Official RadianceXD support thread - Page 38

The Radiance series hardware in its current form is not capable of 4k,
next generation Lumagen VP will be required or perhaps (But unlikely) Lumagen may offer XE Board upgrades..

Yes, the brightness/contrast pattern is pretty good. check their tech tip. I used to use AVSHD disc as well, but now I just bring up their pattern.

For those that `No capiche!':

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

Thanks for the tip.

How about active cables for short runs of 6ft? I thought I read some where not to use active cables for short runs but can't find the reference now. Trying to keep my rack manageable.

No one makes a short active cable for good reason. An active cable would exacerbate the issue of short cables.

That is unless you actually had a short cable with attenuation in it to undo the cable pre-EQ in the HDMI output. Very much not cost effective and they don't exist AFAIK..

Just use a 6 foot or longer cable.
Edited by jrp - 12/1/12 at 3:04pm

The Redmere Active cables come in 6ft length here.

By short I meant 6ft sorry. Just wondering if it would help going from Oppo -> Mini3D -> Darbee -> JVC RS45 on the "short" cables going from the Oppo and between the processors.

If you set the grayscale controls to produce a gamma of 2.35 and set the Radiance Sharpness and Detail controls to 3 (no higher), you'll do about the same thing the Darbee box does. You definitely need to use at least 10 adjustment points, but 21 points would be even better. You don't NEED v5 to do that, but if you want the matrix/LUT calibration, you definitely need v5. LUT calibration has everything to do with accuracy and nothing to do with "pop". "Wow" factor is over-rated and is typically inaccurate. The director and cinematographer do not use the Darbee box when they decide how each scene of the movie should look when you view it at home. So if you add the Darbee box, you will be making the images something the director & cinematographer did not approve. "Wow" factor is most often a result of one or more inaccurate image properties.

Isn't the word ``POP' every calibrator's nightmare when a client uses it? Isn't this why the new TV's have glass fronts (Mirror Finish at that!) to give that supposed `POP' look?
What happened to wanting the TV to look `Natural'? When I go outside, it looks `Natural'. I have yet to see Mother Nature give me that `POP' look, except possibly when watching fireworks, and I think that more relates to the audio part.
If I see a woman having that `POP' look, the first thing I thing of is, man, this woman is going to cost a lot of money. So give me a `Natural' looking woman instead!
Come to think of it, when has anyone in the Forums, in the last while, said their sets look `Natural'?
Hopefully, after my XE comes in, and I get my first calibration done, I'm going to hope that I can say with that finished calibration: `Dam, does that ever look Natural'!

Doug,

Thanks for the reply. I'll redo calibration with Calman 4. What are your thoughs on i1D3 instead of EF-1000 though? If I get i1D3, should i profile it to the EF-1000? Thanks,

p5browne,

I agree, I probably shouldn't have used "pop" as the word (or mentioned Darbee ). I'm just not getting my Kuro up to some of the expectations/results that I see in the dedicated Kuro threads. Some amazing screen shots are posted over there. I just need to roll up my sleeves and re-tweak.

I have the LG 55LHX, and one of the video PQs results were a slight softening of the video. Bothered me when I saw the PQs on the local Video stores sets, but realized part of the effect was caused by the Glass Fronts, plus them using Demo mode probably wherein the PQ is in the neighbourhood of 9500K +!
The Darbee has rid me of that softer look. Lumagen does state that the Radiance and Darbee do compliment each other, and that they are each affecting the resulting PQ in different ways.

I'm sorry, Doug, but that's just not true. The Darblet is not a simple sharpening algorithm. This has been debated at length in the appropriate Darblet threads, so I won't belabor it here. Some people like what the Darblet does, while others have a video purist attitude. To each their own. But the effects of the Darblet cannot be directly recreated with anything in the Radiance, and no one from Lumagen would claim as much.

Guess it would be best to contact each director and their DP/cinematographer on the matter. Seems some, in the past, have viewed the technology and liked what they saw, it would "appear":

"DarbeeVision processing has already been used in three major films: Academy Award Winner, Robert Altman’s Oscar winning motion picture Gosford Park, Images, and The Company.
Robert Altman says that DarbeeVision is like, “putting on a new pair of glasses.”
Technical Director For Kodak’s Cinesite digital effects and digital intermediate businesses, Steve Wright, declared, “Wow! The DarbeeVision shots had a sharpness, clarity, and scene depth that gave them a ‘hyper-realism’ compared to the originals… that would make any feature film stand out.”
Wes Adams from GP Color Imaging Group, a part of the Macintosh desktop publishing revolution from its infancy affirms, “DarbeeVision is one of those products that is at the cusp of innovation.”

DarbeeVision (Darbee) is a software program, which imparts added depth, realism, and a natural ease of vision in all imaging formats. Darbee optimizes the data that is delivered, maximizing the visual quality and viewing experience. The process works with any digital image source, still or moving, including celluloid film, digital intermediate for film, SD and HD video, DVD’s, digital photography, print media, billboards, posters, digital graphics, videogames and images on the web. " Now that our patent has been approved, it is time to fully implement this product and capitalize on the significant number of applications, placements and opportunities for DarbeeVision in the digital media world. Utilizing the DVn software will significantly benefit the consumer’s media experience and subsequently a company’s bottom line," declared a DarbeeVision representative. Continuing he states, "We completed our infrastructure development objectives for 2005 and turn to the market driven opportunities in 2006. We are directing our focus to key companies in media, entertainment and Infoimaging, to utilize this very beneficial software technology, called DarbeeVision!"

from http://darbeevision.com/view_news/id/1/title/DarbeeVision___A_Pioneering_Technology_Giving_All_Digital_Image_Media_Amazing_Clarity_and_Depth

Perhaps what Doug was trying to state is that the directors do not expect end users to enhance the video themselves with a darblet, as it changes the desired effect of the film. Directors, on the other hand, can use something like a darblet in post-process to intentionally change the image to their "vision" of the film.

^^ Exactly. If they use a Darbee processor of some kind during their conversion of the film for Blu-ray... so be it. That's the way they want you to see their images. The video ON THE DISC represents what they saw - no further home processing is needed. If you then run another Darbee box at home, you have now "double-Darbee'd" the movie and, again, that's not what the director and/or cinematographer intended.

If the movie was produced without "enhancement by Darbee" then you have to assume that what's on the disc is what the director and cinematographer wanted you to see... so running it through a Darbee box changes their intent. Period. If it doesn't bother you to change their intent... whatever. But if you want to see the movie as the director/cinematographer wanted it seen... the only way to do that is without a Darbee box or with the box set to not enhance the movie in question. Or you could put the box on the output of a cable/satellite box so other sources aren't Darbee'd.

Does the movie box tell you if the movie was "Darbee'd" or not? None I've see have that information on them. So what's the right thing to do at home? If you run the Darbee box, 100% of the time, you've changed the director's/cinematographer's intent. Only you can decide if that's OK or not.

Screen shots are worthless... I can't understand exactly why people put any value in a screen shot... at all. 10 different cameras will produce 10 different screen shots. And the differences will vary... could be color, could be contrast, could be both and the differences could be different in shadows vs highlights, etc. There's no such thing as a camera that's completely accurate in every way. Even if you send a test pattern that measures 128-128-128 with a meter and a photo of the pattern also measures 128-128-128 in PhotoShop... is the computer monitor you display the image on calibrated to perfection? So even if everybody who submits screenshots somehow managed to use perfectly accurate cameras, everybody viewing the screen shot would see something different because their computer monitors are highly unlikely to be particularly well-calibrated. There are just too many ways for a photo to be represented by the time you see it to make screen shots indicative of anything.

Again, all of these Darblet arguments have already been had in the Darbee thread. We don't need to bog down this thread with them. Some people see value in what the Darblet does, others don't. However, it is not accurate to say that the effects of the Darblet can be recreated by fiddling with the Sharpness and Gamma settings in a Radiance.

Intent is one thing, but not everyone actually "sees" images quite the same. At least in my case, I've got something either in my vision or head that exaggerates images in cases where strong reds and greens appear together. It's called stereoscapy, and it may be just an extreme form that we all have (sometimes it's so extreme I get a bit of vertigo). When these colors appear, especially in static print, what I see is 3D like images. I suppose it's similar to the shadowing effect that's an optical illusion which makes us think things are 3D on a 2D image.

In any case, the effect that DarbeeVision brings to the image suggests what we perceive in the real world -- a parallax image created by two eyes and a brain correlating point sources in space. At least for me, using my system, and the best sources, the Darblet makes what I'm seeing more "real". All things considered, it's a keeper that nearly all of us would give up, very reluctantly.

Received and set up my Radiance XE last night, to replace an iScan Duo.
Colour a little more solid. Greyscaling was more steady. But had problems with CMS, in that I had hesitation after every click, until the result showed. CMS readings also seemed more elevated than the iScan Duo.
Composite Input, after tweaking, had a very impressive result, almost appearing HD.
Wife just called after discovering the New Radiance remote. Pissed off that now she has to hit 3 keys instead of one to get her Dishnet. (Input, X10, 5) (I have the Composite side of a Dual Tuner Dishnet Receiver - she has the HDMI) (Luckily, for now, didn't ask the price.)
Will try the 125 Point 3D Lut tonight.

CMS hesitation problem cleared up. Due to changing all my 4:4:4s to 4:2:2?
Also, during calibrations, calibrating screen will partially, or fully disappear and the screen reverts to TVs Original Program that is running. Moving the mouse or clicking the mouse will usually bring calibration screen back up. Will happen 4 to 5 times during the calibration session.

Oops! IScan Duo's Port settings were for 19200. The Radiance XE is 9600. Will reset the Com Ports settings tonight and retry.
Edited by p5browne - 12/7/12 at 2:03pm

The Radiance has an "Auto Input Select" feature. You can use this feature to make your AV system easier to use for other family members.

Press "Menu, Other, I/O Setup, Auto Select, Ok"

If you press the "Help" button you will see the following information:
"When enabled, this list can be used to auto switch to an active input when the current video source is turned off. The priority 1 input is the first input tried when the current source is turned off. HDMI inputs can be auto selected when turned on by setting 'Select when On' to 'Y'. Disable auto selection by deleting all entries in the list."

Randy Freeman
Lumagen

Get a harmony or irule on your ipad/android. Best way to hide buying new equipment as the remote layout and everything should stay the same

Problem arose tonight after doing my manual calibration. When I next went to the 3D Lut, it of course now wants to do an AutoCal on the Greyscale. Every IRE except 100 worked properly. 100IRE, not so good. Would bang around back and forth, with all the values below 3. But then it would finish and move on to 50IRE, leaving 100IRE now sitting from anywhere from 6 to 12! What happened to less than 1? After re doing the AutoCal several times with the same results, removed my values and put the RGB values all at Zero. Now, the AutocCal finished with 100IRE below 1, and almost at 0. Has anyone else found this?

My Original calibrated values weren't that far off: R: 1,G: -2, B: 1, but 0,0,0 did make the difference! My LG 55LHX now looks amazing after the 125 Point Calibration!
Will have to try the 0,0,0 trick on my iScan Duo setups. (In fact, my basement system seemed to AutoCal surprisingly well compared to my efforts - but then again, I had left everything Zeroed out on it. Next - will Zero the wife's loft 100IRE, and AutoCal it. (Only did the manual calibration due to the zanny performance of the AutoCal on it after the manual calibration.))

Did have problems with the Calibration screen disappearing, and the Program Material running at the time, popping up.
Also the odd time the XE's Menu would popup on the calibration screen, then disappear. Will try covering the XE's sensors before the next calibration in case some of the LG Remote pulses are interferring with the XE's.
Next, cover all those glaring LEDs shining in the room, plus a black cover for the Laptop during the AutoCal! Should get the Black reading now down to Zero.
Calibrated great with the Darbee inline. (Another source of glaring LEDS!)
Edited by p5browne - 12/9/12 at 7:05am

Lumagen used to recommend not to adjust the 100% (IRE) point as it could introduce issues, instead use your displays Gains to get 100 as close as possible...

This recommendation may sence of changed....

Is there a write up or instructions for manual calibration using the 125 point cube?? I used Chromapure's advanced auto cal and have a couple points that I would like to tweak a bit. Not sure how to do that as I have not ever calibrated using any method other than lowering / raising RGB. I do not see this as an option for 125 point.

On the iScan Duo thread, a member has a printout of the Colour Chart, and it reminds me of my Duo chart, and both seem better results then the 125 Point calibration I just did? Will have to compare the Duo on the wife's set to my XE on my set now. So if the Duo is better with 11 Point, what's with the 125 Point?

We updated "Tech Tip 2 - Gamut Calibration" to include both 8-point and 125-point calibrations.
http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Tip0002_GamutCalibration_110712.pdf

1. Press "Menu 0910" to turn on service mode.
2. Press "Menu, Output, CMS's, [cms], Color Gamut, Edit Gamut, Ok".

You just need to enter the correct RGB values, for the points that you want to touch up, for the test pattern "Location (rgb)" setting.

Randy Freeman
Lumagen

Need some advice here on if I should put a receiver in front of my XD-3D or "along-side/after"..
I used to have it along-side (i.e. using the receiver to decode audio) for my PJ, but basically after it when hooking up to my Plasma. Unfortunately, Lumagen does not offer a 3rd HDMI out like DUO (which I think is one thing that I really like about DUO) that takes care of dual-display + AVR situation. Long story short, this is what I had been using so far, as my AVR does not handle 3D so I really don't have much choice.
Recently, I got an Onkyo NR-818, which is 3D capable... this gives me thinking of if I should place the receiver ahead of the VP, and use the virtual-input to still get most of XD. It seems like I can turn the VP processing off from 818, so that should take care of the video issue. A few PROs I see doing this is:

1) I got OSD display --> (although I am using irule, so I can program the feedback into the ipad... but for kids, maybe they still want to use the Harmony)
2) No more audio into VP --> That hopefully solve some issues I have currently with Oppo and DTS-HDMA/TrueHD issue. My XD-3D does not support bitsreaming those, so with the AVR taking care of it, I can pretty much ignore all the Audio section in Lumagen. BTW, is there any way to completely ignore the audio input selection?
3) A cleaner install --> All signals goes through the same layer of components (Source --> AVR --> VP --> Device) for both my PJ and Plasma.

The only shortcomings I can see is:
1) I need to do some re-routing on my cabinet, which is not pretty...
2) I need to reprogram my Harmony and Irule.. again, more work...
3) the AVR might not completely bypass all video processing... I checked the 818 forum and it seems that I can indeed turn those off in a special menu... however, without any rigid testing, I think it is hard to tell. (but if it is hard to tell, maybe I am fine ).

Any other input and comments?

That's where I'm being dense. I do not know what the RGB values are for each color at their different stimulus levels. Might there be a cheat sheet somewhere that I could reference?

Why is there no option to just raise / lower RGB values like in the 8 point cal? That's so much easier. Or if we can, I have not been able to find that function.

Problem of Lumagen Menus popping up during a Manual Calibration, or Calibration Menus reverting back to Original Programming running in the background, was fixed by covering the Input Sensors of the Lumagen during Manual Calibration. My LG Remote and Lumagen must have some of the Control sequences the same. or very close.
Found less problems by Manually Calibrating the 90 to 109 for Brightness and Contrast (Making sure your set Isn't set to 2 Point!). Also the Grayscale and CMS. AutoCal only the 125 point 3D LUT. (And in my case, covering over the LED lights on my Darbee, and throwing a Black sweater over my Laptop Screen until the calibration is done.)

Great PQ, but now HDMI Handshaking Problems! Had very little problem with my Duo.

New things to know:
Did you know, your information flow, is supposed to be in the Direction of the Lettering on the HDMI Cable? Will this solve my handshaking problem, now that I've made sure all the cables are going in the right direction?
Edited by p5browne - 12/17/12 at 9:16pm

^^^^
That's, unfortunately, baloney. "Information" "flows" in both directions on HDMI cables, at least sometimes it does. No, reversing an HDMI cable will not change your handshake issue. You have to change one of the 2 components involved, change the order things are connected, or live with it (hopefully after finding a workaround that's not a real pain in the butt). Lumagen Radiance processors are one of the few devices that can be set different ways to handle different handshake scenarios. Have you tried one of the Passback options for HDMI handshake on the Radiance processor? (sorry, no time to read back through the thread)