Must Have Features on CEDB Boxes?

RF out can be turned off, and pass through will work even with the device on.

They are all clones with different cases and a few with extra features thrown in.
I am not just talking about the Electronic Program Guide

Look at my EPG thread to see what they all look like.

The Apex DT250 uses the same style as the Tivax
The Zentech uses the same style as the GE / Goodmind

Features that make one clone from another stand out are:
■ Remote shape and buttons (some are also clones)
■ Service Port (some have it)
■ Controls on Box (some have more - MicroProse looks like it has the most )
■ S-Video (very few have it)
■ Tuner used (can even be different in the same model - Zenith for example)
■ Power Supply (some are external)
■ Use of a Heat Sink (very rare)
■ Ventilation & Case Material
■ Menu functions enabled (some have a few more options turned on in the firmware)

Regarding your sensitivity requirement look at the SoC (Sysem on Chip used or MPEG Decoder in Wikipedia)
that will be the main thing to determine that.
Next would be the Tuner (you have less control of this as it can change)

For example the Zenith uses either the LG or Sanyo - Sanyo has been said to be a little better.

With your S-Video requirement you have two choices the Apex DT250 or Channel Master CM-7000.

The Channel Master has a better looking User Interface if you ask me but looks are not everything.

I like EPGs that let me keep watching/listening to the channel I'm on. Even though Zenith is just now/next, the guide refreshes almost instantly and I can refresh and check it all out during a commercial.

12/24 of my channels stay analog so APT isn't moot. Most are boosters, but there are a few independent stations.

Being able to set aspect preferences down to the channel level is cool. I like the detailed program info, not all boxes provide a full description. Zenith has 4 aspect choices, many others just have 3.

I like the idea of DTVPal's closed captions being set at the menu, and then leaving the button for a quick on/off. And the timers of course. I haven't seen their cc options to know how well cc can be adapted to user preference, but it does have advanced cc options.

Being able to manually add a channel and auto rescan (add vs. overwrite) is essential, IMO. I like zenith's audio signal, but I wish it had a number, instead of just a bar.

If you have a lot of adjacent channel interference, MicroTune tuner may make a difference. We don't have a lot of solid info about relative ability to pull in channels with adjacent channel vs multipath vs fringe signal.

I don't care how the remote is, since I have a universal learning remote. Otherwise, ability to control tv power and volume would matter.

I think a really useful feature would be a numeric channel display on the box. This is especially true of the DTVPal whose programming ability will steer it's use towards analog recording equipment. It would be really nice to see what channel it has set itself to so I can tell I'm recording what I want.

Only to some people. Our Fox and CW affiliates are on low power translators not changing to digital in February.

Also there are several low power analog independents not converting. I actually get *fewer* channels on digital, even with the ones that multi-cast, than analog because I lose so many that are not converting.

This is not true as the PassThru is not just for Analog signals

It can still be used for daisy chaining devices.
This way you can use the incoming signal with another device and not need the use of a splitter.

However, if using all ATSC devices the non-CECB should also be capable of passing thru the signal so the CECB should be placed last in the chain if using another ATSC device.

So it depends on what other device you will be using and also on what stations will remain Analog.

It also will violate the "All Receivers Act" enacted by Congress in 1962 for a few years.
The NTIA does not seem to concerned about that unlike the CBA and with good reason.

Mine needs to make Grilled Cheese Sandwiches or no deal lol

Hi Tom,

I agree with you that S-video output is a significant feature worth having.

Per Blue Jeans Cable - An AVS forum sponsor:

You may wish to check out the HDTVExpet review of the CM-7000

CNET has not yet reviewed the CM-7000. However, they are commenting on it in other CECB reviews
(Insignia NS-DXA1, RCA DTA800, Zenith DTT900):

You may also wish to read this thread: CM-7000 vs. Zenith: Sensitivity?

And as Malouff correctly points out:

You might also wish to consider the following information:

FWIW, per Wikipedia:

Versus:

• Channel Master
• Parent company - PCT International

Additionally, CM has toll-free english-speaking Tech Support: Ron Morgan: 1-866-430-1307. And since they also make antennas, Ron can also help with any specific DTV reception issues you may face.

I hope this helps.

Channel Readout: Most don't have a channel readout on the box because it is available as an on-screen display (OSD).

Smart Antenna: Channel Master has been a leader in the TV antenna business for 50 years. They offer a SMARTenna with the following disclaimer "Omnidirectional antennas are not recommended in areas with high multi-path problems (i.e. ghosting)."

The physics of TV reception has not changed. For optimum TV reception a highly directional antenna with a rotator will yield the best results.

Channel Master offers a large selection of Digital TV antennas based on the new frequency allocation for digital channels: Indoor and Outdoor. Any questions call CM Tech Support: Ron Morgan: 1-866-430-1307.

Apex Digital: I'd be more concerned as to whether the corporate culture of their company may impact the design and/or quality control of their products.

The Zenith doesn't provide S-Video output.

And of course come with a bag of chips!

The Channel Master SmartTenna is not really a "Smart Antenna". It's 360 degrees omni-directional 100% of the time, and does no automatic adjustments by turning any of the elements on or off.

Thanks for the additional CM SMARTenna information.

Are "Smart Antennas" limited to indoor types? Or, are attic or outdoor types also available? What is maximum reliable reception range for a "Smart Antenna"

Are there any professional direct comparison test reports of a "Smart Antenna" versus a high-quality directional antenna roof-mounted with a rotor?

Probably rated about 30-35 miles tops, I would think. But under optimal conditions I'd guess it could do even better. I wouldn't expect much from VHF-hi though, after maybe 25 miles. That's just my guess, anyways.

The only one I know of that's been available for a few years now is the Sylvania model. I don't know how many, or even if any of those other, new outdoor ones are out yet. I know that no indoor ones are, though - I think not 'till next year.

Who really knows if any of those will ever actually materialize, though. Personally, even though I have stations in 3 different directions, I wouldn't let that feature be a top priority in my choice of a CECB box. I mean, I certainly wouldn't put up with the supposedly-crappy GE box just because I wanted that feature. I'm more concerned with the best possible picture quality, and the sensitivity. Those are things you can't get anywhere else, like you can with the guide info. I'd rather just use a rotator (which I am using). At least then I could use a better antenna (which I also am using).

But the original Smart Antenna was designed to be used with a Sylvania HD ATSC tuner, so you're probably going to get better PQ to an analog set (especially over component) from that than most or all of the CECB boxes. That combo I would definitely trust as far as using it in place of any CECB/Smart Antenna setup. It's supposed to be a pretty good tuner.

I guess the rooftop Smart Antenna would be the choice if you wanted to record from different directions - but that really isn't that important to me. Most of the stuff not in my main market is the same stuff that's shown here, albeit at different times.

As for indoor, I'd just use something like the Radio Shack 15-1892 (at least until any of the indoor Smart Antennas came out). It's basically the same idea, and it gets good reviews.

As far as a review of the Sylvania Smart Antenna (paired with the Sylvania tuner), I believe Hollands here did one, if you can find it (it'd be in the HD Technical forum, I'd imagine).

Thanks for the "Smart Antenna" summary. Sounds like it may be another CECB work in progress.

Has anyone actually had a converter box where the service port was actually used for something like a firmware upgrade? Most manufacturers won't admit any known defects in their product even exist let alone issue any fixes. I doubt that any of them are going to ship out serial/usb dongles to allow customers to perform firmware upgrades. In event of a horrific firmware bug, they are going silently issue a fix on new units, stall until the 90 day warranty is up on any existing units, then completely wash their hands of any responsibility.

The most likely purpose of the service port, is to allow for automated testing at the end of the assembly line. The cost of a 10 cent jack beats the cost of having humans monitor the final diagnostics.

Per one of the AVS forum sponsors - Blue Jeans Cable:

For seniors: legibility of the on-screen displays, and ergonomics of the remote (big buttons, clear labels, etc.) Controlling the television power allows keeping only one remote on hand, a clear advantage.

Have you read your manual on how to turn that required feature off yet ? Having the ability to turn it off is also a requirement.

S-Video
Digital Dolby out (Feds want us to see digital, but not hear it?)
RF learning remote
Picture freeze
Flashback to previous channel
Custom surf list
7 day EPG with timer (at least)
At least 2 pair video/audio outs. One for TV, one for recorder
Solar powered with battery capacity to get you through the night
Free after $40 coupon

All boxes including the CM allow the auto off feature to be disabled. The only box I know of that didn't was the HD Tivax LX1000 (non CE) it turned off after 5 hours and could NOT be defeated. I promptly returned that box
Staying in the vein of the OP I'd rate good reception #1 followed by a S-video jack, a VCR timer(ala DTVPal), and a nice 24+ hour EPG. Oh I also like a metal vs. plastic case, and the box to NOT run HOT.
The CM-7000 has all but #3 and since the DVTPal doesn't have #2, and does have a plastic case, I'll probably only get a couple of those for DVDRs and use mostly CMs and one Zenith DTT-901.
I forgot to mention APT is also nice for daisy chaining devices without bulk, but an external splitter also works in my case.

Beeper, I guess you believe in dreaming big.
That would disqualify it from coupon eligibility, wouldn't it?
If you don't mind calling it a Favorites list, that's a very common feature.

Beeper also wanted,
With Dolby Digital out it would be ineligible for the coupon, so to be free after the coupon it would have to be free, period.

Most of the boxes with APT provide it only when they're shut off, so they wouldn't help out in a daisy chain.

Previously you stated you wanted S-video. But, your candidates only include one CECB with S-video, the Apex DT250. However, this model has yet to be tested by CR which, appears to be the reason you left the CM-7000 out of consideration.

Have you searched the CECB forum by thread title using the "Apex 250" model number for the early reviews? You might be surprised.

Since CR has not yet tested the the CM-7000, you may wish to read AVS comparison reviews written by people who have purchased more than one CECB in addition to the CM-7000. These comparison reviews have been very complimentary of the the CM-7000.

I think if you could combine the best features of the CM-7000 and DTVPal, you would have (IMHO) the best converter box.

CM-7000 cool features:
* S-Video out
* Uses Pioneer remote codes, can control CM rotator and CECB at same time.

DTVPal cool features:
* Nice programming guide
* Ability to send TVGOS data to and be controlled by TVGOS enabled devices.

Combine a box with these features with a TVGOS HDD recorder, a G-link, and the recorder could control both your CECB box and your antenna rotator simultaneously.

I think this could have been accomplished and still have stayed within the rules of the NTIA for CECB's.