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Official RadianceXD support thread - Page 9

post #241 of 1347
It does not appear that it outputs 480P/24
post #242 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

Question: Can the Radiance products accept 480p/24 over HDMI? (assuming there was a device that could send that)

I'm pretty sure that it could. Do you have such a device?
post #243 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestef View Post

It does not appear that it outputs 480P/24

That's not the question asked. But in fact, since the output timings can be completely custom, the XD could in fact output 480p24 if desired. I don't know of any display device that would accept this resolution though.
post #244 of 1347
I stand corrected.
post #245 of 1347
This is the issue:

The Oppo BDP-83 can detect video vs film soured DVDs and automatically adjust its output frame-rate (60/24), which is a really cool feature. You no longer need to switch to different memories on a Lumagen to get 60fps for video and 24fps.

The problem is that to get that automatic frame rate switching, it also scales to 1080. It would be really nice to get this with no scaling, so the VP can do that (IMO better than the ABT chip in the Oppo).

So, in oder to suggest they make this change, I need to know that a VP can in fact accept 480p/24 over HDMI, and actually it would be really nice to know that the 5.1 DD/DTS soundtracks can be sent over HDMI as such low frame/resolution rates.
post #246 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

This is the issue:

The Oppo BDP-83 can detect video vs film soured DVDs and automatically adjust its output frame-rate (60/24), which is a really cool feature. You no longer need to switch to different memories on a Lumagen to get 60fps for video and 24fps.

The problem is that to get that automatic frame rate switching, it also scales to 1080. It would be really nice to get this with no scaling, so the VP can do that (IMO better than the ABT chip in the Oppo).

So, in oder to suggest they make this change, I need to know that a VP can in fact accept 480p/24 over HDMI, and actually it would be really nice to know that the 5.1 DD/DTS soundtracks can be sent over HDMI as such low frame/resolution rates.

is the Oppo deinterlacing that much better than the Radiance? why not let the XD do both the deinterlacing and scaling?
post #247 of 1347
This is really not an issue centered around which does de-interlacing better. It has to do with the fact that the Radiance cannot take a 60i signal and automatically switch to two different output memories (60p vs 24p) based on whether the input signal is video sourced or film sourced. What I would like to have is the automatic frame rate switching (found in the Oppo, but today scaling comes with it, I don't want the scling) coupled with the superior scaling of the Radiance. The Oppo would only have to de-interlace when film is detected, which IMO, is not hard at all (no motion adaptive magic happening there).

We would not need this functionality from a DVD player if the Radiance could have a different input sub-memory on not just resolution, but also based on the source being video vs film (for example, input memory called "480v and another called 480f", then each of these could be tied to an independent output memory (1080p/60 and 1080p/24). However, I don't think that is going to happen, so the next best thing is to have the DVD player send out two different video formats which [hopefully] can be tied to two different input memories on the Radiance. Hmm, that raises another question, can 480i/60 and 480p/24 be two different input sub-memories on the Radiance? Can the 480p/24 fall in to the "other" sub-memory? Maybe this is too far fetched...
post #248 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

This is really not an issue centered around which does de-interlacing better. It has to do with the fact that the Radiance cannot take a 60i signal and automatically switch to two different output memories (60p vs 24p) based on whether the input signal is video sourced or film sourced. What I would like to have is the automatic frame rate switching (found in the Oppo, but today scaling comes with it, I don't want the scling) coupled with the superior scaling of the Radiance. The Oppo would only have to de-interlace when film is detected, which IMO, is not hard at all (no motion adaptive magic happening there).

We would not need this functionality from a DVD player if the Radiance could have a different input sub-memory on not just resolution, but also based on the source being video vs film (for example, input memory called "480v and another called 480f", then each of these could be tied to an independent output memory (1080p/60 and 1080p/24). However, I don't think that is going to happen, so the next best thing is to have the DVD player send out two different video formats which [hopefully] can be tied to two different input memories on the Radiance. Hmm, that raises another question, can 480i/60 and 480p/24 be two different input sub-memories on the Radiance? Can the 480p/24 fall in to the "other" sub-memory? Maybe this is too far fetched...

It's not, the input memories come with standard resolutions, but they can be replaced with any custom timing. I've never tried it though. But if the Oppo doesn't output 480p24 isn't the whole point moot?
post #249 of 1347
The idea was to get Oppo to change their feature to add 480p/24, but we needed to know if a VP can accept that mode before asking them to do this.
post #250 of 1347
Why would Oppo be willing to implement a feature which would cause problems with 99.99% of their users ?
post #251 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

The idea was to get Oppo to change their feature to add 480p/24, but we needed to know if a VP can accept that mode before asking them to do this.

You should call Lumagen directly to confirm. My understanding is that the Radiance should be able to, but you should make sure of that.
post #252 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Why would Oppo be willing to implement a feature which would cause problems with 99.99% of their users ?

Why would it cause problems?
post #253 of 1347
Because anybody choosing this setting on a standard TV or beamer would end up with a black screen and since it's not a broadcast resolution they can't rely on EDID information to see if the display's compatible.
post #254 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

This is really not an issue centered around which does de-interlacing better. It has to do with the fact that the Radiance cannot take a 60i signal and automatically switch to two different output memories (60p vs 24p) based on whether the input signal is video sourced or film sourced. What I would like to have is the automatic frame rate switching (found in the Oppo, but today scaling comes with it, I don't want the scling) coupled with the superior scaling of the Radiance. The Oppo would only have to de-interlace when film is detected, which IMO, is not hard at all (no motion adaptive magic happening there).

We would not need this functionality from a DVD player if the Radiance could have a different input sub-memory on not just resolution, but also based on the source being video vs film (for example, input memory called "480v and another called 480f", then each of these could be tied to an independent output memory (1080p/60 and 1080p/24). However, I don't think that is going to happen, so the next best thing is to have the DVD player send out two different video formats which [hopefully] can be tied to two different input memories on the Radiance. Hmm, that raises another question, can 480i/60 and 480p/24 be two different input sub-memories on the Radiance? Can the 480p/24 fall in to the "other" sub-memory? Maybe this is too far fetched...

while both Oppo and Lumagen are receptive to suggested features it seems like this would be beneficial to only a small % of Oppo BDP-83 owners who have a VP that can accept the input format whereas it (switching output to 60i or 24p based on video/film) could be useful to any Radiance owner who feeds DVD's source direct to the XD/XE.

you might try asking Lumagen if it would be possible to implement as well as Oppo. double your chances
post #255 of 1347
I just set up my new RadianceXD last night, will take a little time getting used to the controls. I also have a relatively new JVC RS15. I used to have the RS1 with the Vision HDP set to best adjustments w/o full CMS.
Until I can afford to get the XD calibrated in the next couple of months, I input the same color corrections for Red, Green, Blue that I used with the HDP, which gave a very good picture. However, I noticed that after inputting those same adjustments into the XD, the menu allowed me to let the XD do an automatic adjustment to the secondaries. The picture definitely looked a little different, but I didn't have time to look much. My question is, has anyone else tried this Secondaries calibration and compared it to a full calibration?
Also, I couldn't find the adjustments for picture size, TopLeft and BottomRight that the HDP had. Anyone know where these adjustments are?

Thanks for the input.
post #256 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

The idea was to get Oppo to change their feature to add 480p/24, but we needed to know if a VP can accept that mode before asking them to do this.

Why not just let it output 480i and use the Radiance to convert to 1080p24?
post #257 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

Why not just let it output 480i and use the Radiance to convert to 1080p24?

This is answered in post #247 above.
post #258 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

This is really not an issue centered around which does de-interlacing better. It has to do with the fact that the Radiance cannot take a 60i signal and automatically switch to two different output memories (60p vs 24p) based on whether the input signal is video sourced or film sourced. What I would like to have is the automatic frame rate switching (found in the Oppo, but today scaling comes with it, I don't want the scling) coupled with the superior scaling of the Radiance. The Oppo would only have to de-interlace when film is detected, which IMO, is not hard at all (no motion adaptive magic happening there).

We would not need this functionality from a DVD player if the Radiance could have a different input sub-memory on not just resolution, but also based on the source being video vs film (for example, input memory called "480v and another called 480f", then each of these could be tied to an independent output memory (1080p/60 and 1080p/24). However, I don't think that is going to happen, so the next best thing is to have the DVD player send out two different video formats which [hopefully] can be tied to two different input memories on the Radiance. Hmm, that raises another question, can 480i/60 and 480p/24 be two different input sub-memories on the Radiance? Can the 480p/24 fall in to the "other" sub-memory? Maybe this is too far fetched...

also, i don't know if you've used it alot, but the DVD=>24p feature on the Oppo is kinda hit or miss depending on how well the DVD was authored. the consensus on the Oppo BDP-83 tech discussion thread is to leave it off because it can introduce stuttering and frame tearing with DVD having bad edits and cadence issues (on more DVD's than you'd expect).
post #259 of 1347
Quote:
This is really not an issue centered around which does de-interlacing better. It has to do with the fact that the Radiance cannot take a 60i signal and automatically switch to two different output memories (60p vs 24p) based on whether the input signal is video sourced or film sourced. What I would like to have is the automatic frame rate switching (found in the Oppo, but today scaling comes with it, I don't want the scling) coupled with the superior scaling of the Radiance. The Oppo would only have to de-interlace when film is detected, which IMO, is not hard at all (no motion adaptive magic happening there).

The biggest problem we have of auto detecting between film/video and switching between corresponding output modes like 24p/60p is false detection of film/video. Switching output modes incorrectly, with all the HDMI handshaking, is too slow to tolerate if done incorrectly. It's possible we could have some sort of threshold but when you have a tv show that's in film mode and then commercials in video how long would you make the threshold? We just haven't seen a good way to do it. DVD players have an advantage with the flags on DVD's telling them what they're playing so if a player could change it's mode based on that, it would be an easy way for us to switch cleanly. Although, I still wonder if there might be material that switches between the two, maybe for previews or something, that would be rather annoying for many.
post #260 of 1347
Hi,

I have the following setup:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Lumagen Radiance XE --> Integra DTC-9.8

Has anyone tried playing SACD dsd thru the Lumagen VP? Does this work?

My understanding is that the following works:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Integra DTC-9.8

I have asked the same question on the Oppo thread as well.
Thanks.
post #261 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by euryd View Post

Hi,

I have the following setup:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Lumagen Radiance XE --> Integra DTC-9.8

Has anyone tried playing SACD dsd thru the Lumagen VP? Does this work?

My understanding is that the following works:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Integra DTC-9.8

I have asked the same question on the Oppo thread as well.
Thanks.

i PCM everything (HDMI 1.1 receiver), but if you send me your Integra and i'll check. hopefully someone will chime in who has better equipment than me!

seriously though, have you tried the direct connection to the Integra both ways to see if DSD vs. PCM is noticably better?
post #262 of 1347
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by euryd View Post

Hi,

I have the following setup:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Lumagen Radiance XE --> Integra DTC-9.8

Has anyone tried playing SACD dsd thru the Lumagen VP? Does this work?

My understanding is that the following works:

Oppo BDP-83 (dsd) --> Integra DTC-9.8

I have asked the same question on the Oppo thread as well.
Thanks.

I think I've seen this question before on the Lumagen forums, and the answer is no, the XE doesn't pass DSD.
post #263 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewski11 View Post

i PCM everything (HDMI 1.1 receiver), but if you send me your Integra and i'll check. hopefully someone will chime in who has better equipment than me!

seriously though, have you tried the direct connection to the Integra both ways to see if DSD vs. PCM is noticably better?

I am not familiar with the actual encoding of DSD versus PCM. That is I do not know if this is a lossy conversion. If it is not lossy then they should be the same. Listening tests can be deceptive. My thoughts are that if the encoding began as DSD, any conversion at best would be equal, at worst it would not be as good.
post #264 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave G View Post

I think I've seen this question before on the Lumagen forums, and the answer is no, the XE doesn't pass DSD.

Thanks, but that is too bad. It would have been nice if the Radiance had a true pass thru mode which passes thru the original signal un-touched.
post #265 of 1347
I just tried PCM from an SACD disc, and it works. That is, I tried:

Oppo BDP-83 (PCM) --> Lumagen Radiance XE --> Integra DTC-9.8
post #266 of 1347
Keep in mind if you want anything other than "direct" mode on your 9.8, it will convert to PCM anyway. So, if you want Audyssey correction, you are already converting to PCM.
post #267 of 1347
Any idea when the PIP Swap button gets utilized in a FW update?

Mike
post #268 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post

Keep in mind if you want anything other than "direct" mode on your 9.8, it will convert to PCM anyway. So, if you want Audyssey correction, you are already converting to PCM.

I had hoped to use the direct mode on the Integra but I would admit that unless one has a perfectly balanced speaker system, using the Audyssey would be a great help.

Right now I have an EMM Labs mutichannel setup which goes thru the 6 channel pre-amp of the Integra. By having the Oppo-bdp83 stream DSD thru HDMI to the Integra, I would be able to not have to have a separate SACD setup. It would be a great convenience.
post #269 of 1347
Quote:


Any idea when the PIP Swap button gets utilized in a FW update?

The 102509 update laid a lot of groundwork necessary to get to the Pip swap feature. Probably a few (2-4) weeks out---sorry it's hard to pin down exactly as unexpected challenges pop up often and we sometimes get sidetracked fixing bugs.
post #270 of 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick harkin View Post

The 102509 update laid a lot of groundwork necessary to get to the Pip swap feature. Probably a few (2-4) weeks out---sorry it's hard to pin down exactly as unexpected challenges pop up often and we sometimes get sidetracked fixing bugs.

Patrick -

Thanks.
I wasn't even necessarily expecting an answer that concrete.
Sounds great.

Mike
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