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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 403

post #12061 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by akubilius View Post

Pioneer is exiting display business due to restructuring. Amen to Kuro and infinite contrast prototype from CES two years ago. 151 and 141 were the last Elites we will have.

Deepest sympathies to all Kuro fans. It was fun.

My 151 is alive and well.
post #12062 of 28726
I am happy to know I got one of the last in a line of great products.
post #12063 of 28726
Hi, all:

Given what Pioneer just announced, I just went to my local B & M this morning and hopped on the 151 bus!

(My wife thinks it might not be such a hot idea to spend so much $$$ on a TV from a company in trouble. I have to admit a not insubstantial amount of trepidation about this, but my read on the situation is that this will likely be the best plasma in existence for the foreseeable future, due to the strong trend towards LED. Hopefully, I'll get a good one. Otherwise, I'll have to hope Pioneer (or others) will have parts to repair the thing if there is a problem in the next 2 years.)

Interestingly, one other guy showed up just before me to get the last 151 in the store (mine will arrive out of the warehouse in 4 days--they are down to single digits in the local warehouse (serving 2 stores)).

I apppreciate all the information here and everyone who helped me make the decision--it's now time to study up at AVS University on how to break this plasma in!
post #12064 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post

I just pulled the trigger on the 151FD and will take delivery on Tuesday. Just wondering if I should check my local university for a class on "How to Properly Break In Your New Elite"... LOL

Since I have never owned a Plasma before, I don't want to screw this baby up..

You will not screw it up. The break-in talk, in terms of the gross misunderstandings of its purpose and the debate over little details about how to do it, has become rather ridiculous. Before you get all worried about this stuff, take a deep breath and read up on the bigger picture, so to speak, rather than get caught up in picky points like how long to run each slide... It's really become quite silly.
post #12065 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Hi, all:

Given what Pioneer just announced, I just went to my local BB/Magnolia this morning and hopped on the 151 bus!
..................

I apppreciate all the information here and everyone who helped me make the decision--it's now time to study up at AVS University on how to break this plasma in!

Congrats on the new TV. Read my previous post.
post #12066 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Congrats on the new TV. Read my previous post.

Thanks, man--I promise not to obsess!

It's interesting to me how when I make a big purchase like a car, how important every little detail is and how no one better even breathe on it.

Then 6 months later, I'm eating cheeseburgers in the front seat.
post #12067 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Thanks, man--I promise not to obsess!

It's interesting to me how when I make a big purchase like a car, how important every little detail is and how no one better even breathe on it.

Then 6 months later, I'm eating cheeseburgers in the front seat.

LOL! I hear that! (My last vehicle was the "nicest" one I'd ever bought, so I was going to keep it spotless. Now my beagle owns everything behind the driver's seat and the whole thing smells like dog. )
post #12068 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

You will not screw it up. The break-in talk, in terms of the gross misunderstandings of its purpose and the debate over little details about how to do it, has become rather ridiculous. Before you get all worried about this stuff, take a deep breath and read up on the bigger picture, so to speak, rather than get caught up in picky points like how long to run each slide... It's really become quite silly.

Has anyone ever considered writing a sticky post, or even putting something up on another site which is a stock response to break-in questions? I think this thread might be about 1/2 as long (or less) if all the talk of break-in were "nipped in the bud" if you will.

I almost wrote something yesterday, but my baby interrupted me.
post #12069 of 28726
For those of you who are using a Pioneer Blu-Ray player
Do you set your video to 'pioneer pdp' or to 'professionl' on the BD Player?

Thanks
post #12070 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncfoster View Post

Has anyone ever considered writing a sticky post, or even putting something up on another site which is a stock response to break-in questions? I think this thread might be about 1/2 as long (or less) if all the talk of break-in were "nipped in the bud" if you will.

I almost wrote something yesterday, but my baby interrupted me.

Nice idea, but it wouldn't make any difference. If you scan through a bit, you'll see that many (if not most) new posters don't search the threads or even read back a little before asking their questions. I've seen long detailed discussions about something in the morning and then, that evening, someone will ask the same question as if it's never come up before. Happens all the time.

Also, when it comes to break-in, there is no right way to do it, or even consensus on whether to do it, so any attempt at a definitive exposition would just lead to more debate and discussion. That's just kinda what we do here. As long as it stays civil, it's all good.

(PS: You get pretty good at skimming over the redundant stuff....)
post #12071 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiandude View Post

For those of you who are using a Pioneer Blu-Ray player
Do you set your video to 'pioneer pdp' or to 'professionl' on the BD Player?

Thanks

Where are those settings? I have a Pioneer BD player, but I've never seen that option. (Or is that the new "Kuro Link" thing?)
post #12072 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Where are those settings? I have a Pioneer BD player, but I've never seen that option. (Or is that the new "Kuro Link" thing?)


When you have a BD movie in just hit the Video Adjust button (lower left) and it will pop up your choices and options
post #12073 of 28726
I have a 5020 and sharpest perfect dot by dot mode is available using PC mode.

Unfortunately, PC mode elevates the black level.

Can perfect dot by dot sharp as a tack text be attained in other modes?
Does PC mode elevate black levels?

I ask because I am considering a 151 to be used with my Lumagen Radiance XE and scaler.

Thanks,

- Rich
post #12074 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have a 5020 and sharpest perfect dot by dot mode is available using PC mode.

Unfortunately, PC mode elevates the black level.

Can perfect dot by dot sharp as a tack text be attained in other modes?
Does PC mode elevate black levels?

I ask because I am considering a 151 to be used with my Lumagen Radiance XE and scaler.

Thanks,

- Rich

Not sure what you mean, but you can certainly use DOTxDOT with any of the AV modes (with the appropriate signals). And any of them can be tweaked to your sharpness and black-level preferences. What source are you using?
post #12075 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Not sure what you mean, but you can certainly use DOTxDOT with any of the AV modes (with the appropriate signals). And any of them can be tweaked to your sharpness and black-level preferences. What source are you using?

To see what I mean connect a PC at 1920x1080 and look at the right menu text. On the 5020, it is sharp and perfect. In other modes, a bit of a shimmer and sharpness cannot be acheived with the "sharpness" control.

Also, the black level is raised in PC mode.

- Rich
post #12076 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiandude View Post

For those of you who are using a Pioneer Blu-Ray player
Do you set your video to 'pioneer pdp' or to 'professionl' on the BD Player?

Thanks


Professional.
post #12077 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiandude View Post

For those of you who are using a Pioneer Blu-Ray player
Do you set your video to 'pioneer pdp' or to 'professionl' on the BD Player?

Thanks

There is a separate thread for the Pio BD player 05/51. The recommendation there has been to set it to "Professional" mode.
post #12078 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Nice idea, but it wouldn't make any difference. If you scan through a bit, you'll see that many (if not most) new posters don't search the threads or even read back a little before asking their questions. I've seen long detailed discussions about something in the morning and then, that evening, someone will ask the same question as if it's never come up before. Happens all the time.

Also, when it comes to break-in, there is no right way to do it, or even consensus on whether to do it, so any attempt at a definitive exposition would just lead to more debate and discussion. That's just kinda what we do here. As long as it stays civil, it's all good.

(PS: You get pretty good at skimming over the redundant stuff....)

Well, my idea was basically to write up FAQ that was as neutral and factual as possible. Then if enough of the regular posters would get in the habit of just posting links to that, there would be less in the way of redundant responses (Basically, we don't need to re-hash the debate every time someone asks a question).

A few items might be:

Why should I "break-in" my Kuro?

The two main stated purposes of a "break-in" procedure are to avoid "burn-in" and to evenly and predictably age the phosphors in the set. The reason most people care about predictably aging phosphors is to use D-Nice's ISF settings.

Will I destroy my expensive new Kuro if I don't perform the "break-in" procedure?:

There is no consensus, even amongst AV enthusiasts as to whether this process continues to be useful to avoid "burn-in". Many will take a better safe-than-sorry approach due to the cost of these sets, even though there are virtually no reports of "burn-in" on Kuros, even with video games.

Does it matter whether I watch TV and movies before or during the break-in process?

It depends:

1) If you are intending to use any of the settings posted by D-Nice: D-Nice's procedure is designed to control as many variables as possible. It is not a magic procedure which makes your Kuro better. It is a procedure that helps make sure that your Kuro is as similar to the one he calibrated as you can without making your own measurements.

He advises that you follow the posted procedure to the letter if you want the best results from his settings, and he says that he has observed worse results on sets which have not followed this procedure. That said, many are perfectly happy with the results without following the break-in procedure.

Whether you use the DVD or the thumb-drive is considered irrelevant in terms of the results achieved.

2) If you are intending to calibrate your set either professionally or on your own: If you are going to get the set calibrated professionally, just put 150+ hours of usage on the set, which can include the break-in DVD or not. Most would suggest avoiding a LOT of 4:3 or letter-boxed content during this stage, but watching several letter-boxed blu-rays to appreciate the picture on your new toy will not hurt anything if you are mixing in plenty of full-screen content. The "break-in" DVD or thumb-drive used in D-Nice's procedure are relatively safe and easy ways to put more hours of usage on your Kuro when you aren't watching it, but you don't have to use it.

Some calibrators have different numbers of target hours that they ask for, as it is not an exact science. Very few will care whether you followed any particular "break-in" process. Since they have precise calibration tools, they will calibrate YOUR panel, and whether they achieve great results will depend primarily on their tools and abilities, not how you used your Kuro before the calibration.

3) If you are just going to enjoy your set without worrying about all this calibration stuff: Enjoy your TV and just make sure to watch a good deal of full-screen programming, especially in the first 150 hours.

"Burn-in": Plasma technology has historically had problems with screen "burn-in" from static images or excessive viewing with images that fill less than the entire screen. Because many people have seen an old ruined plasma screen, or because some guy at an electronics store told them that plasmas have this problem, people generally worry about this more than they need to. While such problems can still occur, they are exceptionally rare on the latest Kuros (even with video games, but 1000 hours straight of Guitar Hero will probably hurt your screen, not to mention your brain and your social life).

Note that many AVS Forum members will mock you if you use "burn-in" to refer to the previously mentioned "break-in" process.
post #12079 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncfoster View Post

Well, my idea was basically to write up FAQ that was as neutral and factual as possible. Then if enough of the regular posters would get in the habit of just posting links to that, there would be less in the way of redundant responses (Basically, we don't need to re-hash the debate every time someone asks a question).

Well, good luck with that! Not trying to be facetious, but there are several points in your post that many would not consider neutral or factual, and they will not simply accept it and link it as the final word on break-in.

Really, I do get and appreciate the point you're making. I just think this particular subject is controversial enough that you'll never get everyone to agree, so the same old arguments/discussions would come up whether your post is linked or not.
post #12080 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have a 5020 and sharpest perfect dot by dot mode is available using PC mode.

Unfortunately, PC mode elevates the black level.

Can perfect dot by dot sharp as a tack text be attained in other modes?
Does PC mode elevate black levels?



I ask because I am considering a 151 to be used with my Lumagen Radiance XE and scaler.

Thanks,

- Rich

You can control the black levels in the 151-255-06 16-235 but I use the video mode with an Nvidia card for most PC use via DVI to HDMI. For adjustments I have set game to very low contrast. For TT and slides I use D-nice's day settings.
post #12081 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

You will not screw it up. The break-in talk, in terms of the gross misunderstandings of its purpose and the debate over little details about how to do it, has become rather ridiculous. Before you get all worried about this stuff, take a deep breath and read up on the bigger picture, so to speak, rather than get caught up in picky points like how long to run each slide... It's really become quite silly.

I agree. I've had an elite plasma for 4.5 years and I never knew about "break-in" procedures until I found these forums. I have never had 1 issue with my TV, except it just got moved to another room to make a spot for the new 111. I would love to try thr break-in process advocated by D-Nice, but I fear I would have an all red screen stuck on my new KURO.
post #12082 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbobak View Post

It's here!! Woo-hoo! My PRO-151FD is sitting in a box in the foyer of my home!

It arrived in pristine condition, with not so much as a scrape on the box and an intact tip sensor showing no problems. So, that's a relief. Now I just need to figure out how to unbox this monster!

Congrats! Enjoy!
post #12083 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

You can control the black levels in the 151-255-06 16-235 but I use the video mode with an Nvidia card for most PC use via DVI to HDMI. For adjustments I have set game to very low contrast. For TT and slides I use D-nice's day settings.

I understand. But the video level does not change the minumum black level of PC mode. I have tried all combinations.

- Rich
post #12084 of 28726
Here are some pics of my new pro151 I got today.





I suck at taking pictures. I like the brightness during the day. I have two 4'x4' panels of windows directly behind my seating position. I find Pure to be fine during the day...although it was a bit overcast today.

My only issue is, if I use dot by dot, sometimes on certain hd stations the left side of the screen has a few rows of pixels that are not on vertically. If I put it in full mode it fills the screen. I think it's an issue with my cable box and the formatting.

Also, I have a ps3, how do I know I'm getting 24p playback on the panel. Is there a way to show that info?

Sorry for the noob questions.
post #12085 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by amill94 View Post

Here are some pics of my new pro151 I got today.

My only issue is, if I use dot by dot, sometimes on certain hd stations the left side of the screen has a few rows of pixels that are not on vertically. If I put it in full mode it fills the screen. I think it's an issue with my cable box and the formatting.

Also, I have a ps3, how do I know I'm getting 24p playback on the panel. Is there a way to show that info?

Sorry for the noob questions.

It's not an issue with the cable box, but with the cable signal itself. The only way to eliminate it is to use overscan like you get with FULL.

As long you have the PS3 set to output 1080p/24, you can trust that the Kuro is receiving it that way. If you really want to satisfy your curiosity though (), you need to change the HDMI type to PC, then hit the DISPLAY button. To do this, you go to MENU>SETUP>OPTION>HDMI INPUT. Be sure to change it back after you're done.
post #12086 of 28726
amill94, nice setup congrats and welcome to the Kuro Elite Club.

yes, you will get some trash lines on the side or top sometimes from some ota /sat/cable channels using Dot by Dot mode, as you found out just use full to cover if it's giving you trouble.
post #12087 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by amill94 View Post

Here are some pics of my new pro151 I got today.

Very nice.

Quote:


My only issue is, if I use dot by dot, sometimes on certain hd stations the left side of the screen has a few rows of pixels that are not on vertically. If I put it in full mode it fills the screen. I think it's an issue with my cable box and the formatting.

Certain channels cause this phenomena. It is not the televsions fault. In
Dot by Dot mode the panel is displaying every pixel with no overscan.
Dot by Dot is only available on 1080i and 1080p material.

When you use Full there is a 2 or 3% overscan.

Quote:


Also, I have a ps3, how do I know I'm getting 24p playback on the panel. Is there a way to show that info?

Sorry for the noob questions.

Under HDMI Input change "signal type" to PC and press the display button, it should display the input that the panel is receiving.
post #12088 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

It's not an issue with the cable box, but with the cable signal itself. The only way to eliminate it is to use overscan like you get with FULL.

As long you have the PS3 set to output 1080p/24, you can trust that the Kuro is receiving it that way. If you really want to satisfy your curiosity though (), you need to change the HDMI type to PC, then hit the DISPLAY button. To do this, you go to MENU>SETUP>OPTION>HDMI INPUT. Be sure to change it back after you're done.

Darn it progprog, you beat me to it.
post #12089 of 28726
Thanks for the info guys. I really love this tv. I came from a Toshiba DLP from 2004. I have a panasonic in my bedroom, but the pioneer absolutely destroys it in pq. I absolutely love this tv. Again, thanks for the info guys.
post #12090 of 28726
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish95 View Post

I agree. I've had an elite plasma for 4.5 years and I never knew about "break-in" procedures until I found these forums. I have never had 1 issue with my TV, except it just got moved to another room to make a spot for the new 111. I would love to try thr break-in process advocated by D-Nice, but I fear I would have an all red screen stuck on my new KURO.


Thanks for the heads up.. I was hoping it wouldn't be all that complicated.. The good news is, I will be having it ISF calibrated in a few weeks..
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