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EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide - Page 67

post #1981 of 3229
Thread Starter 
post #1982 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Long story short, no, there wont be issues. The UVSJ (UHF VHF Signal Joiner) Combiner/Separator has filters which significantly reduce crosstalk, out of phase, negations between the antennas. The MANT300 will go into the VHF input and the Single Classic Bowtie will go into the UHF input.

Gotcha! Didn't think about hi/lo pass filters being in the joiner. Thanks!
post #1983 of 3229
Re: Mini-Fractal Antenna
Yup.....but must admit it has a certain artistic flair missing in the U-Tube antennas....
post #1984 of 3229
Quote:


a certain artistic flair missing in the U-Tube antennas....

Yep. Someone needs to do a Mandelbrot fractal antenna. Now, that would be pretty !
post #1985 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Holl_ands says....

Quote:


More Hi-VHF Antennas Analyzed...and Tested:

I analyzed and found "optimum" sizes for Hi-VHF Folded Dipole, Square Loop and Circular Loops:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/yagis
I also analyzed K6STI's 5-Element Yagi which is very compact and provides exceptional F/B Ratio.

Surprise!!! Folded Dipole (1/2-in Pipe) received CH7, 9, 11 and 13 from Mt Wilson (70-miles in L.A.):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/smart
It beat out the DX Antennas DTA-5000 and RCA ANT2000 Smart Antennas...but overall winner
was YA-1713.

In the attic (with lots and lots of metal in the way) the big YA-1713 and even bigger Stacked Zig-Zag
could only receive CH7 and CH9, but we're still searching for better attic locations...after it cools off some...
post #1986 of 3229
I should also add: a Low Power Analog is only 2.7 miles away on CH12, which causes adjacent channel
interference to CH11 and CH13....Fortunately, both of them plan significant power "maximizations".

Hi-VHF antenna is rotated to minimize Analog CH12 reception....and then hope for the best....
post #1987 of 3229
Thread Starter 


Made in Canada!
post #1988 of 3229
Thread Starter 
New antennas discovered...

Digitenna

Made in USA

Looks like some promising compact designs...centered on a properitary origami folded bowtie nick named "the DUV tail," with directors and reflectors, and corner reflectors, and a VHF Hi element in the back.....and integrated weather protected circuit board matching transformer baluns. Some of these could be slightly less gainful alternatives to the RCA ANT751 for those needing VHF Hi. I particularly like the promise of the Suburban and Metro antennas, but also the City and Indoor antennas. The City being even more compact, but giving up gain, and VHF Hi performance. The Suburban doesnt seem to really do much excpet increase the F/B ratio a bit and increases the low side of UHF band gain, and its not much larger than the Metro, just adding a small corner reflector for the bowtie....looks like a winner.

While giving a bit less gain and directivity than the RCA ANT751 on VHF Hi, the Digitenna Metro and Suburban are 12 inches shorter.

Patents pending.

pdfs...

Digitenna Brochure

Indoor Model - DUV-In

City Model - DUV-C


Metro Model - DUV-M




Suburban Model - DUV-S




Fringe - DUV-F




Deep Fringe - DUV-DF




Xtreme Fringe - DUV-XF
post #1989 of 3229
great find EV!

i just compared the specs of the DUV-S Suburban DigiTenna (pictured below) against that of the CM2016. if the figures are right, the DigiTenna is superior, despite its smaller size.

....and btw, MADE IN THE USA.


post #1990 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordloewelabs View Post

great find EV!

i just compared the specs of the DUV-S Suburban DigiTenna (pictured below) against that of the CM2016. if the figures are right, the DigiTenna is superior, despite its smaller size.

....and btw, MADE IN THE USA.



Yeah, I looked at the specs, and at the pictures.

That back element does not appear to be driven. It just appears to be riveted to the boom. Makes one wonder where the claimed hi-VHF gain is coming from.

Also... the brochures say that these antennas were tested at the Georgia Tech Research Institute, in their anechoic chamber. Now, I'm not an electrical engineer, but as I understand "anechoic chamber," that's a space that's designed to absorb and damp sound waves - compression waves in air. Can the EE's here explain to me what that has to do with testing an antenna's response to electromagnetic radiation? Is this a substantive claim, or is it specious jargon in this context?
post #1991 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Substanstative.....it absorbs radio waves, so as to isolate the source and antenna from reflective waves....so you can test the antenna without interference.

The rear element doesnt seem to be doing anything but reflecting VHF Hi transmissions back to the bowtie at the appropriate length more or less to do so (33 inches is a 1/2 wave at channel 7) and at an appropriate distance more or less for good VHF Hi reflection as well.

From what I understand.
post #1992 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Aha! Looking at the City Model specs the Duv Tail bowties are 21" wide.....prime territory for some VHF Hi gain as well as UHF gains tuned to the new more compact UHF television band.
post #1993 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordloewelabs View Post

....and btw, MADE IN THE USA.

Yeah, they're just north of Milwaukee, IIRC. The president of the company pops in at the milwaukeehdtv.org forums from time to time.

According to a recent post of his, business is doing pretty well for a smallish company.
post #1994 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Pics of the Digitenna Suburban in the wild.





post #1995 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Information on Digitenna...in pdf format.
post #1996 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Some more thoughts, the Indoor model looks good as well, I bet it performs at least as good as the Classic Single Wire Bowtie, but at 23" its much larger than it.

It looks like you can get the Suburban model and if you leave off assembling the corner reflector, you also have the Metro model. I think Im going to pick a Suburban model up for testing.

The balun box is like 3 inches wide, Im guessing so that makes the individual whiskers about 10" long each....which happens to be where mclapp ended up (or just under) on his optimization of the 4 bay whisker lengths for the new smaller UHF band Ch. 14-51.
post #1997 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Just picked up this classic vintage beaut! Corner reflector bowtie.

post #1998 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I think Im going to pick a Suburban model up for testing.

Note that it looks like they're trying to sell primarily through installers, and only allow the antennas to be sold for full MSRP online (no discounting involved).

I stumbled upon a YouTube seminar for installers (given in the Grand Rapids, MI area it sounds like) given by the DigiTenna president, and that seemed to be the business model that he's shooting for.

YouTube link (there's actually about 15 parts if you have some time to kill; some sales training, some technical)
post #1999 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the links and info NTN!

Ness Electronics and Skywalker seem to be distributors that are online.

BTW, that video is pretty darn good primer on digital television and aslo antenna design (starting about Part 10).

Ill check the rest out later.
post #2000 of 3229
Thread Starter 
He's wants to play with the big boys, Channel Master and Winegard. (RonC, someone sees oportunity like you).

Bullets from the video...


He says its a Batwing style antenna.

Folds increase surface area.

Length optimized for new smaller UHF bandwidth with an eye towards VHF Hi as well.

Balun box superior design and waterproofing, plus horizontal mount, for waterproofness and 90 degree coax trial away from balun.

Modular design, add or remove reflectors for less or more F/B ratio.

Amplifier balun module adjustible gain levels coming in 3 months or so.

Contemplating offering a mast mounted amplifier as well.

Possible Low Band antenna add on in the future....but not too enthusiatic about that (back burner).

I dont know if I agree with him about some comments about not needing good VHF Hi performance...but it was nuanced....mixed with some correct comments. (Part 13).

Seems to be down on Terrestrial Digital, but not using their name.....went on the dbd dbi rant, which is a dubious rant IMO, and also a head nod to the ClearStream Antennas not being VHF High antennas, but marketed as such....again without referencing them.

Figures from Georgia Tech tests....

Comparison of Winegard 9022 90" long average 9dbd UHF, -24dbd VHF Hi.......Digitenna DUV-F 53" long UHF 11dbd, 3dbd VHF Hi.

Winegard SquareShooter 1000 average VHF gain -29dbd.

Winegard 9083??? 50 inchish 8db average gain on UHF.

Really likes the CM 7777 amplifier. Doesnt like the Winegard 269 because it doesnt have an FM Trap, even though it has a high threshold of input overload. (EV says:Seems to me you can add an off board FM Trap if youve got FM troubles).

Rips the Magnavox CECB. Likes the Channel Master 7000.

RG6 cable man, prefers solid copper core.


Great video, covers a lot of installation and antenna amp cable tuner system design, plus terminology and theory. Really knowledgable fellow.
post #2001 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Seems to be down on Terrestrial Digital, but not using their name

What? The "They [the unnamed antenna company] are mostly a marketing company, not really an antenna company" quote didn't strike you as effusive praise?

While I wouldn't personally spend the $120 or so the Suburban-class models are apparently listed as (for one, I've almost got my UHF needs covered with my indoor homebrews - just need a little more work to get all my desired stations; my VHF-hi will require some more experimentation), he does seem like he knows his stuff, and I'd always like to see a Wisconsin firm do well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Winegard 9083???

PR-9018
post #2002 of 3229
I went and picked up the Terk HDTVa today, and for what its worth it pulls many stations my UFO didn't in the same exact position (believe me, I have played around with the UFO and pointed it every which way) and the stations are stronger. I was surprised since the UFO has a better reputation here, but I guess its true how your mileage may vary.

Now I am wondering if I should invest in some better RG6 cable than the one I am using (thin RG59). How much difference does quad shield make? I am using 25ft in order to place by the window pointing at the signals.
post #2003 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTNgod View Post

Note that it looks like they're trying to sell primarily through installers, and only allow the antennas to be sold for full MSRP online (no discounting involved).

YouTube link

i found his approach rather consumer-unfriendly.... the presentation is very interesting though. i recommend it to those interested in learning more about antennas. i played all 20 parts in the background, while browsing the web.

i would try the Suburban model if it were cheaper. the CM2016 is just 30-something on SolidSignal now. that's the one i ordered.
post #2004 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by haydeecm View Post


I went and picked up the Terk HDTVa today, and for what its worth it pulls many stations my UFO didn't in the same exact position [...]

Now I am wondering if I should invest in some better RG6 cable than the one I am using (thin RG59).

i tested both the UFO and the HDTVa for 10 days. i played a lot with both and found 2 sweet spots in my place where either could be used. overall, i liked the HDTVa better, though.... however, both antennas are great if you are near the transmitters. at the end i had to return them because multipath is a problem in my area.

regarding RG59, it should be avoided even at short lengths.... get cheap and good RG6 from Monoprice.
post #2005 of 3229
Thread Starter 
The Terk HDTVa doesnt have a bad reputation here. And yes YMMV, try to make that clear at every opportunity. Good to hear its working well for you haydeem.

I have a Digitenna Suburban on the way.
post #2006 of 3229
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I have a Digitenna Suburban on the way.

Where did you pick it up from? Ebay (I saw one on there that ended yesterday)? Ness/Skywalker/one of the other distributors?
post #2007 of 3229
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Now I am wondering if I should invest in some better RG6 cable than the one I am using (thin RG59). How much difference does quad shield make? I am using 25ft in order to place by the window pointing at the signals.

Good RG6 over good RG59 gives you +1db difference at 100ft at channel 51 and +.75db at channel 7 with a 100ft run.

You could probably realize worthwhile gains if you are on the edge of reception by going from a cheap RG59 to a quality RG6 at that length.

Belden 1694a RG6 has a great reputation
Belden 1505a RG59 also has a great reputation, but not as good of loss factors as the above RG6
post #2008 of 3229
Check with the sponsors at the top of the page for RG6. Monoprice has great prices!
post #2009 of 3229
Thread Starter 
post #2010 of 3229
Shoebox antenna is a simple dipole with a tin-foil reflector, hence the usual 4:1 Balun is not required.
[A Folded Dipole would need the usual 4:1 Balun.] And bandwidth is less than a bowtie.

A 1:1 Coax Balun could be added, but why bother since it only has one bay (less gain than a DB-2),
so short range only.

Outdoor 4-Bay looked pretty good except those tie-wraps are going to fall apart in a couple years.
Substitute some really heavy duty tie-wraps....or even better, use some very long screws.
And expect it to really whip around in high winds!!!!! Until it flies away.....
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