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Do you want a neutral and correct speaker? - Page 13

post #361 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 View Post

Open baffle speakers have no box. They are simply a plank of wood (baffle) with drivers mounted. That's why I suggest they are good value for money and very easy for anyone with some basic tool to make.

Simple to build but an order of magnitude more difficult to design than a conventional speaker. The science has only just recently started to develop, so most designs have no solid theoretical basis, including %95 of the ones at diyaudio.

But otherwise I agree with you, they do have an appeal and you'll start seeing a lot more OB designs from the mainstream manufacturers in the future.
post #362 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

...each of us will hear things differently. Meaning, my "neutral" is not your "neutral".

Neutral is a reference and it's the same for everyone.
post #363 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

What is "Neutral" anyways? Its a purely subjective word only because we all have individual tastes and each of us will hear things differently. Meaning, my "neutral" is not your "neutral".

So if you and I were sitting in a room listening to a violin, or a guitar or a flute, or drums, or a female vocalist, wouldn't you want a speaker that reproduced the sound just like we heard it in the room? If you're looking for something other than the sound of what you heard in the room, then I guess your neutral is definitely not my neutral.
post #364 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

That's right. I invented the Salk vaccine.

On the subject of measuring detail--it's really tricky. The waterfall plot might seem like the logical candidate--but electrostatics and planars tend to produce very chaotic plots. I'm not sure we know enough to "design in" detail. You just hope that it will be one of the benefits of following good speaker design in general, and selecting good drivers.

Dennis I was wondering what you consider to be some of the best drivers in terms of detail? Have you ever heard the Harbeth Radial driver that they develop in house? I was just floored by the amount of detail and separation that driver could put out in the Super HL5 speaker.
post #365 of 511
There's no such thing as a neutral and correct speaker once it's outsid of an anechoic Chamber.
post #366 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

So if you and I were sitting in a room listening to a violin, or a guitar or a flute, or drums, or a female vocalist, wouldn't you want a speaker that reproduced the sound just like we heard it in the room?

Nope. I want it to sound as if we were in the room where the performance occurred. Bump it up to a 100+ musicians in an orchestra and ask if you want them all crammed into your room or if you would prefer to hear them in a concert hall environment.

Quote:


If you're looking for something other than the sound of what you heard in the room, then I guess your neutral is definitely not my neutral.

Your goal cannot be accomplished with recordings not made under anechoic conditions, btw.
post #367 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope. I want it to sound as if we were in the room where the performance occurred. Bump it up to a 100+ musicians in an orchestra and ask if you want them all crammed into your room or if you would prefer to hear them in a concert hall environment.

Sure, I'd like it to sound as if I'm sitting in that concert hall environment, which should be the point of "music in the round", no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Your goal cannot be accomplished with recordings not made under anechoic conditions, btw.

Understood. My point, perhaps poorly expressed, was that I want the tonality or sound of the instruments to be maintained. A speaker that emphasizes one spectrum over another (my definition of non-neutral) cannot get the tonality right. As JGH used to say (and I'm paraphrasing), music resides in the midrange and one that cannot get it right is not worth listening to (OK, heavy paraphrasing).
post #368 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope. I want it to sound as if we were in the room where the performance occurred. Bump it up to a 100+ musicians in an orchestra and ask if you want them all crammed into your room or if you would prefer to hear them in a concert hall environment.

Kal is correct. And if you've ever eaten with a musician, you would certainly not want 100 of them in your living room. Hide your stash, too.

Quote:


Your goal cannot be accomplished with recordings not made under anechoic conditions, btw.

Good point. Otherwise, you would overlay the sound of your room on top of the sound of the recording's venue. All you need on top of that is a Yamaha DSP-1 set to "parking garage" mode to simulate the sound of a concert hall, moved to a parking garage, played back in your reverberent room.
post #369 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Understood. music resides in the midrange and one that cannot get it right is not worth listening to (OK, heavy paraphrasing).

You just kicked most of the speakers that have ever been made to the curb!

I guess you won't like OLD speakers like the Horn loaded Electrophonic speakers I have in my room which have that
"old fashoned sound" I think they are moe suited for tube than solid-state as they have a heavily "colored" midrange sound.

I guess older recordings are also exempt from evaluating a speaker seince they are very colored (especially the 40's -early 70's recordings)
post #370 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

You just kicked most of the speakers that have ever been made to the curb!

I guess you won't like OLD speakers like the Horn loaded Electrophonic speakers I have in my room which have that
"old fashoned sound" I think they are moe suited for tube than solid-state as they have a heavily "colored" midrange sound.

I guess older recordings are also exempt from evaluating a speaker seince they are very colored (especially the 40's -early 70's recordings)

Where to begin?... Not worth effort.
post #371 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by david-me View Post

Yes, yes, yes Silly !

The newer Rap and R&B are the only recordings worthy of testing high quality speakers. The Irony is that "most" of the people that listen to this music, are usually financially handicapped/retarded

What does the lyrical content of the music you listen to have to do with Social status/Intelegence/race etc?

Rock ,folk music and electronica is good music to audition good speakers and so is rap and R&B.

I am a smart person (who acts silly) who listens to music some peoplw would think I am "gay" or "weird" to listen to.

Teen pop (mostly female) people think I am weird or worse gay for liking it
Rock (both male and female)
Folk-rock/acoustic (mostly female)
classic rock
R&B ( both male and female)
Rap (mostly southern and mainstream)
Metal (both male and female)
Eurodance/Trance pop (mostly female) Most people think I am gay fror liking it.
Hiphop
Trance
Punk rock (mostly female)
Religous music - (not my thing)
Christain rock (not my thing either)


The size of the speaker box influinces how given drivers will perform in a certain application.
post #372 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

What does the lyrical content of the music you listen to have to do with Social status/Intelegence/race etc?

Rock ,folk music and electronica is good music to audition good speakers and so is rap and R&B.

I am a smart person (who acts silly) who listens to music some peoplw would think I am "gay" or "weird" to listen to.

Teen pop (mostly female) people think I am weird or worse gay for liking it
Rock (both male and female)
Folk-rock/acoustic (mostly female)
classic rock
R&B ( both male and female)
Rap (mostly southern and mainstream)
Metal (both male and female)
Eurodance/Trance pop (mostly female) Most people think I am gay fror liking it.
Hiphop
Trance
Punk rock (mostly female)
Religous music - (not my thing)
Christain rock (not my thing either)


The size of the speaker box influinces how given drivers will perform in a certain application.



LOL

This is where the "most" comes in. And as rap is not targeted towards towards the well-to-do living in suburbia (agreed?) ... I was not insulting intelegence, social status or race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

The size of the speaker box influinces how given drivers will perform in a certain application.

so which is better, the Bose speaker cubes or those huge KLH loudspeakers ???

TIC
post #373 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

What does the lyrical content of the music you listen to have to do with Social status/Intelegence/race etc?

Rock ,folk music and electronica is good music to audition good speakers and so is rap and R&B.

I am a smart person (who acts silly) who listens to music some peoplw would think I am "gay" or "weird" to listen to.

Teen pop (mostly female) people think I am weird or worse gay for liking it
Rock (both male and female)
Folk-rock/acoustic (mostly female)
classic rock
R&B ( both male and female)
Rap (mostly southern and mainstream)
Metal (both male and female)
Eurodance/Trance pop (mostly female) Most people think I am gay fror liking it.
Hiphop
Trance
Punk rock (mostly female)
Religous music - (not my thing)
Christain rock (not my thing either)


The size of the speaker box influinces how given drivers will perform in a certain application.

It is better to remain silent and have the world think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
post #374 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMAN21 View Post

It is better to remain silent and have the world think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

He's got more than 1700 posts, the majority of them drivel similar to the post you quoted and he's been called out on them many, many times (like you did). He is immune to criticism and his goal in life seems to be how many stupid comments one can make on a board and still survive to post. Well we know the answer is more than 1700...and counting.

He claims to be going to college (maybe the college of hard knocks?) as it appears that writing coherent sentences that aren't littered with mis-spellings is not taught at his college.
post #375 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMAN21 View Post

It is better to remain silent and have the world think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Though I think its too late; the world already knows which category he's in. LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

He's got more than 1700 posts, the majority of them drivel similar to the post you quoted and he's been called out on them many, many times (like you did). He is immune to criticism and his goal in life seems to be how many stupid comments one can make on a board and still survive to post. Well we know the answer is more than 1700...and counting.

He claims to be going to college (maybe the college of hard knocks?) as it appears that writing coherent sentences that aren't littered with mis-spellings is not taught at his college.

Harsh but straight to the point (of truth). So how many more posts before he's gone? My guess - infinite.
post #376 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Though I think its too late; the world already knows which category he's in. LOL!

Harsh but straight to the point (of truth). So how many more posts before he's gone? My guess - infinite.

The other thing about him is that when called out, he just ignores it and moves on to the next inanity. It's kind of a "hit and run" approach.
post #377 of 511
What does music preference have anything to with evaluating speakers? If a person wants to spend $20000 on a pair of Wilsons, B&W, Dynaudio, Revel, etc. to just listen to Rap does that make them ignorant or stupid?
post #378 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by VectorLabs View Post

What does music preference have anything to with evaluating speakers? If a person wants to spend $20000 on a pair of Wilsons, B&W, Dynaudio, Revel, etc. to just listen to Rap does that make them ignorant or stupid?

LOL, everyones got their panties in a bunch!

I dare to say that "most" of those with an extra $20,000 to blow on speakers, are not listening to rap; sports stars and rappers aside. Never did anyone say anything about it making anyone ignorant or stupid or anything else. Capiche? Let it go!
post #379 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I am a smart person

And the fact that you actually believe that makes you even more pathetic that we ever imagined. Keep up the quality posting you moron.
post #380 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

The other thing about him is that when called out, he just ignores it and moves on to the next inanity. It's kind of a "hit and run" approach.

Actually Tony while you are 100% correct that Raymond is a spineless pu$$y who does not have one bit of self respect or any balls to try to stand up for himself he did worse that that.

I called him out in a thread and he actually started another thread crying to the members that someone called him some names. So, while ignoring it is one thing, starting a new thread in hopes of getting sympathy from others here is the lowest of the low, particularly when he deserved it.

Whatever. It's never going to change...
post #381 of 511
I must have missed that thread. I'll have to look for it and maybe add my two cents .
post #382 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david-me View Post

I dare to say that "most" of those with an extra $20,000 to blow on speakers, are not listening to rap; sports stars and rappers aside. Never did anyone say anything about it making anyone ignorant or stupid or anything else. Capiche? Let it go!


My speakers cost around 20K new (got them used) and I listen to rap, metal, pop, jazz, blues, almost anything. So what is strange about that?
post #383 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

My speakers cost around 20K new (got them used) and I listen to rap, metal, pop, jazz, blues, almost anything. So what is strange about that?

I said "most" not "most except for NIN74" I presume nothing. stop trying to pick a fight. Drop it !
post #384 of 511
Thread Starter 
Well, I'm not picking a fight but if you say those things you have said, I will tell you that you are way of base.
post #385 of 511
I am NOT way of base... I said most. not all! understand?
The rap industry itself knows that its target audience is inner-city youth, not all of its audience. you are a member of the minority...( so-to-speak) and you will find a large amount here as this is an audio-enthusiest forum. Thoses that do not have a lot of money and/or do not have internet access, and/or are not audio enthusiests...etc... are not here.
Whatever.... I am done with explaining myself.
Peace.
post #386 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

The other thing about him is that when called out, he just ignores it and moves on to the next inanity. It's kind of a "hit and run" approach.

You are correct. I would imagine that's because there is no foundation of knowledge and experience to back him up, so he just runs when confronted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Actually Tony while you are 100% correct that Raymond is a spineless pu$$y who does not have one bit of self respect or any balls to try to stand up for himself he did worse that that.

I called him out in a thread and he actually started another thread crying to the members that someone called him some names. So, while ignoring it is one thing, starting a new thread in hopes of getting sympathy from others here is the lowest of the low, particularly when he deserved it.

Whatever. It's never going to change...

Wow...that is lame.

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I agree with David. Rap is not always well recorded, so its probably not the best genre to use for testing speakers. The same can be said for rock and heavy metal (of which I am a big fan of; I own many rock and metal albums). Getting back to rap, it's also a genre with unrealistic, exaggerated bass. IMO bass doesn't sound anything like that in real life when compared to a string bass or other instruments such as a kick drum. It's artificially made to sound that way on purpose. Again, not the greatest tool to use when searching for loudspeakers. Perhaps it would be better suited while searching for a subwoofer.

P.S. In my statement above I never said anyone was ignorant, by the way.
post #387 of 511
A subwoofer is a loudspeaker.
post #388 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

P.S. In my statement above I never said anyone was ignorant, by the way.

LOL, I'm with you in that I am not diggin' these poeple trying to words in your mouth
post #389 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

A subwoofer is a loudspeaker.

That depends what you have the volume set on..?

I keep my sub quiet, else it will wake the kiddo's! So I guess I have a softsub. Yummie, sounds like something I could get at subway after a dentist visit
post #390 of 511
Any old speaker will do if you want nuetral sound. High resolution tweeters will tend to be on the bright side.
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