Official RadianceXD support thread - Page 34

From page 23 of the manual:

Game Mode
To minimize video processing latency, when playing video games, turn “Game Mode” on. Interlaced sources
480i/576i/1080i are treated as 240p/288p/540p. PiP/PoP, Deinterlacing, and Enhance settings are not available
Typically game mode is enabled for a specific input memory that is then selected while playing games. For games
that have a vertical rate that matches the Radiance output vertical rate, turning “Genlock” on can further minimize
video latency. Game mode is not intended for video/film program material, such as television shows.
The command is:
MENU ® Input ® Video Setup ® [Resolution] ® Control ® Game Mode ® (On, Off)

With the latest firmware we can also access directly to GAME MODE with the following shortcut which works with the remote as well as RS232:

MENU, 1, 4

The shortcuts are available in this Tip 13-Radiance direct commands and menu shortcuts PDF document.

Many others tips are available on this Lumagen page: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=manuals

If the Denon AVR has video processing, it may have much more delay than anything the Radiance does. Some Denon models have a "Through" mode that supposedly bypasses processing, but my tests have indicated that input signals and output signals are still different even when you use the Through mode. For gaming, you may need to connect the console to the Radiance, and one of the Radiance HDMI outputs back to the Denon for audio (assuming your Radiance model has dual HDMI outputs).

Sounds like I should feed the xbox directly to the Radiance instead of through the denon, that's fine because i only use headphones, don't need the audio.

However, since it's outputting 1080p, does "game mode" still apply? Above it is referring to non-HD modes. though it sounds like genlock is a good idea.

Setting the Radiance to Game Mode is a good choice when you connect a game system. This mode uses a simple and fast deinterlacing method, turns off some of the enhancements, and gives you the lowest video latency. The latency is also lower for a 1080p input.

1. Select the input that is connected to the game system.
2. Press "Menu, Input, Video Setup, [resolution], Control, Game Mode, On, Ok".
3. Make sure that you "Save" the new setting.

Best regards,
Randy Freeman
Lumagen

So best to output 1080P from the game system vs. 1080i? Thanks. SJ

I have made significant progress in my research and planning for the installation of the Radiance XS-3D into my dual-display setup. Attached is the updated document.

It turns out that my configuration may be simpler than I orginally thought, as both displays should (optimally) be sent either 1080/60p or 1080/24p. However, the RS-35 has an issue handling 1080/60p HDMI 4:2:2 with Video levels, so Greg Rogers recommended sending either 1080/60p HDMI 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 with manual selection of PC (Enhanced) levels in the RS-35, and then re-calibrate black and white.

I realize that ideally the HDMI levels (Video or PC) be matched between sources and the Lumagen and between the Lumagen and the display device(s), but can a mismatch in the output be overcome by adjustments in the display device?

Is there a way to set the Radiance XS-3D to output 4:2:2 with PC (aka Enhanced) video levels? According to the Output HDMI Format section on page 17 of the manual, I do not see where this is possible:

Output HDMI Format
You can specify the digital output range as “RGB-PC level” (e.g. for 8-bit 0 to 255) or “RGB-Video level” (e.g. for 8-
bit 16 to 235). “YCbCr 422” is the recommended output format. For the HDMI RGB output, setting the level as
video allows blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white. The command is:
MENU ® Output ® Styles ® [Style] ® HDMI Format ® Type ® (YCbCr422, YCbCr444. RGBPC
level, RGB-Video level)

I did find that you can change the HDMI level on the input, as noted in page 19 of the manual:

HDMI Level
This command specifies if the HDMI inputs use video levels or PC levels. he input video level should be set to
match the expected range of your video source. A mismatch can cause the image to be too dark or bright. An
output video level mismatch can also have the same effect. The command is:
MENU ® Input ® HDMI Setup ® Level ® (Video, PC)

Thanks.

Mark

Edit: File removed, as there is a current version posted below.
Edited by giomania - 8/1/12 at 10:53am

YCbCr video is just specified for video levels. PC levels are only available with RGB output.

No idea what source Greg's refering to when he recommends 4:2:2 with PC levels. If your beamer is better with PC levels, there's no reason not to send full range RGB. Just set the Radiance's output to RGB with PC levels and the Radiance will convert all incoming signals to this colorspace.

Colorspaces and levels are not technically related, just that YUV happens to usually be used with TV levels. I recommend using PC levels as much as possible for extra precision in the processing applied to the picture, especially for TVs that support PC level input. I still recommend PC levels between all sources and the VP when possible, even if you have to convert back to TV levels between the VP and the TV. The VP will do its processing with whatever precision it uses, and then it will convert back to the output resolution (not the video resolution, but the generic term) - if TV levels, it will dump more of the precision than if PC levels. It's not like you are going to be getting pixel-perfect output to begin with because the whole point of adding a VP is for it to change the picture. If the Radiance does not allow PC levels in YUV colorspace, then it is a flaw of the VP, because the idea is absolutely 100% valid and Lumagen should not put such an arbitrary limitation on their expensive-as-heck VP. If I wanted my hand to be held when setting up my video, then I wouldn't be using a VP. (Disclosure: I do not have a Radiance, but I am hoping to upgrade to one at some point. I have a DVDO Edge currently and previously had a VP50, and neither of them really makes me happy. I do a lot of video processing using AVISynth on my PC as well.)

There is absolute no reason to use TV levels when PC levels are an option. Like interlacing and YUV 4:2:0 (which was at one point necessary in order to save bandwidth/bitrate with the chroma channels, but is not necessary today even though it is still unfortunately in common use), TV levels are an archaic idea that should have gone extinct ages ago, but is somehow holding on. All HDTV standards should have totally dropped all official support for TV levels, and should have required that any video already using TV levels be automatically converted to PC levels when being converted into a HDTV transmission standard. I personally find it extremely annoying how old technology has a habit of hanging on. We get half-assed technology because people are too afraid of breaking stuff, yet they go and give us headaches with useless technologies like HDCP instead of trying to improve technology instead.

To the guy who asked if display adjustments can correct this, it depends. If your signal uses PC levels but is decoded as using TV levels then the blacks and whites will both be crushed and you won't be able to undo that. If the other way around, then you may be able to use brightness, contrast and possibly gamma corrections to fix it, but it wouldn't be ideal. Still better than the first example though.
Edited by DonoMan - 7/26/12 at 12:07pm

I would say it depends on the processor and the display. On the later DVDO/ABT machines for example you get 10-bit output with YCbCr 4:2:2, but only 8-bit with everything else. I might not make a visible difference, but it was a reason to stick to the one or the other

Fair enough, and good to know.

Greg was referring to setting the RS-35 to "Enhanced" mode to get around the clipped blacks in the "Standard" mode. Now that I re-read it again closely before posting, he mentions that "Enhanced" mode is intended for digital RGB-PC input signals. So, it is basically what you said above: "set the Radiance's output to RGB with PC levels". It would seem I have no choice, even though Lumagen recommends sending YCbCr 4:2:2 out from the Radiance.

I have posted the full section from his review for reference:

HDMI Compatibility

The two HDMI 1.3 inputs accept 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p60/50, 1080i60/50, and 1080p60/50/24 digital video signals, and up to 1920 x 1200 (60 Hz) digital PC signals. The HDMI inputs accept 4:2:2
YCbCr signals, and RGB or 4:4:4 YCbCr signals with up to 12-bit Deep Color. Those signal types can be automatically or manually selected in the on-screen menu. Manual selection of the signal type is important so a user can override automatic selection if there are problems with any particular type of source signal.

The correct color-decoding matrix (Rec. 709) was automatically selected for high-definition YCbCr signals, but was incorrectly selected for standard-definition YCbCr signals. Only RGB signals produced correct color with a 480i/p or 576i/p HDMI connection. JVC needs to correct that problem and should consider also adding manual selection of the Rec. 601 (SD) and Rec. 709 (HD) color-decoding matrices because there have been multiple upconverting DVD players that output YCbCr signals with the wrong color encoding.

Automatic or manual selection of Standard and Enhanced HDMI/DVI levels is provided. The Standard mode is intended for YCbCr and RGB-video input signals (black at digital code 16 and reference white at 235), and the Enhanced mode is intended for digital RGB-PC input signals (black at 0 and reference white at 255). However, the Standard mode clipped incoming digital signals below level 16 (black) and above level 235 (reference white). Although signal levels below black aren’t intended to be seen, the headroom above reference white (digital level 235) is provided for video signal excursions that may occur in video sources during capture and processing. To prevent possible signal clipping, use the Enhanced mode and recalibrate the Brightness and Contrast controls for the proper black level and headroom above reference white.

Thanks for the input.

Mark

Hi guys.....I am new to the lumagen family and calibration. I was looking into the calman software with the i1display. I saw a video on Youtube that showed the calman program doing an autocal with the DVDO processor. My question is, will the autocal work with the radianceXD?

Travis

Yes with the appropriate CALMAN licenses. I use this feature on my XE3D with great results. SJ

I want to verify my understanding of how the Radiance works. In my setup, I want to send only 1080p24 or 1080p60 (up-converted from 480i, 720p, and 1080i). I think to do ensure this happens, I need to set up two of the eight Output configuration memories for 1080p24 and 1080p60, as noted in Radiance Tech Tip 4?

Thanks.

Mark

yes, you would set up two output MODE settings to those resolutions and refresh rates and then you would assign them to work with the input resolutions you choose.

Thanks Gordon. It would seem they changed the term from "Config" (0 through 7) to "Mode" since the Tech Tip was written, but that did not dawn on me until your post. I checked in the manual, and "Mode" is what is noted in the manual. I have updated my setup document (attached) as a result. I think this is the final edit of the format, unless I got something wrong.

Mark

Edit: Attachment removed, as an updated version is posted below.
Edited by giomania - 9/11/12 at 10:52am

Wanted to validate that the XE3D will not pass DSD? I tried to get this to work and found some old posts indicating this would not pass through. Even my old DUO could do this. SJ

Absolutely. You do still need to "save" after the calibration is done though. Calman had a Radiance workflow that will work you through.

I installed my Radiance XS-3D (purchased used) this weekend, and I have noticed the remote response is not that great; you have to press the buttons for about 1 second to get a response from the unit. I am using the 3.5mm IR input on the back of the unit, and have not had issues with other components in my system. I have fresh batteries in the remote.

I was wondering if this is normal behavior for the Radiance line? Is it normal when using the IR input on the back, and using a flasher on the front is better?

Thanks for any input.

Mark

My remote via the rear jack works perfectly. They have a tech document on using that port IIRC. Maybe you have it wired wrong.

I use a flasher in the front without any issue. I have not tried using the IR input so I cant help you there.

Thanks for the input. I did not wire it, I used a 3.5mm mono cable, as I do with some of my other equipment. It works fine, but the remote response does not work that well. If you press the "menu" button very quickly, does the menu then come up, or do you have to press and hold the menu button to have the menu appear? Also, with the IR input in use on the back, the IR input on the front will not receive commands; is that normal?

Thanks.

Mark

Is the cable you used go to a IR repeater box, or is it just to a IR sensor? I do not think it is designed for just a sensor. I personally could not get the back input to work (I do have a repeater box), but then again I did not use the resistor they recommend in the tech document on their web site (for models with certain S/N's). I just use a flasher in the front for now.

I am using a Niles repeater box. I disconnected the cable on the back to test the remote, and it works great from the front IR receiver. I am going to update the software, as it is old, and see if that improves things. Otherwise, I guess I have to use a flasher; seems like a waste, when you have a port on the back.


Mark

For DirecTV I have always used PC level 4:4:4 out. It really is the sweet spot for football and squeezing out that little extra bit of eye candy.

Mine is wired to a URC MSC-400. I wired it. I get the same response through the URC system as I get with the stock IR remote.

Which DirecTV receiver do you have? I dont see that option on mine. I have the HR22-100.

Yeah I would like to know how you do that? When I had my HDQ using DVI it would force my DVR to output RGB but at video levels. Connected to HDMI it outputs 4:4:4 at video levels. There is no color space selection on my HR20 and HR23.

No change after loading the current software, but I didn't really expect any change. I stuck an IR flasher on the front and am moving on.

Mark