the CS2 has better gain at lower UHF and a wider beamwidth than the DB2 across the spectrum. The CS2 may be a better solution for my roof. Hmmmm....

Great point about the poke-ability and little children for indoor use, making the CS2 a better option than the double bowtie DB2, but there is always the keep inside a cardboard or shipping box option.

See HDTVprimer page for abysmal performance of CS2 on VHF Hi.

Ken over at HDTVprimer noted a few weeks back that the C2, for indoor use, needs a stand or mount. AD released a new version of the C2 two weeks ago that includes their 20-inch J mount (intended for outdoors use) called the C2-CJM on their website. While the current CJM isn't aesthetic for indoor use, it can be placed on a 6 X 6 base of the customer's choice and then will make a decent indoor antenna. Ironically, Best Buy in MEXICO will stock this version but not the US stores. ( I guess that BB-USA didn't want to pay a couple of extra bucks for the upgrade option). They are also working on a molded plastic base that will be both aesthetically acceptable and functional for indoor placement with a ready-to-use indoor package. Still in the works right now.

They are also looking at modifying the molding of the C1 & C2 base cone so that the coax cable is easier to attach and will not be strained laterally once attached.

For all the simulations that Ken has done on the ClearStreams, it appears that he has still overlooked incorporating (in his simulations) the publicly stated method of achieving a measure of high-VHF reception on these antennas - feed-line radiation. My own hands-on testing shows far better results than his simulations would suggest possible... If time permits, I may do some additional experimenting over the next week or two.
post #1605 of 3314
Why does AD insist on rating gain in dBi ?
post #1606 of 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Why does AD insist on rating gain in dBi ?

Why do YOU insist on something else? How do YOU rate the antennas from YOUR company. Oh, you probably don't have one (wish I did...)...

dBi is used by professional antenna designers and multiple antenna manufacturers, including AD, Blonder-Tongue, Wade, Dehli, and Televes as a technical specification. It is what it is.

I ran across a posting by the ower awhile back on one of the other forums (forget which one, perhaps one the Canadian ones) in which he answered this question. He concluded that arguing with forum posters who had their own opinions but no skin in the game wasn't a very productive use of his time and consequently doesn't usually bother....
post #1607 of 3314
I seem to have struck a nerve.
post #1608 of 3314
An engineer will poke dBi into a Gain/Loss Equation...or a Propagation Prediction Program
or most anything else related to antenna gain....because it's gain relative to a theoretical
antenna that would propagate in ALL DIRECTIONS EQUALLY....an "isotropic" antenna.
It's also what comes out of the NEC antenna simulation programs....

On the other hand, dBd is RELATIVE to the screwy (3-D donut) dipole antenna pattern:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Communi...stems/Antennas

So if an engineer tries to calculate the received signal level coming in from say 45-deg
elevation (a typical problem for aircraft and in H.F. band), it would involve taking
the antenna's specified dBd gain numbers and doing a 3-D recalculation to find
the requisite 3-D dBi gain numbers....bletccchhhh....

The REAL question is why do C-M and W-G (still living in the '50's) still insist on
using dBd when nearly every other antenna manufacturer has been using dBi?????
post #1609 of 3314
holl_ands,
Thank you for an explanation vs a rude personal attack.

I now have one more reason to not buy any products from antennas direct.
post #1610 of 3314
Thread Starter 
This one from Australia looks ugly enough to be a winner.

post #1611 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Just picked up one of these. Looks kinda like the RS 1880. We'll see how it stacks up.

post #1612 of 3314
All these amplified indoor antennas, do they really have the gain it claimson the box? there's one by RCA that says it has 55dB but i wonder if it's really true or not
post #1613 of 3314
If it really were 55 dB, it would easily overload your tuner's input....
post #1614 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Amplifiers are rated power at some distortion figure at a certain frequency into a load. These numbers can be manipulated.
post #1615 of 3314
It's probably 5.5 db

also, antennas don't uniformally detect signal - the peak gain might be 5.5 db (or 55db), but only on a specific set of frequencies.
post #1616 of 3314
Thread Starter 
Here is an interesting vintage UHF antenna. Bowtie style with a director and a reflector, it looks like.

post #1617 of 3314
the one that says it has 55dB is the RCA ANT1251
post #1618 of 3314
Thread Starter 
The Philips MANT510 does also.
post #1619 of 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Just picked up one of these. Looks kinda like the RS 1880. We'll see how it stacks up.

That thing looks a lot like an RS 1880. I wonder where they are getting it? I assume they are just resellers, since their Lava a468 looks to be a rebranded Cornet 645.

Did you ever find out the difference between the RCA ANT1400, 1500 and the ANT1600? I know the ##50s are the ones with the inline amp, but I've never found out how the new 1600/1650 is better than the 1500/1550. Even the RCA web site doesn't have the 1600 yet.
post #1620 of 3314
Thread Starter 
China, no doubt, Ive looked into importing some antennas myself.


The 1400 and 1450 are smaller than the 1500 and 1550. The 50 denoting an amplifier.

Maybe the 1600/1650 is even bigger, I dont know.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Technical
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Technical › EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide