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EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide - Page 57

post #1681 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:05pm
Thread Starter 
phil, I thought you had figured out a good solution already.

If you need more gain on VHF then I suggest an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13.



Its not huge though it is big (60 inch length) and can be mounted on a ceiling. Join to the DB2 via the UVSJ combiner.


Other than that, youve clued in on some of the better options for you, the RS UFO would be my favorite, but maybe you will benefit from the tighter beamwidth of the Philips Amplified Silver Sensor PHDTV3, or the Terk HDTVa.

Definitely go amplification, as that may help the Rabbit Ear VHF section enough to give you satisfactory receptionon VHF. Unless of course you go giant VHF Hi Yagi.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1682 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

phil, I thought you had figured out a good solution already.

If you need more gain on VHF then I suggest an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13.



Its not huge though it is big (60 inch length) and can be mounted on a ceiling. Join to the DB2 via the UVSJ combiner.

Mounted on a ceiling? How? Doesn't it need to stand up?

Speaking of VHF+UHF combiner, will Terk rabbit ears work even though I still can't get all the VHF channels (e.g., 11) by itself? Or do I still have to get a better antenna like Yagi's?

Is there a small one that does both UHF and VHF? Forget the splitter. Let's keep it simple and small.
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post #1683 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
I edited my post.

I forgot what you were using. DB2, Rabbit Ears, 3 splitters and what kind of combiner or amplifier do you have? You could get a distribution amplifier and maybe solve all your problems.

I remember you had poor ASTC tuner cards for your computer, too.
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post #1684 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I edited my post.

I forgot what you were using. DB2, Rabbit Ears, 3 splitters and what kind of combiner or amplifier do you have? You could get a distribution amplifier and maybe solve all your problems.

I remember you had poor ASTC tuner cards for your computer, too.

Yeah, I don't know if stronger antennae are going to help those old ASTC cards since my DTV Pal (2008) seems to work. I got them in late 2005. So far converter boxes seem to work.

I did some comparisons tonight with PC's HDTV tuners vs. [DTV Pal Converter Box]:

DB2 BOWTIE up in closet:
KCBS2 = 61-69% [91-93%]
KNBC4 = 96-100% [91-93%]
KTLA5 = 80-85% [88-90%]
KABC7 = 90-100% (sometimes not lockable at first) [low 90%!]
KCAL9 = 100% [91-96%]
KTTV11 = undetected from scan and can't lock [73-74%]
KCOP/UPN13 = 60-67% [73%-76%]
LA18 = undetected from scan and can't lock [73-74%]
KCET28 = 77-84% [85-93%]
ION30 = 100% [93%]
KOCE50 = 61-75% [90%]
KLCS = undetected from scan and can't lock [64-66%]


Same antenna at the same location, five splitters (even tried two splitters), and doesn't matter if coax cables are short or long. No amplifier and combiners yet.
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post #1685 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

phil, I thought you had figured out a good solution already.

If you need more gain on VHF then I suggest an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13.



Its not huge though it is big (60 inch length) and can be mounted on a ceiling. Join to the DB2 via the UVSJ combiner.


Other than that, youve clued in on some of the better options for you, the RS UFO would be my favorite, but maybe you will benefit from the tighter beamwidth of the Philips Amplified Silver Sensor PHDTV3, or the Terk HDTVa.

Definitely go amplification, as that may help the Rabbit Ear VHF section enough to give you satisfactory receptionon VHF. Unless of course you go giant VHF Hi Yagi.

So if I get a RS UFO, Philips Amplified Silver Sensor PHDTV3, or Terk HDTVa... I don't use my DB2 bowtie. Am I correct? I recall that all of these have powered amplifiers unlike my rabbit ears and DB2 bowtie? I was hoping to avoid more power plugs since I am running out of power sockets. Even turning on my old 20" CRT TV makes my UPS beep at me. LOL!
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post #1686 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:30pm
Thread Starter 
A little amplifier boost may help you. None of the UFO, HDTVa, Amplified Silver Sensor are going to be any better than your Rabbit Ears with an added Amplifier on VHF Hi.

You can also tune your Rabbit Ears to length.

How to Get More Out of Rabbit Ears.

Wave Length Table

Rabbit Ears come with new TV sets, are inexpensive, and easy to set up. On VHF they should be horizontal at 1/2 wavelength tip to tip The best length tip to tip depends on the channel. PLEASE NOTE: Actual best length of a dipole antenna is about 91% of that of 1/2 wave in free space, so to be precise about this, the lengths below are already reduced by approx. 9%. See this if you don't understand wavelength.

Channel # Frequency Ant Length Inch
Channel 2 (54-60 MHz) 102'
Channel 3 (60-66) 92'
Channel 4 (66-72) 83'
Channel 6 (82-88) 72'
FM (88-108) 57'
Channel 7 (174-180) 32'
Channel 8 (180-186) 31'
Channel 9 (186-192) 30'
Channel 10 (192-198) 29'
Channel 11 (198-204) 28'
Channel 12 (204-210) 27'
Channel 13 (210-216) 26'
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post #1687 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:35pm
Thread Starter 
Often VHF dipoles "Rabbit Ears" are 40 inches in length which makes for 80" total frome end to end stretched out horizontally, you can shorten these down to about 30" total and cover the VHF Hi spectrum more effeciently with better gain.

Hope that is clear and helps.
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post #1688 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

A little amplifier boost may help you. None of the UFO, HDTVa, Amplified Silver Sensor are going to be any better than your Rabbit Ears with an added Amplifier on VHF Hi.

You can also tune your Rabbit Ears to length.

How to Get More Out of Rabbit Ears.

Wave Length Table

Rabbit Ears come with new TV sets, are inexpensive, and easy to set up. On VHF they should be horizontal at 1/2 wavelength tip to tip The best length tip to tip depends on the channel. PLEASE NOTE: Actual best length of a dipole antenna is about 91% of that of 1/2 wave in free space, so to be precise about this, the lengths below are already reduced by approx. 9%. See this if you don't understand wavelength.

Channel # Frequency Ant Length Inch
Channel 2 (54-60 MHz) 102'
Channel 3 (60-66) 92'
Channel 4 (66-72) 83'
Channel 6 (82-88) 72'
FM (88-108) 57'
Channel 7 (174-180) 32'
Channel 8 (180-186) 31'
Channel 9 (186-192) 30'
Channel 10 (192-198) 29'
Channel 11 (198-204) 28'
Channel 12 (204-210) 27'
Channel 13 (210-216) 26'

Interesting link. I measured my antenna. It is 39" max for its metal(?) antenna ears so only down to channel 7, but then that's the lowest for the current VHF unlike previous analog channels. I am confused on how you control the lengths, which parts of the antennae do I change? The end, the beginning, or middle parts? The article got technical and didn't have pictures.

When I was testing my rabbit ears antenna, I found the best place was on my wooden room floor like http://www.kyes.com/antenna/rabbitearinhand.gif with Terk's rabbit ears: http://wbaldt.files.wordpress.com/20...t_ear_an_4.jpg ... However, its signals jump around too much. Also, I have to rotate for some channels. Here is what I found on Saturday night (not a full list):

KNBC4 = 100% _._ parallel with the desks.
= 80-85% \\/ on floor between desks (antennae face north and south) or _| among the front of the left desk on floor
KTLA5 = not detected from scan
KABC7 = 80%-100% _._ on floor
KCAL9 = 90%
KTTV11 = very weak _._ on floor
KCOP/UPN 13 = 80%-94% \\| right side of window frames

Even converter box had problems with rabbit ears. However, I never tried shrinking the lengths. They were maxxed out (39"). Much better with a DB2 bowtie.

Interferences from VCR, TV, computers were interesting. That's probably why DB2 did better in the closet and not on my desk and bookshelf. Same for rabbit ears being on my floor.
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post #1689 of 3229
6/15/09 at 11:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Often VHF dipoles "Rabbit Ears" are 40 inches in length which makes for 80" total frome end to end stretched out horizontally, you can shorten these down to about 30" total and cover the VHF Hi spectrum more effeciently with better gain.

Hope that is clear and helps.

I will have to try that since I never tried that (always use the full lengths). But which parts do I shrink from 40" from each side? The top part? Middle? Bottom? Or it doesn't matter?
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post #1690 of 3229
6/16/09 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Post your TVfool.com data link.

I don't know if that was directed at me, but I'd appreciate your advice. As you can see, most of the channels are to the North, but there are several connecting townhouses that direction. External antennas aren't allowed, either.

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post #1691 of 3229
6/16/09 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

Dan,

The C5 is the same outside dimension as the C4 with about 3 times the depth between the reflector and the active element.

It should be available in about 4 weeks (give or take).


So where is this antenna? I really need to try this with my C4.
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post #1692 of 3229
6/16/09 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierL13 View Post

Regarding Official Digital Changeover, West LA, 1 day after....

Crap ! Lost Channels 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1 with my Winegard SS3000. 1 week before the Digital changeover, and these channels came in fine, quite fine. 1st day after the changeover, did a rescan, and they were lost. (though I finally got 2.1 !) Have spent hours rescanning, moving antenna, everything I could think of. Gone ! Damn...

Newbie here, wth same problem here in Orange (at the Crush) on the kitchen Toshiba.

No way to connect to the outdoor antenna or ATT. Everything was great until June 13 using an old RS two bow tie indoor UHF (with slight directional adjustments for stations). Now 7.x, 9.1, 11.1, and 13.1 are gone with the return of these stations to VHF band.

Ran out a bought an RCA flat panel with amp at Wally-world which is supposed to be VHF-UHF and omni-directional and "smart" but only marginally works (lots of break-up) for some of the VHF and still have to move it around. 11.1 is still no-joy in any position. Going to return it today.

Suggestions welcome including links to other posts, threads, etc.
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post #1693 of 3229
6/16/09 at 10:30am
Not to sound like a meathead, but I would stay away from RCA. Over the many, many months of trying to find the perfect indoor antenna, RCA's were the worst for me. Taking into account that everyone's situation is different...

Ive tried most of the 'set-top', amplified antennas. And when I say most, I mean it. Including the much sought after radioshack 1880, too.

I'm worst case scenario at around 50 miles from the towers in downtown Chicago. And all I kept getting was advice from professionals, that my only viable option was the attic, or rooftop. Which isnt an option for me either (condo).

For me, salvation came in the form of the Terk HDTVa. This Terk antenna is simply perfect for me. I was getting a ton of multipath distortion, which this solved, and I get very solid signal strength. Better than anything else I tried. It is also better overall build quality than ninety-some-odd percent of what I tried, as well.

Keep in mind though, it is highly directional, so if you have multiple towers, spread out from on another, it is not the best option unless you want to move it, which isnt a big deal I guess. Luckily for me, most of the antennas are on top of the Sears tower.

So I can recommend that, at around $35. There is also a un-amplified, HDTVi, for about $6 less. But the Dual-Drive Amplifier in the HDTVa, should eliminate any reception issues with using an amplified antenna, when close to the towers. But you always have the option of the amp, if you move, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Amplified.../dp/B0007MXZB2
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post #1694 of 3229
6/16/09 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

External antennas aren't allowed, either.

If you have a private balcony and the antenna doesn't protrude over the balcony out into the open air, according to OTARD they can't stop you. A yagi might be problematic there, but a 4-bay external would rise up, not out, and would probably fit completely within your balcony. And they couldn't legally stop it.
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post #1695 of 3229
6/16/09 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbarbier View Post

So where is this antenna? I really need to try this with my C4.

Contact AD and see what they say.

Last I heard was that a small shipment was being sent in air freight sometime this week while the balance of the initial production run was being sent by ocean container and was due in around the end of this month.
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post #1696 of 3229
6/16/09 at 1:27pm
Although I am in the Boston market, I had been able to receive the New Hampshire stations. Now that post transition changes to frequencies, two of the NH stations have changed to broadcasting over their analog VHF-Hi frequencies (9 & 11) from the temporary UHF frequencies. To compound the change, they are now boradcasting at a much reduced power than before. I am supposed to be within their broadcasting range (30 to 45 miles away from their transmission towers) but now my Terk HTVa can't pull in the signal strongly. Also, the Terk HTVa rabbit ears aren't much good in terms of filtering out multi-paths so it is another factor in me not being able to receive the stations.
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post #1697 of 3229
6/16/09 at 4:05pm
In analog I used to get WMUR, WENH, and even the ION affiliate channel 21 in concord all very very watchabe. Also got the ION out of boston on channel 68, After 21 went all digital, haven't seen a blip on my reciever yet. Same for WMUR, and WENH.

I hear WENH has 4 channels all together, would be nice to pick those up, but obviously they don't care if people in Mass get them or not because they are New hampshire stations. We have WGBH and WGBX down here.

Don't go by the FCC coverage maps with the colored dots either, they're inaccurate.
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post #1698 of 3229
6/16/09 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post

If you have a private balcony and the antenna doesn't protrude over the balcony out into the open air, according to OTARD they can't stop you. A yagi might be problematic there, but a 4-bay external would rise up, not out, and would probably fit completely within your balcony. And they couldn't legally stop it.

Directly behind the house is a porch that's on ground level. There's also a hill, so it's not a good place for an antenna.
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post #1699 of 3229
6/16/09 at 8:05pm
I was hoping someone could recommend me an antenna. My wife and I just bought a house that is 100% concrete (Inside and Outside walls). We have not moved in yet (renovations will continue for a few more weeks) so I have not been able to try the reception. We life right outside Orlando, FL but do not want to spend the $50 a month for Cable TV, just internet for now. In the back of the house, there is a 10-12' pole with a outdoor light on it. I was thinking about putting a small antenna on it towards the top and running the cable along the outside of the house. It would have to be pretty minimal looking or my wife would not be too pleased. Any suggestions?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...663d6fcf3117b6
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post #1700 of 3229
6/16/09 at 10:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

I will have to try that since I never tried that (always use the full lengths). But which parts do I shrink from 40" from each side? The top part? Middle? Bottom? Or it doesn't matter?

Each side, the top, thinnest telescoping lengths slide in.
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post #1701 of 3229
6/17/09 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Each side, the top, thinnest telescoping lengths slide in.

Interesting for the channel 11 (KTTV) I can't get. I can tell if the lengths are too short that receipts are bad. I can tell little differences if the longest to one or two parts/pieces shorters in terms of signal strengths.

At _._ (180 degrees)

Parallel to the Mountains:
24-44% = 29'
33-44% = remove end/thinnest part.
39-51% (shutters closed)/49-65% = remove two end/thinnest part.

Antennae Pointing North and South (window's shutters closed):
44-67% = remove two ends/thinnest parts outside the closet.
43-49% = remove three ends/thinnest parts outside the closet.
48-61% = remove two end/thinnest parts in closet.

So would a combiner still help in this situation?
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post #1702 of 3229
6/17/09 at 1:18am
Thread Starter 
Phil, Im unclear if it has helped you, has it increased signal?

The antenna should be perpendicular to the transmission.....also you dont have to slide entire sections at a time, you can measure the distance from tip to tip for exact tuning to a particular channel.


From what I understand Phil of your complicated situation, is that you need to combine your DB2 with a VHF solution (as yet to be determined). If you are getting 50 to 70 percent on channel 11 with rabbit ears then a distribution amplifier plus a UVSJ will probably be a good solution for you. The key is to get enough of a signal that it can be amplified and stabilized in the signal window of the tuner.

An RS UFO or a Philips PHDTV3 Amplified Silver Sensor, or a Terk HDTA may offer success for you (may have good enough VHF dipoles and enough amplification to drive the system....but you will have to try that out. The RS UFO is available at Radio Shack and they have a very good return policy.

You sound like you may be getting multipath on VHF with the limited directionality of the Rabbit Ears. Amplification may help stabilize this.

So you basically have 3 choices.

1. Try the RS UFO integrated solution with your 5 splitters.

2. Try UVSJ and a Distribution Amplifier.

3. Upgrade your VHF antenna solution.

BTW a UVSJ will almost certainly help with the integration of your Terk TV1 rabbit ears and the DB2, much better than a regular splitter in reverse. The DB2 and Rabbit Ears are cross talking (including something similar to multipath) without filters to remove the designed off peak band signals. This could help improve your signals.

1. is easiest to try, minimum of cable rewiring etc.

2. is probably the best solution for you.

3. is probably the most pure solution for improving VHF performance, but that requires a much bigger antenna.


Im not sure how much multipath is a problem in the LA regional market. But the AntennaCraft G1483 Gray Hoverman is a fantastic antenna, and it along with an Amplifier could probably drive your 5 or 6 tuners and give you UHF and VHF performance.

At the end of the day, some experimentation and trial and error at the location is invaluable to finding the right solution. I can only offer suggestions for that experimentation and trial and error.
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post #1703 of 3229
6/17/09 at 1:25am
Thread Starter 
Jpowers those VHF are going to be difficult with only amplification and vhf dipoles to work with.

You need to get a length of coax and find sweet spots. A G1483 AntennaCraft Gray Hoverman with an amplifier may work well for you....it has wide beamwidth and bandwidth and decent performance on VHF Hi....but I think an amplifier will help you as well. Perhaps mount this in a North East facing window or attic. Another alternative is the EZ HD, its both UHF and VHF with about 5db gain across the spectrum but with tighter beamwidth.

Do you have any windows or balconies that face North or North East? Rooms on that side may be better as well for indoor placement, finding sweet spots etc.

Getting about 25 to 50 ft of coax to use to locate sweet spots seems like a good investment for you.
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post #1704 of 3229
6/17/09 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Phil, Im unclear if it has helped you, has it increased signal?

The antenna should be perpendicular to the transmission.....also you dont have to slide entire sections at a time, you can measure the distance from tip to tip for exact tuning to a particular channel.


From what I understand Phil of your complicated situation, is that you need to combine your DB2 with a VHF solution (as yet to be determined). If you are getting 50 to 70 percent on channel 11 with rabbit ears then a distribution amplifier plus a UVSJ will probably be a good solution for you. The key is to get enough of a signal that it can be amplified and stabilized in the signal window of the tuner.

An RS UFO or a Philips PHDTV3 Amplified Silver Sensor, or a Terk HDTA may offer success for you (may have good enough VHF dipoles and enough amplification to drive the system....but you will have to try that out. The RS UFO is available at Radio Shack and they have a very good return policy.

You sound like you may be getting multipath on VHF with the limited directionality of the Rabbit Ears. Amplification may help stabilize this.

So you basically have 3 choices.

1. Try the RS UFO integrated solution with your 5 splitters.

2. Try UVSJ and a Distribution Amplifier.

3. Upgrade your VHF antenna solution.

BTW a UVSJ will almost certainly help with the integration of your Terk TV1 rabbit ears and the DB2, much better than a regular splitter in reverse. The DB2 and Rabbit Ears are cross talking (including something similar to multipath) without filters to remove the designed off peak band signals. This could help improve your signals.

1. is easiest to try, minimum of cable rewiring etc.

2. is probably the best solution for you.

3. is probably the most pure solution for improving VHF performance, but that requires a much bigger antenna.


Im not sure how much multipath is a problem in the LA regional market. But the AntennaCraft G1483 Gray Hoverman is a fantastic antenna, and it along with an Amplifier could probably drive your 5 or 6 tuners and give you UHF and VHF performance.

At the end of the day, some experimentation and trial and error at the location is invaluable to finding the right solution. I can only offer suggestions for that experimentation and trial and error.

EV: It has gained KTTV 11, but also lost a channel (KTLA 5). However, I did NOT check every channels, only the ones I care for due to free time (was doing this after 11 PM!).

KTTV with Terk antenna ranged from 43% to 67% (72% was the highest converter box' value, not my PC's tuners]. At least it was locked on unlike my bowtie antenna which surprised me. Since you said "the antenna should be perpendicular to the transmission.", does bowtie have to be like that too. Right now I have it facing the mountains (reflector grid is behind the two >< parts that face the mountain [and that tree]). FYI, I have my rabbit ears upside down with 180 degrees in my closet. I stuck its middle part into the clothes holder. LOL. As for the lengths of antenna ears, it seems to do better with max lengths, even more 29" but closet can't go to 40".

I guess I could buy both combiner (didn't see an UVSJ there) and RS UFO antenna from there RS. Darn, amplified antennae require AC power too (have to find more power plugs (out of sockets even with all these strips and yay more heat too in my hot room [sometimes 85F!]) and I have to find a place. Where would amplified antenna be placed? In my closet near my DB2 bowtie? Same rules apply for rabbit ears (away from TV, VCR, computers, etc.)?

How does "much better than a regular splitter in reverse" work? Both antennae goes to output connectors and what does one input for the tuner? I did try plugging the other antenna to an unused output with the input, but that made no changes.

When speaking of amplification, how much amplified? Just curious? Is there concerns of overloading like on the good ones that have 90%+?

Others have told me that I am experiencing multipath because I live on a hill and had issues with analog feeds (fussy feeds on VHF channels and even some low UHF ones).
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post #1705 of 3229
6/17/09 at 8:19am
I Currently have the Phillips UHF only Silver Sensor.. can't seem to find anything on what I'm looking for...

Is there anything I can add or do that will allow me to Keep using this Silver Sensor and recieve my missing VHF channels?

Can't get KTTV.. assuming because it's VHF now as everyone has been pointing out.
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post #1706 of 3229
6/17/09 at 8:36am
For those of us having a problem receiving KTTV, 11.1, in LA, I found the following on Yahoo Answers from someone who contacted the station, FWIW --

"I'm in the same boat. I live in central Orange County and can't get it. I spent more than a half hour on hold with KTTV's help line and was told that they are working on the tower."

Apparently the station is aware of problems.

By the way, the RCA flat panel indoor antenna that I am returning to Wal-Mart is a model 1450B.
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post #1707 of 3229
6/17/09 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOnos View Post

For those having a problem receiving KTTV, 11.1, in LA, I found the following on Yahoo Answers from someone who contacted the station --

"I'm in the same boat. I live in central Orange County and can't get it. I spent more than a half hour on hold with KTTV's help line and was told that they are working on the tower."

Apparently the station is aware of problems.

Awesome news! Got the URL/link? Did they give an ETA to be fixed?

I will hold off buying a combiner, new antenna, etc. until then! Beside nothing on TV for the summer. :P
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post #1708 of 3229
6/17/09 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

Directly behind the house is a porch that's on ground level. There's also a hill, so it's not a good place for an antenna.

If you have line of sight problems you have to keep the antenna tilted so it's aimed over the object that's in the way.
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post #1709 of 3229
6/17/09 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Awesome news! Got the URL/link? Did they give an ETA to be fixed?

I will hold off buying a combiner, new antenna, etc. until then! Beside nothing on TV for the summer. :P

The link to the blurb on Yahoo Answers is --



Sorry you'll have to cut and paste, EV won't let me post a direct link.
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post #1710 of 3229
6/17/09 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOnos View Post

The link to the blurb on Yahoo Answers is --



Sorry you'll have to cut and paste, EV won't let me post a direct link.

Thank you.
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