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Do you want a neutral and correct speaker? - Page 3

post #61 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

See Nin, you still aren't making sense, because I said something very similar in my thread about no speaker being perfect, and you said you disagreed. Make up your mind man - you make no sense!

Edit: here is the conversation we had starting on page 70 of my speaker thread:

I said this:


And then you said:


Finally, you said this:


Even though your responses pretty much make no sense at all, almost as if you misunderstood what I wrote, you still clearly disagreed with me. But then in the last post you practically echoed what I said (in your own special way), but then say that the same sound signature will come through all speakers on all records? Whaa??? Do you mean you'll still hear the sound from the record no matter what speaker it is being played through?

So which is it going to be, NIN? First you disagree, but now you agree? But then you disagree...or wait...did you agree again? I can't even follow this. Do you change your opinions based on the days of the week?

All right - that's enough for me. I just wanted to point out that NIN likes to argue and has a track record of coming into good solid threads and getting them closed. That's not my intent here, but at least now he knows how it feels. Please don't fall into his "game." I'm out!


What is so hard to understand? That no speaker is 100 % perfect but some are much more CORRECT than others. A speaker that ads a lot of distortion and have a big old dischobump in the bass will NOT reproduce the music correctly.

I don't like to argue but when some people don't understand the most basic thing about high fidelity, one must correct them.
post #62 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

So NIN.... you never answered my questions on page one.... Have you ever measured your supposedly accurate and correct speakers in YOUR room? What kind of FR do you get from them? What kind of distortion?

And.... if you prefer a speaker with zero coloration or a ruler flat FR.... how is it that you prefer tube amps that are full of coloration and distortion? Or, do you prefer a ruler flat FR on a speaker so that it accurately reproduces all of that coloration and distortion from a tube amp?

Not trying to flame here.... I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what it is you are saying. Like Nuance, I'm a bit confused by some of your statements sometimes.


Yes, I have measured them in my room and will soon fix the problems my room have now (for exampel a bass peak at around 35Hz).
The distortion from these speakers are lower than from others I have listen to under controlled forms.

Well, zero distortion is just a dream, but VERY low distortion is something I can get, at least with this set-up. And the FR will not be 100% flat, but that is another issue. I do not own a tube amp now and are not missing the massive distortion, coloration and limited power I had then.
post #63 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david-me View Post

I am not sure if NIN74 understands that even if you had 2 completely different speakers, and in a vacuum were to measure flat (+/- .01db) from 20hz to 20khz, the moment you put them in any room, both speakers would change dramatically and differently.


Well, I don't think you understand that if the source is great, it is much easier to fix the end result. For exampel, do you don't care if you blu-ray player is bad, just because the projector and screen will effect the result? Off course not. Same with a speaker. Whatever room you will put them in, the distortion will not be smaller than what the speaker are capable of.
post #64 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

What is so hard to understand? That no speaker is 100 % perfect but some are much more CORRECT than others. A speaker that ads a lot of distortion and have a big old dischobump in the bass will NOT reproduce the music correctly.

I don't like to argue but when some people don't understand the most basic thing about high fidelity, one must correct them.

Oh, I understand - more than you ever will. But when you make absolutely no sense when you post, people will find it hard to determine just exactly what you mean. Just re-read your posts and you'll see what I mean. If you still don't see the problem, take an English language course.

P.S. You still contradict yourself a LOT. So it is you who doesn't understand even the simplest things, not me.
post #65 of 511
This thread is WAY too amusing and confusing.

In the first corner of the room we have people saying that a speaker that has a flat frequency responce is the best-sounding speaker. But then that raises another issue, it the speakers are completely "flat" sounding, wouldnt that man that the speaker is "shy" SOUNDING across the full fequency range? And for the record there is no such thing as a completely flat speaker.

in the second corner of the room we have the people who are saying that a good speaker Has a bowl shaped FR if plotted out on a graph. But that raises another issue, if that is so then wouln't the speaker be less accurate.

In the third corner we have people who are saying that a speaker that has a boosted midrange is the better speaker. That also raises another issue, if there is too much midrange the speaker wwill sound king of tubby or the voices of certain singers will seem to "pop" out too much.

In the fourth corner of the room we have people who don't care either way as long as the speaker sounds "good".

In the middle of the room we have pulliam ranting about his speakers that have sharply peaked midrange, bass and treble turned up and a High THD.
post #66 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

This thread is WAY too amusing and confusing.

In the first corner of the room we have people saying that a speaker that has a flat frequency responce is the best-sounding speaker. But then that raises another issue, it the speakers are completely "flat" sounding, wouldnt that man that the speaker is "shy" SOUNDING across the full fequency range? And for the record there is no such thing as a completely flat speaker.

in the second corner of the room we have the people who are saying that a good speaker Has a bowl shaped FR if plotted out on a graph. But that raises another issue, if that is so then wouln't the speaker be less accurate.

In the third corner we have people who are saying that a speaker that has a boosted midrange is the better speaker. That also raises another issue, if there is too much midrange the speaker wwill sound king of tubby or the voices of certain singers will seem to "pop" out too much.

In the fourth corner of the room we have people who don't care either way as long as the speaker sounds "good".

In the middle of the room we have pulliam ranting about his speakers that have sharply peaked midrange, bass and treble turned up and a High THD.

Thank you for the synopsis. I was always a Cliff's Notes kinda guy.
post #67 of 511
Flat FR speakers can sound dull and lifeless. Easy to get used to them. Good for studio monitors.
Colored (inaccurate) speakers can sound like live music. Not easy to get used to them, but once you do, you are hooked. Very organic and exciting sound.
Which one would you choose?
post #68 of 511
This is one of the reasons I will never call myself an audiophile(other than my woefully small knowledge base). I don't care if a speaker is neutral or not. I'm not looking for a perfect reproduction of the original. I want them to sound good to me. I want good detail, I want them to have some punch to them. Accurate to the original? I could care less. That's just my take on it. I've never tested a set of speakers and doubt I ever will. I am willing to bet there are a large number of people just like me who just don't want to admit that.
It's fine if that's what floats your boat but I just want to enjoy my music and movies. Stressing about perfection would just take away from my limited listening time and enjoyment.
post #69 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

Flat FR speakers can sound dull and lifeless. Easy to get used to them. Good for studio monitors.
Colored (inaccurate) speakers can sound like live music. Not easy to get used to them, but once you do, you are hooked. Very organic and exciting sound.
Which one would you choose?

I don't accept your premises.
post #70 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by remodeler View Post

This is one of the reasons I will never call myself an audiophile(other than my woefully small knowledge base). I don't care if a speaker is neutral or not. I'm not looking for a perfect reproduction of the original. I want them to sound good to me. I want good detail, I want them to have some punch to them. Accurate to the original? I could care less. That's just my take on it. I've never tested a set of speakers and doubt I ever will. I am willing to bet there are a large number of people just like me who just don't want to admit that.
It's fine if that's what floats your boat but I just want to enjoy my music and movies. Stressing about perfection would just take away from my limited listening time and enjoyment.

^^What he said. I think much of this is mental masturbation...that and a healthy helping of snobbery, but hey, it's not my money.
post #71 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by remodeler View Post

This is one of the reasons I will never call myself an audiophile(other than my woefully small knowledge base). I don't care if a speaker is neutral or not. I'm not looking for a perfect reproduction of the original. I want them to sound good to me. I want good detail, I want them to have some punch to them. Accurate to the original? I could care less. That's just my take on it. I've never tested a set of speakers and doubt I ever will. I am willing to bet there are a large number of people just like me who just don't want to admit that.
It's fine if that's what floats your boat but I just want to enjoy my music and movies. Stressing about perfection would just take away from my limited listening time and enjoyment.

I agree, I can give a sh*t if my speakers don't measure perfect on a chart which doesnt tell me wheather I will like the speaker or not.
post #72 of 511
It's obvious now that most of you don't like neutral speakers but you prefer some color in their output. Just like when choosing a LCD TV, most people would choose the one with very bright ( see unnatural) colors. No wonder manufacturers play their tricks on consumers so successfully.
post #73 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

It's obvious now that most of you don't like neutral speakers but you prefer some color in their output. Just like when choosing a LCD TV, most people would choose the one with very bright ( see unnatural) colors. No wonder manufacturers play their tricks on consumers so successfully.

rooms add enough color

so do the bass and treble knobs
post #74 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

... but you prefer some color in their output.


Wow I was unaware that sounds had colors.... I need to get my ears...err...my eyes checked...


post #75 of 511
Quote:


so do the bass and treble knobs

Yeah.... those knobs are a killer. Especially when they're locked and you can't even get in your home theater or two channel room.

post #76 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I could be wrong, but didn't you say that room treatments didn't have an audible effect suggesting there was neglible interaction between the room and speakers, PULLIAM?

With a nearfield configuration, there is negligible interaction between the room and speakers.
Was there some sort of point you were unsuccessfully attempting to make?
post #77 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post


In the middle of the room we have pulliam ranting about his speakers that have sharply peaked midrange, bass and treble turned up and a High THD.

Tou obviously weren't paying attention (perhaps your head was to far up your...ahem...never mind.) My speakers have absolutely ruler-flat frequency response and ultra-low THD.
post #78 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

It's the weekend.....we won't hear from the mighty Pulliam until Monday.

And on cue, Monday, 8:15 am:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

With a nearfield configuration, there is negligible interaction between the room and speakers.
Was there some sort of point you were unsuccessfully attempting to make?

Maybe he works on the weekend and spends the week (during the day only, of course), here on AVS?
post #79 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Maybe he works on the weekend and spends the week (during the day only, of course), here on AVS?

No. I work a dull job during the week and visit here to stave off the boredom (and not for any other reason. Certainly, I am not under the illusion that thre is useful information to be found here!)
post #80 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Those of us wanting complete transparency need look no further than excellent but affordable studio monitors (such as Alesis) driven by equally excellent but affordable electronics (such as Cambridge Azur.) Such a system achieves complete accuracy and neutrality, making it impossible to improve upon in that regard.


You ARE kidding... Right?


"impossible to improve upon"

You made an absolute statement. You should have put In my opinion first
post #81 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperSupra View Post

You ARE kidding... Right?


"impossible to improve upon"

You made an absolute statement. You should have put In my opinion first

Pay attention to my sig.
post #82 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperSupra View Post

You ARE kidding... Right?


"impossible to improve upon"

You made an absolute statement. You should have put In my opinion first

He will have a different opinion soon. The flavor of the week depends on his latest purchase.
post #83 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Oh, I understand - more than you ever will. But when you make absolutely no sense when you post, people will find it hard to determine just exactly what you mean. Just re-read your posts and you'll see what I mean. If you still don't see the problem, take an English language course.

P.S. You still contradict yourself a LOT. So it is you who doesn't understand even the simplest things, not me.


Clearly you don't understand the basic with high fidelity. So please, show where I contradict myself
post #84 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

This thread is WAY too amusing and confusing.

In the first corner of the room we have people saying that a speaker that has a flat frequency responce is the best-sounding speaker. But then that raises another issue, it the speakers are completely "flat" sounding, wouldnt that man that the speaker is "shy" SOUNDING across the full fequency range? And for the record there is no such thing as a completely flat speaker.

in the second corner of the room we have the people who are saying that a good speaker Has a bowl shaped FR if plotted out on a graph. But that raises another issue, if that is so then wouln't the speaker be less accurate.

In the third corner we have people who are saying that a speaker that has a boosted midrange is the better speaker. That also raises another issue, if there is too much midrange the speaker wwill sound king of tubby or the voices of certain singers will seem to "pop" out too much.

In the fourth corner of the room we have people who don't care either way as long as the speaker sounds "good".

In the middle of the room we have pulliam ranting about his speakers that have sharply peaked midrange, bass and treble turned up and a High THD.


Do you really think flat FR is the only important thing in audio reproduction?
post #85 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMAN21 View Post

He will have a different opinion soon. The flavor of the week depends on his latest purchase.

I understand where you get that, since it used to be true. I have had the Alesis over a month now, though, and I know for certain that I will never hear anything better, since nothing better exists.
post #86 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

Flat FR speakers can sound dull and lifeless. Easy to get used to them. Good for studio monitors.
Colored (inaccurate) speakers can sound like live music. Not easy to get used to them, but once you do, you are hooked. Very organic and exciting sound.
Which one would you choose?


This sound like...well, nothing based on facts at least. Just opinion and that can be whatever. If one are seeking out high fidelity, well then a good FR, low distortion and many many other things is important. If one only want cool sound, it must be easier to buy the crap that are printed in TAS and other magazines and just buy the latest, expensive, thing.
post #87 of 511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by remodeler View Post

This is one of the reasons I will never call myself an audiophile(other than my woefully small knowledge base). I don't care if a speaker is neutral or not. I'm not looking for a perfect reproduction of the original. I want them to sound good to me. I want good detail, I want them to have some punch to them. Accurate to the original? I could care less. That's just my take on it. I've never tested a set of speakers and doubt I ever will. I am willing to bet there are a large number of people just like me who just don't want to admit that.
It's fine if that's what floats your boat but I just want to enjoy my music and movies. Stressing about perfection would just take away from my limited listening time and enjoyment.


This is your choice, and I have made mine. Nothing wrong with that.
Btw, do you not care about the accurate image from your movies or are that different? Would be nice to hear.
post #88 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Do you really think flat FR is the only important thing in audio reproduction?

Of course not. It is definitely a basic requirement, though. As we mathematicians say, it is necessary but not sufficient.
post #89 of 511
I agree with PULLIAMM and NIN. Is that bad for me?
post #90 of 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsum View Post

I agree with PULLIAMM and NIN. Is that bad for me?

Sorry, dude. There goes your credibility!
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