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EV's Recommended & Top Rated DTV Indoor UHF/VHF Set Top Antenna Review Round-Up Guide - Page 11

post #301 of 3240
Thread Starter 
That seems a little overboard for somebody who apparently cant spell egregious correctly, seatac.

But I aprreciate the sentiment.

Im still looking forward to some reviews from you, if/when you have the time.

One more note, when I re-did the balun on the Youtube Quad, I changed it out for an outdoor Genesis balun I picked up at True Value, I think its a bit better than the indoor one that came with the MANT510.....also I used a 12ft coax cable, others units have mostly been 6ft when tested, unless there was a power injector involved.

The Youtube is a pretty darn good antenna. I still plan on making an upgraded version with 10 or 12 gauge copper romex, larger bows and wider spacing between them.
post #302 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Winegard SS-3000


OK, I broke out the Winegard SS-3000, and its getting an upgrade from its current position, I had it pretty close though. That run through there is pretty tight. These units have an integrated amplifier. I set this one up on the window ledge in the center of the North corner window, for this test. Another note, this unit has thin coax, like the RCA ANT108, for one leg of the run, and a power injector, like the Philips MANT940 and RS DA-5200.

Everything from the RS 1880 down to the Youtube is pretty tight, and many have there own unique characteristics, such as beam width. And the HDTVa's heavy directionality may be hurting it in my tree infested location.

However, I must state that I have an RS 1880 on the other side of the house, under the giant oak tree and giant tin reflector roof pointed South! out of the windows and Im getting decent reception, but not really satisfactory. Maybe Ill try some other units out there.


Performance rankings.....based on EV's observations....Rough Guide

Channel Master 4220 with CM 7777 amp on roof
DB2 with Channel Master 7777 amp on roof
RS 1880
RCA ANT1500 "electrified"
RS DA-5200
RS 15-1892 UFO
DB2 unamped indoors
Classic Single Bow Tie
Winegard SS-3000
Terk HDTVa
Channel Master 4220 unamped indoors
My First Attempt at the Coat Hanger Antenna, Youtube Video Specifications unamped
RCA ANT108 (very similar to the RCA ANT110 and the Philips MANT110 and others)
Channel Master 4030
Philips MANT940
RS 1868 Delta
RCA ANT1020
RCA ANT1500
Philips MANT 510
Jensen TV-931
RS 1870


post #303 of 3240
EV, you're a crack dealer and you don't even know it. Yeah, on a whim, and with my girlfriend totally giving me the stink-eye, I brought home an 15-1892 from Radio Shack. She's about ready to stab me for how often we've bought and exchanged antennas. She doesn't understand my new addiction. She also doesn't understand that FOX Saturday Baseball was on this afternoon in hi-def.

Anyway, haven't done much with it except set it up on a bookshelf in our bedroom away from the window. It isn't pulling in any new channels, but every channel we were getting went from 2-3 bars to 4-6 bars on the DTB-H260F's signal indicator. Definitely seems to be very directional, but the internal rotation mechanism makes that comfy to deal with.

Honestly, the size isn't a problem. It's really not THAT big. Well, not if you've dealt with a silver sensor or a loop attached to an external amp *grin*

When my g/f starts talking to me again, I'll pick up 20-some-odd feet of coax and see how it performs closer to the window (and away from a computer and a stack of game consoles).
post #304 of 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by fajitamosaic View Post

The cheapie loop and amp OUTPERFORMS the Philips PHDTV3 Silver Sensor we were using in the living room.

I can't believe it.

Not to hugely dis the Silver Sensor. It works great. It's just the bottom-dollar antenna and cheapie-amp in tandem work slightly better.

Now try the Silver Sensor with the amp. I'll bet you find it outperforms the UHF loop on the other one.

By the way, if anyone's looking for a decent amp to try these with, Ace Hardware sells a generic 24dB one with adjustable gain that's not too noisy. I've used one with my Silver Sensor in the past, and the combo was great.
post #305 of 3240
Thread Starter 
:thumbsup

PS - You dont end up in the Radio Shack with The Starship Enterprise under your arm on a whim. No wonder you got the stink eye. LOL!
post #306 of 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

An Antenna is an Antenna, Right?

By Jim Burns • January, 2000

Home Theatre Magazine

Our DTV guru loads up three antennas and drives around Chicago to see how they behave.

Antennas are cool! Over-the-air analog- and digital-TV broadcast signals are the best-looking broadcast signals that I have going into my home theater system. Digital satellite can be good from time to time, but cable? Forget about it! The only problem with over-the-air signals is that the science of installing and picking antennas for good TV reception is all but lost. We haven't had any reason to put up antennas until digital TV came along, except for maybe the pure pleasure of telling your cable company to take a hike.

Terk HDTV60 VHF/UHF HDTV/DTV

Channel Master StealthTenna 3010 VHF/UHF HDTV/DTV

Channel Master Magnadyne Yagi UHF

http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/7/index2.html

Yeah, the StealthTenna performed very good in that review I remember. I read it when it first came out. I actually bought one after reading that, and it worked great for me at 41 miles out paired with a CM-7777. Didn't keep it, though. Got digital channel 3 for me, but was still having occasional minor audio droputs in the wind. I think I had over 10 feet on the mast above the roofline (and u-bolt) without any guy wires, so that was to be expected, since it gets pretty windy up here.

But it's analog VHF performance shocked me, it was so good. VHF-Lo had a few sparkles floating around, but VHF-Hi on up with both analog and digital could not have been stronger and clearer.

Didn't work nearly as good for me indoors, though. Had to get it out in the open and up in the air a little (I'm only 1 floor here).

If you're going to move up to larger, mainly outdoor models like that, you may as well try the Winegard Square Shooter, too. many people use them indoors, and they've always gotten pretty decent reviews. I'd suggest the unamped SS-1000 with and without one of your added amps (I think the amp in the SS-2000 is only about 15dB).
post #307 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Doesnt the SS-2000 come with a Winegard 269 amplifier?

Thanks for the info on the StealthTenna performance. VHF Hi, hmmmm....
post #308 of 3240
You might be right about that. Do you remember the power rating?

(Yes, the Stealth would be a decent choice for a lot of people not needing anything lower than VHF-Hi. But it does have a bit of a wind load. It's not what I'd call heavy, but it's probably not as light as it might look.)
post #309 of 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post

EV: Thank you very much for reporting your experiences with various indoor antennas and offering intelligent comparisons. Very, very few others have taken the time to make these comparisons. You are an intelligent human being who is keenly interested in high-performance home video, and your stories about various antennas are quite worthwhile.

Abundant thanks to you for your efforts.

I second that! Good job, EV!

And I wanted to tell you that the optimized photos are making a huge difference here. Thanks for doing that.
post #310 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Pics added Winegard SS-3000, Terk HDTVa, RS 1892 UFO with Remote. You can see the Winegard SS-3000 is kinda dusty.

Add here is one of the Draper Luma 92" projector screen.


post #311 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

You might be right about that. Do you remember the power rating?

I think its 12 or 13 db, but very clean.
post #312 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Im gonna leave the Terk HDTVa right where it is. Its doing and admirable job, and did better with dropouts tonight after the wind died down. Still having trouble locking onto my 2 weakest signals from Charleston at 45 miles.
post #313 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Here is a pic of the legendary RS 15-1880 and a close up of the back.




post #314 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Reworked the RE & Loop section on the front page, comments added/edited. Moved RCA ANT1020 and Channel Master 4030 from The Dugout to the RE & Loop section. Edited Table of Contents. Edited review of the Philips MANT940 and the MANT940 front page. Again sorry for the confusion.
post #315 of 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Reworked the RE & Loop section on the front page, comments added/edited. Moved RCA ANT1020 and Channel Master 4030 from The Dugout to the RE & Loop section. Edited Contents.

EV: your updates on the front page are very informative. I wish more publications would critically evaluate the performance of indoor antennas, which are bound to make a difference in this age of OTA DTV.

I'm particularly intrigued at the indication that a Channel Master 4221 could be used quite successfully indoors inside the cardboard shipping box. My prior experience was very good using this antenna indoors in my location, but the size made it ungainly to move and place inside my condominium. The idea that it could actually be used inside the cardboard box is intriguing. It's one of the few decent outdoor antennas readily available at a local retail outlet (McLendon Hardware sells it for a reasonable $25), not needing to be bought from an online vendor.
post #316 of 3240
First 'experiments' with 2 RS bowties gave mixed results.

I mounted the 2 bowties on one ear of a rabbit ears. I actually got my best results mounting 1 bowtie on each ear and spreading them out.

I'm 50+ miles out with a pretty clear line of sight to the towers.

I think a more scientific approach would give better results but in the end, I couldn't match the Philips Silver Sensor.

I'll try an upstairs TV next but it ain't looking good plus the setup looks a little sloppy.
post #317 of 3240
Thread Starter 
I picked that tip up in a thread on avsforum. Perhaps one you were actually involved in, I cant remember where to find it, so I cant credit its originator.

Bummer wblynch.
post #318 of 3240
The Antiference-designed Silver Sensor, licensed for manufacture and distribution in the USA to Philips and Zenith, is one of the most directional and specialized indoor antenna designs. It can require a lot of patience. For some users, it is the best possible indoor antenna, while for others it is frustrating.

Does anyone who has a lot of experience with the Silver Sensor care to offer some detailed evaluation points and answers to frequently asked questions?
post #319 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Ive got one on order. Ill review it when it comes in and probably rework the front page comments afterwards.
post #320 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Note to self, need to look at and possibly expand/edit comments on CM4220, RS UFO, Terk HDTVa and Winegard SS-3000 on front page.
post #321 of 3240
my experiences with amplified antennas here in NYC may be interesting:
most rabbit ear and loop antennas don't work at all, except for one or two very strong stations such as WABC.
The RS single bowtie works ok, but constantly adjusting it was a p.i.t.a.
the RS 1892 (UFO) didn't work very well, one was dead on arrival right out of the box, the second was very mediocre. The 15-1880 was terrible as well.
the Mant 510 was awful.
Terk HDTVa is a piece of junk, could only receive one station.
Silver Sensor is fantastic, but has no vhf, will need vhf capability when 7,11, and 13 return to vhf in 2009.
although I agree the Philips PHDTV3 is a piece of junk ( the way the rods fit into the back is off kilter and bumps into the main "triangle") it actually works quite well in my particular location, and in general is a better performer than the original Silver Sensor with a cheap RS 10db amp.
post #322 of 3240
Thread Starter 
That is very interesting Roger. Ill try to analyze that later. It just goes to show you that antennas can be very tricky. Visiting the local reception threads and asking others that are nearby what has worked for them is a good way to key in on a good antenna for your particular situatioin.

You can get rabbit ears and a VHF/UHF signal combiner to use along with your amped PHDTV3 Silver Sensor, come Feb09, perhaps.



Edited/added comments on Winegard SS-3000 and CM422o on front page. Need to address RCA ANT1500 with more testing, Terk HDTVa, and RS UFO on front page still.
post #323 of 3240
Okay, no one mentioned this one yet? (This is a very inexpensive picture frame antenna--the RS 150-1866)

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

At $15, I'll test it out myself vs the (unamplified) TERK HDTVi, the Philips Mant 510 and that RCA pair of loop rabbit ears on the front page if my local Radio Shacks have one in stock.
post #324 of 3240
Thread Starter 
That sounds great allargon.
post #325 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Ive noticed that the Terk HDTVa is really touchy and sensitive to placement. Also, if I tip the front section upwards a little towards the gap in the trees toward the Charleston towers it does a little better.

Iv noticed that windy conditions and trees seem to be limiting the effectiveness of all 3 outdoor antennas on the roof. The DB2, CM4220, and Winegard 4400 all have dropouts associated with wind. However the Winegard seems to have the most gain, bringing in stronger signals on my 2 weakest Charleston stations, however, not enough to overcome breezy to windy conditions...this isnt a function of gain but rather signal direction stability, the leaves and branches scattering the signal about. The CM4220 similarly has more gain on my weakest Charleston stations, than the DB2, but it cant overcome breezy to windy conditions.

The directionality of the Terk HDTVa is not helpful for this situation, but may provide more gain where trees are not a problem than some other antennas, as well as where stable multipath is a problem. Similar to the highly directional high gain xg91 that I replaced with the DB2.

I think Im gonna choose the Channel Master 4220 for the final roof install....for the following reasons.

Its smaller than the Winegard 4400.
Its tougher than the 4400, steel instead of aluminum, and thicker steel where applicable. Nice powder coated galvanized steel reflector.
Its has larger bows than the DB2....although I really like the thick 4mm aluminum bows on the DB2.
Its seems to have slightly more gain that the DB2, especially handy on my 2 weakest channels.
It has dual mounting brackets instead of just one....this is really a minor consideration as the DB2 did just fine.

Additionally, I tried the Winegard 4400 without the Channel Master 7777 amplifier, and it just wasnt doing the trick, though it was better than many of the indoor antennas Ive tried.

Im thinking of trying some indoor antennas, sitting on top of the chimney attached to the CM Titan 7777 amplifier where applicable and with the 50ft run of quad shield copper on steel RG6. Just to see how they do.
post #326 of 3240
Roger: I have heard all sorts of horror stories with digital reception in the NYC area. You guys are in multi-path hell it sounds like (skyscrapers, lots of buildings, tons of stations broadcasting).

EV: I bought a 25-foot length of quad shield coax from the rat shack today. Moved the 15-1892 UFO closer to the window and about 1 foot higher. Excellent results. Getting 6-8 bars on the signal meter across the board now. Was getting 4-6. Couldn't get WKAR PBS's 4 channels with it deeper inside the room. Now getting WKAR with 4-5 signal strength since relocating the antenna closer to the window. Best of all, I only needed to setup one alternate position setting for the FOX affiliate's signal.

Hands down, these are the strongest signals I've managed to pull in with any of the antenna combos I've tried in that room. I'm done buying antennas. The "starship Enterprise" is the winner in my lowly basement apartment.

... and I've come to learn that if we simply lived one floor higher, we probably wouldn't have had any hassles. Height sure is important.
post #327 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Sounds Great! :thumbsup

I suppose you signal meter goes from 0-10? Does 6-8 lock in your channels without dropouts?
post #328 of 3240
Thread Starter 
Here is my TVfool info for digital channels. 36 WMMP (real channel 35) is my toughest station and its not showing on the digital list for some reason.

post #329 of 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I suppose you signal meter goes from 0-10? Does 6-8 lock in your channels without dropouts?

Yeah, the meter on the Samsung DTB-H260F shows 10 bars much like a lengthened cell phone style indicator. In general, 5 bars seems to be the point at which I get no dropouts (4 is tolerable tho). So, 6-8 is a huge leap in stability compared to 4-6.

The Zenith DTT901 we have in the living room uses a horizontal bar that fills to show you signal strength. It grows in finer increments than the Samsung's meter does, which makes it easier to see how much a signal is improving.

At some point I may try the UFO with the Zenith, but I already know what'll happen: The Zenith has a more sensitive 6th-gen tuner AND the window ledge out in the living room is bigger, giving us the freedom to place it right next to the glass. Reception will be MUCH stronger than it is in the bedroom. That's why I've got the amplified rabbit ears out there and the UFO in the bedroom

I will say, I know with these boxes it's apples to orange with regards to tuners and signal meters, but the Zenith coupon-eligible box almost makes grabbing and measuring relative signal strength a fun endeavor. Even when I can't pull in distant or low powered stations like WHTV and WNEM, the signal indicator on the Zenith still shows about 30%... a nice reminder of "Hey, there's a signal there!"

Edit: Wow, your TV Fool info is a nightmare. I'm 15-20 miles from most stations. You're 20, 30, 40, and 60! You must live out in the styx for some of these smaller antennas to work. Even in our less-traveled part of the city, we've got plenty of noise and buildings to contend with.
post #330 of 3240
Thread Starter 
I can pick up WSAV channel 3.1 (real channel 39) Savannah GA sometimes, its the most powerful singal coming from Savannah. And I like to use Channel 11 analog(real channel 11) to check for analog VHF Hi performance.

Its flatland around here. Also the towers at Charleston as the crow fly's crosses a water body, the ocean for about 25 miles....however this is a mixed blessing, the instability of the air along the shore isnt good for broadcast signals. My real problems are the local yard trees, though.
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