The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 375

That's enough to make me wonder if it's worth getting a BD player..
Is it really as bad as they make it sound, surely not...
Sonny

The 72Hz mode eliminates judder caused by pulldown (number of displayed frames not being an integer multiple of number of recorded frames), but it can't eliminate the choppiness caused by only having 24 frames to start with.

The real solution is frame interpolation, but no plasma display does that yet. I'm hoping DVDO will do it eventually.

I certainly prefer 24p playback for BDs on my 151.

progprog, I know you run your set in Powersave mode 2 (as do I). Did this pose your calibrator any problems? Did he inform you of any risks calibrating the set in this mode?

??

What do you mean? The Kuro does it in "smooth" mode. It has some issues, but I like the effect it gives.

No, he seemed to have had experience with people running it that way. He knew right away that it was probably for buzz-control, and just calibrated as it that way.

There's the Tools menu, but I think that only lets you change the overall AV Mode. I agree that the menu system is a little "intrusive."


Here are some previous models' URC codes, which will likely work. If not, the raw IR codes are also available.

Thx for the reply, prog^2.


I'll try some of the more quieter disc to see if it's that noticeable...it just may be impending tinnitus from years of heavy metal. It's definitely not the same as the buzz (which is only barely audible when your ear is next to the panel). The high pitch sounds like "typical" electronics noises.

So far, I'm just accruing components and I have the s/w out of the 151FD to the JLA F113. (my old school 2ch pre doesn't have sub out) I can barely hear the sub. In demo mode, it's low and loud. More tweaking I suppose. Can one turn up the sub out from the 151?


Thx again...

Hedwig

Good to know, thanks.

I've been on the fence getting my set calibrated. I am quite skeptical about some people's reactions to their calibrated sets (as in it being significantly better than before). I know all too well the psychological factors at play with something this subjective. (I'm reminded of the whole audio cable scene, e.g. Pear cables, which is all a bunch of nonsense.)

Unless there is a properly executed double-blind controlled trial showing that the calibrated 151FD is preferred to the uncalibrated 151FD, I may always be skeptical.

(My skepticism presupposes that the 151 from the factory is not seriously misadjusted to begin with, however.)

Your skepticism is justified. I don't see a night and day difference like some others claim. But I do see improvement. D-Nice and others describe the ISF modes as something between PERFORMANCE and PURE, and I think that's an excellent description. The color accuracy is better, especially with HD content (TV signals are too variable to make generalizations), and it doesn't have that "blandness" that many find disappointing in PURE mode.

All that said, I had pretty good PQ before with my own tweaked version of PERFORMANCE mode. When I switch back and forth between that and the calibrated ISFnight, the differences are subtle.

Calibration is not for everyone but a big majority of people are happy

my 111 arrived today from 6th eve electronics..looks fantastic..messing with pure mode to bd player and HD dvd player as well as optimum using sensor to hd cable box....had to let this baby warm up b4 setting up as it was delivered cold..in storm this am...

funny what an optical illusion occurs when attaching speakers to sides..it makes screen look so small..yet the tv is as big as the 5010 I am returning..which looks monstrous sitting on floor

really liked the 5010....but this baby is just great

anyway to access the service menu?..I know how to do it with the 5010..but doesn't work with this tv

I second that. Plus ISF-DAY is great for, well, daytime viewing . Nice and bright to cut through the screen reflections. So you get 51 ft-cd brightness and all the color accuracy you'd expect from a properly calibrated set.

I haven't seen too many posts of those that are disatisfied after a calibration. Is there anyone (or at least anyone that would admit it after spending a several hundred bucks if professionally calibrated) that is disatisfied with the effort to calibrate and do they regularly use Pure mode for their everyday viewing experience? Or is everyone that has calibrated their sets generally satisfied and using Pure mode for the majority of their viewing experience?

That would actually be an interesting poll (unless its already been done) to see whether those Plasma owners that have had their sets ISF calibrated, if they are using "Pure" mode without any adjustments for regular viewing. I think that would be the real measure of whether getting a set calibrated is really worth it.

Doesn't seem to make alot of sense to calibrate to the "director's standard" if in the end the user is only going to adjust the settings or use a viewing mode other than Pure for everyday viewing...or am I missing another reason why it would make sense to calibrate a set and then adjust the contrast, brightness, color settings anyways to the owner's sense of what they like best.

Just my opinion, but I'd think most people who have laid out the cash for a pro calibration will be using the ISFccc modes (ISF Day, ISF Night, and possibly ISF Auto). The ISFccc interface is the only one with enough adjustments to do a professional calibration. The user settings, such as Pure, cannot be tweaked the same way as an ISF setting.

When you use an ISF mode, you cannot adjust settings such as brightness and contrast. Menu options for these settings are greyed out.

I think that's the question however I didn't exactly ask it correctly. Do most folks that shelled out for a professional ISF calibration find that they are still watching their sets in ISF Day, Night or Auto or over time have they found themselves migrating back to the non-ISF viewing modes and manually adjusting their sets to what they find to be a better personal viewing experience?

If there were a way to poll folks on that question we would get a sense of what % of those that got their sets calibrated, actually got value from the effort.

I'm still breaking in the Elite, but I never did any tweaking of any sort to my prior TV after having it pro-calibrated.

IMO, I feel that a poll would not prove much, or atleast would not yield an accurate assessment of ones satisfaction with an ISF calibration.

Reason I feel this way, is that not all calibrations are created equal, and like in any profession, "we have our bad days".

I personally have tackled the art of calibration, and it most certainly is not as simple as one may think. There are so many variables, experience, and equipment being two of the most important factors.

Are you suggesting there's likely to be differences between a pro doing the calibration and a reasonably technical amateur following the calibration steps or that there can be differences between 2 pros doing an ISF calibration?

I thought the calibration was a relatively formula driven step-by-step process. Is there a mix or art and science to conducting an ISF calibration that requires a "pro's" eye to do correctly?

Although I've not yet had my 151 professionally calibrated, I did get ControlCAL some time ago and used a modified version of D-Nice's settings for the ISF modes. The ISF modes look so much better than the other modes that now I do all my viewing in the ISF modes.

Back in 2000 I bought what was then a highly rated CRT based RPTV (Toshiba 40H80). I did what tweaks I could without any measuring equipment(DVD Essentials disc, AVIA DVD, disabled SVM, service menu level adjustments, etc.) and thought the picture looked great!

Some time later I decided to use some bonus money to get a professional calibration based on comments I was reading on these forums. I was a bit nervous and wondered if I would really notice much difference. I had Gregg Loewen do the calibration and I was not disappointed; the picture looked so much better and more natural.

Based on that experience, and other comments on these threads regarding professional calibration on the 151, I plan on having my 151 professionally calibrated when I get enough hours on the set.

For reference, I prefer an accurate picture. Someone who prefers a more pumped up/hyper-real picture may not be thrilled with a professional calibration.

There are IR and serial codes that open the service menu, but they are not readily available (i.e., they're not in your stock remote or available on Pioneer's website). The calibration program ControlCAL allows you to access it as well.

I would only have a PRO do a calibration and even then you have to research on who the pro is.

Oh, on the contrary....the more you learn about it, the more you realize that there's a lot of "art" to the science and calibrator skill & experience is everything.

I misspoke (miswrote?) if I gave the impression I'm not happy with my calibration. I am happy with it. But I just wanted to convey that I don't see that huge might-and-day difference, and if it were considerably more expensive, I'd frankly question its value for those on tight budgets.

When talking to Gregg during the calibration of my Tosh RPTV, I definately was left with the impression that it is a mix of art and science. It's definately not as simple as just plugging in settings. Many settings interact with other settings which complicates matters. Also, I don't doubt that there can be differences between 2 pros doing a calibration (this assumes that when we say "pro", we mean someone who really knows what they are doing and not an average "Geek Squad pro").

I got what you meant

The best example I can give you is this... A gastric bypass is a gastric bypass, right? There are steps, and procedures that are taken. What makes one doctor better than the other, if they both learned the exact same thing?

So, yes, results can vary from calibrator to calibrator, both amateur, and professional.

one leaves a watch behind, other one leaves just a ring, which one's better ?

Sounds like both are from Best Buy Medical Center.

but it's a diamond ring !!!
i just couldn't help it ..