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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 42

post #1231 of 30263
OK. So I've read that many are finding the best PQ to be in Pure mode, however on my 151, I'm seeing Optimum as giving the best PQ. Is there something I'm not seeing? In Pure mode, the picture I'm seeing from a cable source, is dull and dark, whereas is Optimum, the picture is clean and sharp with with good color.
I'm also seeing that in Optimum, some of the settings are cranked to their max. Is this not good? Should I be veiwing and breaking in, in Pure?
post #1232 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by darita View Post

OK. So I've read that many are finding the best PQ to be in Pure mode, however on my 151, I'm seeing Optimum as giving the best PQ. Is there something I'm not seeing? In Pure mode, the picture I'm seeing from a cable source, is dull and dark, whereas is Optimum, the picture is clean and sharp with with good color.
I'm also seeing that in Optimum, some of the settings are cranked to their max. Is this not good? Should I be veiwing and breaking in, in Pure?

I think there's something to be said for personal taste. If you like Optimum best, use it. That's what it's there for. Of course a calibrated set is more "accurate," but some people like more pop, some like warmer colors, etc. People go to great lengths to correctly calibrate audio systems as well, and then crank up the bass just because they prefer it that way. There's nothing wrong with that.

We don't all have to use the same settings. If you find the settings you like best, those are the right ones for your TV.
post #1233 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaracks View Post

Which modes are those and better how? And what is "4:3 HD 'signaled' content". Is that like what you get from cable boxes that output everything 1080i, with black sidebars added to SD stuff?

I've been pretty happy with the asymmetrical stretch mode of full 4:3 content, it's much better than our last TV. I am disappointed that I can't seem to zoom on letterboxed 4:3 content sent as 1080i from the FiOS box. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Tamaracks - does the Fios box have a setting for outputting to a 4x3 television versus widescreen? The reason I ask is that I noticed that if I set my Drectv DVR to 4x3, I can actually use the DVRs "Crop" setting and my 111's "ZOOM" mode to get a 4x3 letterboxed image on an HD channel to fill the screen without horizontal distortion. It works for other resolutions as well. It's a pain to have to keep changing modes, but I can't stand stretched people, and I have not noticed any degradation in picture quality in 4x3 vs 16x9.
post #1234 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I think there's something to be said for personal taste. If you like Optimum best, use it. That's what it's there for. Of course a calibrated set is more "accurate," but some people like more pop, some like warmer colors, etc. People go to great lengths to correctly calibrate audio systems as well, and then crank up the bass just because they prefer it that way. There's nothing wrong with that.

We don't all have to use the same settings. If you find the settings you like best, those are the right ones for your TV.


True, different strokes for different folks, but all the same I would definitely like to know if I'm viewing material that is "true to the source" or what the director/creator intended. After I know this fact then if I choose to monkey with the settings to create an image that I personally think looks better no matter how cartoonish, then so be it.
post #1235 of 30263
Hey guys I got to see a 111 at BB in Owings Mills, MD yesterday. They had a 5010 right above it to make for a nice comparison as well as a XBR5 and Sharp SE94 series on each side. Needless to say the 111 smoked every set up there. The shadow detail was excellent and the black level.....just amazing. The 111 was in movie mode and I used DNice's settings for the xx20 and it looked good on the 111. Had the 52A650 not been so damn color accurate I'd own one of these bad boys today after yesterdays experience. The 52A650 while good for a LCD, can't match the blacks. Enjoy your very nice sets!
post #1236 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi59 View Post

IFor some reason, I see more compreesion artifacts on the Kuro. This also was an immediate observation. I rarely noticed it at all on the Qualia at my sitting distance of 10 feet.

Hifi, compression artifacts are in the source, not the display. If you're seeing them more on the Kuro, then the Kuro is simply being truer to the source. Most videophiles strive for just that, a display that is true to the source. Now with that comes the good AND the bad. A less than perfect signal will look like just that on the Kuro, less than perfect. But when the source is great, the picture will be so too. I've never had an ounce of doubt when watching a true HD source as opposed to an upconvert...and yes, I too have the XA2 as well as the BD30 for BR. If you have any doubts there is something wrong in your adjustments. This display will show the full quality of an HD signal. Anything less is either source related or improper adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi59 View Post


With the Qualia, I rarely ever feel like I need to make adjustments to obtain a better image. I do with the Kuro. Again, I hope a FULL calibration will diminish these differences so that I can focus on the Kuros other strengths.

Other Kuro owners probably have not seen these things perhaps because they never owned a Sony Qualia which was calibrated by Umr!

Well sure, one display was ISF'd and the other hasn't. Not a real fair comparison if you ask me. But I too have seen a calibrated Qualia on several occasions and I was very impressed. But I've never been more impressed than with the Kuro's picture..on any display of any technology. The better blacks give a greater depth to the picture that the gray blacks of the Qualia simply don't provide. The better the CR the better the depth and the Kuros have a much greater CR than the Qualias. The 9g Kuro has a greater depth than my 8g Kuro, again due to the improved blacks. There's no getting around that. So why you would feel a greater sense of depth with poorer blacks defies logic. I'm guessing it's simply due to the additional 10" which could indeed make sense.
post #1237 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Holy ****! I finally got to see a 151 today. It was a Best Buy and even set up so that it faces out into the light part of the store, it still blew away anything I've ever seen. It was on an Optimum setting. I changed it to Pure and fell in love. Okay, I'll confess it. I've been toying with switching my 151 to a 141. But it's hard for me to imagine a picture better than this. Happy 4th of July everyone!

Uh oh, do I sense a wavering Vashti? Do I sense a wait until the 10g? Uh oh!
post #1238 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaracks View Post

Which modes are those and better how? And what is "4:3 HD 'signaled' content". Is that like what you get from cable boxes that output everything 1080i, with black sidebars added to SD stuff?

I've been pretty happy with the asymmetrical stretch mode of full 4:3 content, it's much better than our last TV. I am disappointed that I can't seem to zoom on letterboxed 4:3 content sent as 1080i from the FiOS box. Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.


I would like to know more about this as well. My FiOS box can send out 1080i for every broadcast signal, with 4x3 in black or grey bars. Alternately, I can send out 4x3 SD as 480i, and would like to know my best options. I don't like the "gradual stretch" with the center more correct than the sides. I would prefer an even zoom to automatically be applied to 480i inputs. The old PRO-7xxHD rear projection sets did this nicely.
post #1239 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Uh oh, do I sense a wavering Vashti? Do I sense a wait until the 10g? Uh oh!

Yeah, when I arranged with Robert the option to change from 151 to 141 if I chose to before I took delivery, I believe my comment was, "you know, i better not 'fess up to that on AVS." But 10th generation? Nope. (Repeat as needed.) Nope. no...
post #1240 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So why you would feel a greater sense of depth with poorer blacks defies logic. I'm guessing it's simply due to the additional 10" which could indeed make sense.

10 inches is mega mighty huge, expecially when the smaller of the 2 is already
a mighty 60 inches. Damn, that indeed would create a greater sense of depth.
Think about it for a sec... the damned thing is wide as hell, which facilitates a
greater sense of immersion for sure! Damn, it must be downright brutal to go
from 70 inches to 60 inches! I'm having a brutal time looking at 42 inches
after spending months on a 60 incher. I can certainly say that there's hardly
any sense of depth on the 42 incher in comparison. The lack of size is just
not convincing enough to my brain. Seriously, one can only go so far with
contrast in terms of creating a sensation. IMHO, size matters. By the way,
I've read that qualia is a fine TV is it not? It's not that ultra-expensive one I
hope? Wait, is this one a rear projection? Perhaps I'm getting things mixed up.
post #1241 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDCanHD View Post


That's one nice banana!
post #1242 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyPA View Post

Tamaracks - does the Fios box have a setting for outputting to a 4x3 television versus widescreen? The reason I ask is that I noticed that if I set my Drectv DVR to 4x3, I can actually use the DVRs "Crop" setting and my 111's "ZOOM" mode to get a 4x3 letterboxed image on an HD channel to fill the screen without horizontal distortion. It works for other resolutions as well. It's a pain to have to keep changing modes, but I can't stand stretched people, and I have not noticed any degradation in picture quality in 4x3 vs 16x9.

The FiOS box does not output native resolutions, you have to pick one. I would have to keep going into the settings and switching between 480i and 1080i, and I am not going to do that. The stretching doesn't bother me too much. The TV does a very good job of it. Not being able to minimize letterboxing when desired does kind of bother me, but hopefully there will be an ever increasing amount of HD content to watch. I was just hoping that maybe I was missing something.
post #1243 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I would like to know more about this as well. My FiOS box can send out 1080i for every broadcast signal, with 4x3 in black or grey bars. Alternately, I can send out 4x3 SD as 480i, and would like to know my best options. I don't like the "gradual stretch" with the center more correct than the sides. I would prefer an even zoom to automatically be applied to 480i inputs. The old PRO-7xxHD rear projection sets did this nicely.

When you say it can send SD as 480i, do you mean automatically, or only when you choose 480i in the video settings? I haven't heard of anything about the Fios HDDVR that will switch between resolutions automatically.

It looks like Wide2 is what you want, I think that is an even stretch of the 4x3 image, when my box is outputting 1080i with black bars. But I don't think you can use that setting on the TV while using the auto-sidemask setting, which seems to only do the asymmetrical stretch.
post #1244 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

By the way,
I've read that qualia is a fine TV is it not? It's not that ultra-expensive one I
hope? Wait, is this one a rear projection? Perhaps I'm getting things mixed up.

Any Sony w/the word "Qualia" attached was ONE VERY EXPENSIVE piece of gear. The Qualia 006 was a circa 2005, 1080p SXRD 70" RPTV w/a price tag hovering around $13,000. As this TV is only a few years old, I would be holding out for at least a 70" Kuro before updating. I hear you can still find a few Qualia 006's out there for a fraction of that 2005 price.
post #1245 of 30263
I just spent yesterday afternoon installing my Friends new 151 (purchased from Robert at Value Electronics).

No problems what so ever with the delivery. I should note that we could not get the delivery company to agree to let us open the box before signing. After speaking to his supervisor, we got them to agree to wait and take it back if it was damaged. Thankfully, it was in perfect condition.
Once you cut the straps, the box is apart for good. You have to have some straps available to put the box back together. We ended up taking the pieces in from the garage.

He was replacing an NEC XM2 60 inch plasma and thankfully the existing mount worked fine. Less work.

I was impressed with the Anti-Glare coating. Far superior to the NEC and certainly better than my 657UY.

Here are my viewing impressions which are limited to a couple of hours in a moderately lit room in the afternoon light.

The picture is stunning! The depth and colors was just unbelievable.
The first thing that struck me was the ability of this screen to product natural flesh tones while at the same time proving incredible color. The food channel HD was mind boggling.

I did see more MPEG artifacts that I am accustomed to with SD and some HD cable (we both have Comcast) and Tivo HD's with cable-card. I use a Lumagen Radiance video processor and its scaling algorithm seems to reduce this artifact. I had no time to play with the noise reduction options but I do not consider it a big deal.

We played a couple of Blu-rays and the picture was just astounding. No banding, fantastic flesh tones, detailed with great contrast. We used pure and even without much fiddling, I could be happy with this display. I was also impressed with the Panasonic 50Z85 plasma but there is no doubt that this displays in superior even in a lit room. Hopefully, I will get to see it a dark room soon. (I just could not stay, it was my wife birthday and she was very understanding to let me disappear for most of the day to help with the installation )

I decided to check out the buzz issue. I could hear it at 10 inches and it was a bit more noticeable placing my ear a few inches away and listening to different areas of the screen. It should like a 60Hz buzz that you sometime hear in a transformer. There was no way that this would be heard with the volume off from you seating position 10 feet away. I heard no fans, so this plasma is practically silent compared to my 65

At first we liked the Optimum but I switched to pure. We turned up the contrast to 47 see what that was like and it became fatiguing. We settled back at 42 and it was wonderful.

I cannot say enough good things about the picture. This is a wonderful display.

I still plan to wait to upgrade my 65 until next year since my wife does not take kindly to buying a plasma every year and we both would prefer to move to a larger size.

- Rich
post #1246 of 30263
Rich, thanks for the review! Let us know your impressions when you get to see it in the dark.
post #1247 of 30263
HDCanHD, I would recommend putting the TV on another stand. That stand is too small for that TV and the base is bowing and will likely eventually break the base of the TV. Or worse, it may break the TV itself...

Other than that, congrats on joinin' the club!!!
post #1248 of 30263
Just got my new 111FD (I'm in Canada, so put me down as the first Canadian?)... planning on hooking it up and running the break-in DVD. I am also looking forward to D-nice's settings as well.
post #1249 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hifi, compression artifacts are in the source, not the display. If you're seeing them more on the Kuro, then the Kuro is simply being truer to the source. Most videophiles strive for just that, a display that is true to the source. Now with that comes the good AND the bad. A less than perfect signal will look like just that on the Kuro, less than perfect. But when the source is great, the picture will be so too. I've never had an ounce of doubt when watching a true HD source as opposed to an upconvert...and yes, I too have the XA2 as well as the BD30 for BR. If you have any doubts there is something wrong in your adjustments. This display will show the full quality of an HD signal. Anything less is either source related or improper adjustments.



Well sure, one display was ISF'd and the other hasn't. Not a real fair comparison if you ask me. But I too have seen a calibrated Qualia on several occasions and I was very impressed. But I've never been more impressed than with the Kuro's picture..on any display of any technology. The better blacks give a greater depth to the picture that the gray blacks of the Qualia simply don't provide. The better the CR the better the depth and the Kuros have a much greater CR than the Qualias. The 9g Kuro has a greater depth than my 8g Kuro, again due to the improved blacks. There's no getting around that. So why you would feel a greater sense of depth with poorer blacks defies logic. I'm guessing it's simply due to the additional 10" which could indeed make sense.

Hi Ken. I agree. The Kuro is showing artifacts that the Qualia did not when watching Satellite. This was just an observation. Something that immediately struck me as odd. I can't explain it, but the HD video looks better and more 3d and more stable on the Qualia.

I understand fully that the better the blacks, the more 3D the image. The Kuro has this in spades no doubt. After another 24 hrs of veiwing the Kuro (pure mode and movie with some tweaking) I still say that the Q has a more 3D effect on VIDEO sources from satellite. (Dish 622 receiver). Its like you can reach in and touch with the Q. Ken, I believe it's due to the glass optics in the Sony that creates this effect Like I said earlier,It seems the Kuro 3D pops off the screen whereas the Q 3D goes deeper into the image. It's 70" size is probably helping this but at the same time I must say that I the Mitsu's ,while very immersive, do not have that same Qualia 3d effect.While I'm no expert on this subject matter, my viewing experiences date back to the early 80's when I bought my first real tv(monitor). A Proton 19" and 25". Followed by numerous Sony XBR's and rear projos,etc over the yrs . I only mention this Ken so you don't I am just an inexperienced viewer who is new to all this.

I have lived with 2 Qualias day after day over the last 3 years at 10 feet away and I know every inch of it's greatness (clarity,3D) and not so greatness (ultimate blacks,near blacks). The Kuro is indeed a great set,I love it and will keep it. Watching Pan's Labrynth on it last nite blew me away!. To be specific, I just prefer the image from the Qualia watching satellite HD from about 40 ire and above.
post #1250 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chem View Post

Just got my new 111FD (I\\'m in Canada, so put me down as the first Canadian?)... planning on hooking it up and running the break-in DVD. I am also looking forward to D-nice\\'s settings as well.

Sorry, I was #1. But you can still be #2.
post #1251 of 30263
I've been looking to get a Samsung 750 52" LCD for the past few months... always assumed (based on old information) that plasmas are still bad for gaming.. i haven't kept up-to-date with plasma technology... could someone fill me in please?

If gaming performance is as good or better, than the Samsung LCD.... i'm SOOOOO getting me one of these
post #1252 of 30263
hello everyone i am a newbie to posting 1st one i think anyway THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU TOALL D.NICE(YOUR WIDSOM TIME KNOWLEDGE IS SOOOO APPRECIATED) ON THE 18TH i will have my my 151 delivered i have the breakin dvd will run it the 150 hours with ? what setting? the more i read the more i don't understand my 1st plasma from a rptv have my hdmi cables will be buying elite blu-ray i think i sent ken ross a pm instead of this thread sorry ken thank you everyone
post #1253 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by pab1219 View Post

hello everyone i am a newbie to posting 1st one i think anyway THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU TOALL D.NICE(YOUR WIDSOM TIME KNOWLEDGE IS SOOOO APPRECIATED) ON THE 18TH i will have my my 151 delivered i have the breakin dvd will run it the 150 hours with ? what setting? the more i read the more i don't understand my 1st plasma from a rptv have my hdmi cables will be buying elite blu-ray i think i sent ken ross a pm instead of this thread sorry ken thank you everyone

A good first step would be to try to write one complete sentence. You might even try for correct capitalization, and punctuation. The results could amaze you.
post #1254 of 30263
is that smack?
post #1255 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by pab1219 View Post

is that smack?

That's a sentence that I can understand.

Try it with your plasma questions.

D-Nice's break-in settings are the first post in this thread:

The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread

Be sure to follow his instructions about how to use the break-in settings.

I don't think D-Nice has posted break-in settings for the 9G models, but you can use his 8G settings. Watch out for a 9G Kuro settings thread started by D-Nice.
post #1256 of 30263
thanks ht waits. no CAPITAL LETTERS FOR ME i'm excited and a newbie to posting, was posting as iwas thinking. trying to do better
post #1257 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by pab1219 View Post

thanks ht waits. no CAPITAL LETTERS FOR ME i'm excited and a newbie to posting, was posting as iwas thinking. trying to do better

It's tough to compete with James Joyce ("Ulysses") who defined stream of consciousness writing.

Do you have some kind of capital allergy? Does it cause a rash?

Enjoy.
post #1258 of 30263
Just got mine!! Amazing Amazing Blacks! Holy Cow.

Using the speaker out the drive my fronts for now until the new SC receivers come out.

This is one smart set. The Side Mask Mode 2 is great!

I have to read through to check which settings are the best - I tried optimum just for fun. Pretty neat to see the settings to adjust automaticaly.
post #1259 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

I just went back to re-read this post after your last comment. Colt, I'm no expert - but it sure sounds like something is wrong with this panel. Did you get it at a B & M, where you can exchange it? If not, I'd contact Pioneer and your dealer right away. Good luck!!

I got it at a local BB, so I should be able to easily get a new one. To the next poster after Vashti: I have... It looks good, but the blacks are lacking (in this situation), and it has an orange reflection where the monster junk was put on. BTW I do have blotches in the center of the screen and Buzz at 21 feet... My whole room. No dead/stuck pixels though.
post #1260 of 30263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chem View Post

Just got my new 111FD (I'm in Canada, so put me down as the first Canadian?)... planning on hooking it up and running the break-in DVD. I am also looking forward to D-nice's settings as well.


Sorry Got my 151FD last night!!!

Sucker!
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