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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 28701
7/9/08 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ercc View Post

Also what he said.

I liked your answer better
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post #1502 of 28701
7/9/08 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenbuddha View Post

Speaking of using stupid stb remotes as a primary, has anyone with Dish Network managed to find a code to get the 722 remote to work with the 111? None of the published Pioneer codes seem to work and the autodetect on the remote appears to be ineffective. I guess I'll have to pick up a Harmony at some point, but I'll be recovering financially from the TV for the foreseeable months to come...


Can't speak to that one. But has anyone had much success programming the Pioneer remote?? I've tried programming in codes for my TiVo, Pioneer BD, and Denon processor to no avail; its programming behavior is weird and random. The only thing I could get to work was the dang cable box, which I've pretty much decided to return since it's so annoying....
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post #1503 of 28701
7/9/08 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTanas View Post

I have PS3 and ComcastDVR both connect to Sony STR-DG910 which connects to the TV. So comcast remote just turns on all 3 devices at once: the DG910+TV+DVR.

If you keep everything on then there isn't much you can do with the Comcast remote. A better universal remote would give you better control.

Quote:


I'm still undecided, seems like Plasma needs much more care and caution to operate, but it does provide better colors and blacks, where as LCD doesn't require much caution. I've left TV on for almost a day on pause and it could care less.

Your use of a TV is a bit different.

For a absolute care free TV, you might check out the new Mitsubishi laser RPTV set that is coming. Of course it only comes in two sizes -- 65" and 73".

Quote:


Just 1 more question, since I'm more used to "Pop" colors of LCD, can these plasma's contrasts and colors be increased or are they pretty much maxed out. Because often when the room is brightly lit a dim-plasma would be a poor substitute for an LCD, for me.

If you like "torch mode" then I think you are right. A LCD panel is your best choice.
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post #1504 of 28701
7/9/08 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlarsen462 View Post

It's your Onkyo. When I ran my component 360 through my Integra DTC 9.8 (same manufacturer), the GHIII and Rock Band lag was horrendous, so I ended up running straight component to the panel and audio through the Pre/Pro (obviously). This made it much better, it was unplayable with the video lag from the 9.8. I'm getting an HDMI 360 soon and will be running the video through the 9.8 then, and I'm REALLY hoping I don't revisit that lag (i.e. I hope the lag through the 9.8 is a result of A/D conversion from component) now that it's just passing through a digital signal.

Check for firmware updates. I think I saw a post indicating that Onkyo have fixed the delay problem.
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post #1505 of 28701
7/9/08 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallenbuddha View Post

Speaking of using stupid stb remotes as a primary, has anyone with Dish Network managed to find a code to get the 722 remote to work with the 111? None of the published Pioneer codes seem to work and the autodetect on the remote appears to be ineffective. I guess I'll have to pick up a Harmony at some point, but I'll be recovering financially from the TV for the foreseeable months to come...

The number 637 worked for me on my 6020. The 722 remote must not put out much power though, because it has to be pointed directly at the sensor on the TV to work. I also have the Harmony One, but the Dish remote is still easier to use with the TV guide and since it's RF, it doesn't need to be in line-of-sight to the 722. So if we're just going to watch the PVR, we use the 722 remote. Anything else and we use the H1.
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post #1506 of 28701
7/9/08 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neobunch View Post

Thanks for the feedback, fanticalism, but let me just say that 60ms is, in fact, around the threshold where everybody would notice. The point where some do and some don't is around 30ms (or 2 video frames late). People who play fighting games (like street fighter) are used to pulling combos having execution windows of down to a single frame .

For FPS games, you have to "lead" targets by a bigger margin, changing the way you are accustomed to playing the game. And for rythm games like rock band the gameplay just feels off and unsatisfying (thankfully, these kind of games normally have a calibration tool, which bring another set of issues altogether but I won't go into that.)

To tell the truth, by the legendary status of the 5080 and the general feeling that "plasmas have no input lag to speak of" I was expecting it to have around 5-15ms of lag, which -while not perfect- is acceptable to me. By the small sample of answers here it seems the panel delays the image no less than 30ms and maybe as much as a 100ms (unplayable if you're serious about your gaming). Maybe the game mode does do something to minimize this this time around, but we don't yet have anyone chiming in with the numbers being different for the different modes on the same set.

So, you see, what we gamers really want is to have our cake and eat it too, by having the best PQ and motion resolution to be had on any flat-panel display together with a killer no-lag operation.

When I got my surround sound setup around 6 months ago I was crushed to discover that my receiver adds around 25ms of audio lag when processing dolby surround, this is pretty much unnoticeable for me when watching movies (pretty much), but it seriously deteriorated my rock band experience. On that day I vowed that, when the time came to get the HDTV, I would not make the same mistake and would do everything in my power to research whatever I intended to buy.

I'm only seriously considering Pioneer and Panasonic, with a preference for an elite pioneer, of course, but will ultimately decide based on which has significantly less input-lag. I hope it's the pioneer, and I hope you can see my dilemma (as petty as I'm sure it sounds).

I hate to quote such a long post, but it will be on another page, so quote I will.

It is in no way shape or form petty when you intend to spend the majority of time, wether it be small or substantial, gaming. I do play a lot of FPS's online, like COD. Problem is, I am still breaking my set in, so gaming is still a ways off, considering all the static images. When I do, I will pop in RB, with different settings, to see if lag is in anyway reduced. I will say this, my Pro 950 is much better with IL than the LN-T5271 that was replaced by my Pro151. I can only hope that the end result with 151 will be the same.

Best of luck to us both, more so me than you I guess, since I already own one lol.
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post #1507 of 28701
7/9/08 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post


SET TOP BOX RESOLUTION OPTIONS
(Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR)

Set Picture Format:
1. Fixed
2. Pass-Through
3. Upconvert-1
4. Upconvert-2

If FIXED is chosen, another sub-set of menu options become available:

Picture Format:
1. 1080i720p
2. 480p
3. 480i Wide
4. 480p Standard
5. 480i Standard


I have the same stb but my set: picture format doesn't have pass-through. It has auto dvi/hdmi instead and if I set it to fixed I don't get the sub-set menu options. Very odd.
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post #1508 of 28701
7/9/08 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTanas View Post

Hi all, could someone clarify to me 2 things:

1) On these sets there is almost never a permanent burn-in.

2) What happens if I watch SD for long periods of time without the "zoom" and have the black bars, will that create image retention and will that result in permanent burnin?

I know a few people have responded, but I may as well include my two cents.

Now, I speak from experience when I say, IR is not a problem, if the TV has been broken in properly. I fall asleep with my PRO 950, and my PS3 on the a BD selections screen all the time, considering the 950 is in my bedroom. So, if I don't get BI, or IR, with a static image running for 8 hours, than I think it's safe to say that it is not an issue.
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post #1509 of 28701
7/9/08 at 8:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post


Quote:
PIONEER MENU CHOICES:
1. Natural
2. Off
3. Wide-Zoom
(Depending on the choices above I see there's also the choice of Side Bar Mask, Option 1 and Option 2.)


Off. Switch to a 480i channel and set your stretch mode to Wide or Cinema. Then switch to a 1080i or 720p channel and set your stretch mode to Full or Dot-by-Dot.

If you choice off. Where do you fine the stretch mode setting with wide or cinema?
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post #1510 of 28701
7/9/08 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

Just as a side note, you mention a computer image was your reference for calibration. Televisions don't use the same standard range as a computer does. I think it's limited from like 16-235 whereas a computer's range is 0-255.

I apologize, but in my rush I was unclear. What I was trying to say that it was a graphic element on normal HD broadcast. Something like Mojo TV's all black, with some gray, interstitial logo screen. It wasn't from an actual computer. I was trying to say that it wasn't calibrated, for example, using some guy's black shirt on TV, which invariably would be gray.

And to follow up my Rockband calibration, the first calibration is at 110ms. I just played the drums at 110ms for the first calibration and 113ms for the second, and it was pretty good.

Lastly, regarding the Onkyo I wanted to simply note that I'm using the "Through" setting if that makes any difference. I have not upgraded to the recent firmware.
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post #1511 of 28701
7/9/08 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ercc View Post

you won't get burn in, don't even spend any time thinking about it. not burn it. It will completely self-correct with full-screen content.

Watching SD even for long periods is fine as long as its not the thing that you do 100 percent of the time with your display.

I think it is funny how people use the comment you can't get burn in but follow it up with just use common sense.

These two completely contradict themselves. If you leave 4/3 images or tickers on for 12 hours at a time very often b/c that is how you like to watch tv then people need to know if that could put them at risk.

Not worrying about burn in at all means never having to worry AT ALL about your viewing patterns and not having to exercise "common sense."

At work we have CNBC on for 20 hours a day every day. If we had a Kuro would this create burn in? I'm not saying a Kuro should be used in the office, but for some people who don't want to worry about burn in they shouldn't be told not to but to alter how they watch tv.

I agree that IR is a different issue b/c it isn't permanent.
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post #1512 of 28701
7/9/08 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

I think he just means that he uses the Comcast remote as his primary remote, and it doesn't have a TV input button. I can relate- I have come to hate everything about the Comcast equipment.

My comcast Hd/DVR Remote has an input button.
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post #1513 of 28701
7/9/08 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ks-man View Post

I think it is funny how people use the comment you can't get burn in but follow it up with just use common sense.

These two completely contradict themselves. If you leave 4/3 images or tickers on for 12 hours at a time very often b/c that is how you like to watch tv then people need to know if that could put them at risk.

Not worrying about burn in at all means never having to worry AT ALL about your viewing patterns and not having to exercise "common sense."

At work we have CNBC on for 20 hours a day every day. If we had a Kuro would this create burn in? I'm not saying a Kuro should be used in the office, but for some people who don't want to worry about burn in they shouldn't be told not to but to alter how they watch tv.

I agree that IR is a different issue b/c it isn't permanent.


I don't think Burn-in is anything to worry about either.
But you still have to use common sense. This is no different for LCD or CRT.
If viewing habits are as you describe (CNBC on for 20 hours a day every day with a station logo constantly in the corner) then it is possible that a CRT or LCD could get permanent burn-in also. Plasma is not the only tech that can Burn-in.

If the orbitor on a newer Pioneer Kuro is used properly then I don't think you should worry about burn-in any more than you would with a CRT.
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post #1514 of 28701
7/9/08 at 9:48pm
I finally got my PRO-151FD but haven't taken it out of its box yet. Unfortunately I don't have a wall mount selected yet but will soon. In the meantime, I'll just have it on its stand.
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post #1515 of 28701
7/9/08 at 10:40pm
Well I just cant seem to make up my damn mind! I'm torn between going with the PRO 151 vs the PRO 150 or 6020 AND a set of speakers. If I opted to go with last years elite or the 6020 I will have about $1k left over to invest in some desperately needed speakers. Have any of guys done a side by side comparison of the 6020 or 150 vs 151? What would you all do? I know this is off topic but is $1k a good budget for either a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker set? I already have the receiver. Really trying to decide if the extra $1k is worth it for the 151 vs my other options. Any input would be great.
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post #1516 of 28701
7/9/08 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft1888 View Post

The number 637 worked for me on my 6020. The 722 remote must not put out much power though, because it has to be pointed directly at the sensor on the TV to work. I also have the Harmony One, but the Dish remote is still easier to use with the TV guide and since it's RF, it doesn't need to be in line-of-sight to the 722. So if we're just going to watch the PVR, we use the 722 remote. Anything else and we use the H1.

Thanks for the reply, but it looks like the 111 requires a different code...
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post #1517 of 28701
7/10/08 at 12:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-AV View Post

I will have about $1k left over to invest in some desperately needed speakers.

For me, movies are not movies without a surround speaker system. If $1,000 isn't enough to get what you think is a good set of speakers, start with two main speakers if your receiver can simulate a surround effect. Then add a center channel, rear speakers and a sub as you can afford them.

I bought $1,300 worth of front speakers (LF, C, RF) for $600 when they were being discontinued to make space for the next years models. For speakers, that's a good way to move up in quality for less money.

You can also visit the speaker forum for all kinds of information about speakers in your price range.

If your receiver can do 5.1 surround then here is a surround setup in your price range that a lot of people like.

HSU 5.1 speaker system.

a. HSU Ventriloquist System (LF, RF C, RR, LR)
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vt-12.html
b. HSU STF-2 Subwoofer
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html
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post #1518 of 28701
7/10/08 at 1:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbb1 View Post

And to follow up my Rockband calibration, the first calibration is at 110ms. I just played the drums at 110ms for the first calibration and 113ms for the second, and it was pretty good.

Lastly, regarding the Onkyo I wanted to simply note that I'm using the "Through" setting if that makes any difference. I have not upgraded to the recent firmware.

Thanks again for your feedback, nbb1. So you're saying that you have the A/V offset at 110ms and the lag setting at 113ms? Man, those onkyos sure screw things up. The story I related about my sound system is precisely about an Onkyo, the 605. But in my case I only send audio to it, the video goes to the CRT and of course is lag free, so my settings are 30ms for the A/V offset (as the sound is coming later than the corresponding video) and 0ms for lag (as it's a CRT).

Well, it really is a relief to know that the lag is not caused solely by the kuro, as in your scenario the onkyo is an extra variable. No way of knowing how much lag the onkyo causes and how much extra the TV does.

One thing, though, have you tried running your tv directly from the console? you'd find your lag measurements go down and I think the drum fills and big rock endings will surely feel better . And congrats on being ranked in the 3000's, I'm finding it hard to complete the drums on, heh, "hard". If you do try it by linking the 360 to the kuro directly please share your calibration results, a lot of us fellow gamers would really appreciate it.

Regards
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post #1519 of 28701
7/10/08 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ks-man View Post

I think it is funny how people use the comment you can't get burn in but follow it up with just use common sense.

These two completely contradict themselves. If you leave 4/3 images or tickers on for 12 hours at a time very often b/c that is how you like to watch tv then people need to know if that could put them at risk.

Not worrying about burn in at all means never having to worry AT ALL about your viewing patterns and not having to exercise "common sense."

At work we have CNBC on for 20 hours a day every day. If we had a Kuro would this create burn in? I'm not saying a Kuro should be used in the office, but for some people who don't want to worry about burn in they shouldn't be told not to but to alter how they watch tv.

I agree that IR is a different issue b/c it isn't permanent.

I find it ridiculous that the term 'burn-in' is thrown around on these threads as a scare tactic by people (like your post) without a single report of it ever happening to someone on the kuros.

The discussions are of purely theoretical ways to get burn-in, and it is surely wise advice to tell people not to leave their tv paused for a week (a basic, basic precaution). Even the compltetely unrealistic scenario (for a home environment) of 20 straight hours of CNBC every day that you state probably wouldn't cause burn-in.

The main point that you are missing though is that people are merely stating ways to potentially reduce IR, not burn-in. These are the main precautions people speak of. Honestly though, 99 percent of people don't even need this advice as their viewing habits would either not cause IR, or they would never notice it or care before it self-corrected.

On the kuros, even the talk of IR may be a moot point due to the very few actual cases written about on here. Like all displays, the kuros do have issues (buzzing, etc.) but i would argue IR is very low on the list and burn-in of course doesn't even apply.
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post #1520 of 28701
7/10/08 at 7:45am
In home theater mag, it shows that the elite kuros are brighter than the normal kuros: http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasma...50/index4.html
(review of elite kuro) It says that the contrast ratio is 44000 :1, which means that the brightness is 44 ftl. In the ordinary kuro review: http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasma...10/index5.html)
it says that the brightness is 37 ftl. Is this a big difference? Is it noticeable?
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post #1521 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike!!!! View Post

In home theater mag, it shows that the elite kuros are brighter than the normal kuros: http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasma...50/index4.html
(review of elite kuro) It says that the contrast ratio is 44000 :1, which means that the brightness is 44 ftl. In the ordinary kuro review: http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasma...10/index5.html)
it says that the brightness is 37 ftl. Is this a big difference? Is it noticeable?

On/Off contrast ratios are simply the difference between peak white and minimum black. The reviewer of the 150FD simply calibrated the set with a peak output of 44Fl while the reviewer of the 6010 set the panel to a peak light output of 37fL. Niether is the max the panel can do.
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post #1522 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:03am
!!!!

Aren't those both 8g reviews?
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post #1523 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:15am
DOH! My wife just called me at the office and told me that the guys who are delivering my 151FD just layed it down on it's front when they took it out of the box. Should I be worried?!?
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post #1524 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Follow Who? View Post

DOH! My wife just called me at the office and told me that the guys who are delivering my 151FD just layed it down on it's front when they took it out of the box. Should I be worried?!?

They laid it down AFTER taking it out of the box? UGh....stupid. I would be pissed, and I would call the store right away you bought it from (assuming its their delivery guys) and ask if they thinks thats a reasonable thing to do. I would be worried the piano finish got scratched.
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post #1525 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:23am
Nah, I wouldn't be too worried. In the manual it even says to put it on it's face to put the base on (for the 60"). Some people don't (I didn't). The idea is not to transport it on it's face or back simply because it's easier to damage the glass that way.
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post #1526 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:40am
Yep, if they laid it on its face to put the stand on it, they're just following the directions in the manual. I was going to do that with my screen, but the delivery guy warned against it. It's easier to set the stand on the floor and lift the screen onto it.

As an aside, even though the manual says to do it, I'm glad the delivery guy said not to because it turned out that the glass was cracked, (we didn't take off the covering 'til it was on the stand), and by not laying it down on its face, we eliminated any possibility of the glass getting cracked on site.
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post #1527 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:40am
I called the store and they said that that is OK with these sets as long as they are careful, but to let them know if I find any issues. My wife said that she can't see any scratches or marks. I'll report when I get home tonight if anything got messed up. Sheesh, 6:00 is gonna be a REALLY long wait now!

Thanks for the feedback, guys.
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post #1528 of 28701
7/10/08 at 8:44am
In the review, it sez using the window pattern, the contrast was 44000:1, not with on/off method. Anyway I just wanted to ask: Is the difference between 37 ftl and 44 ftl noticeable?
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post #1529 of 28701
7/10/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike!!!! View Post

In the review, it sez using the window pattern, the contrast was 44000:1, not with on/off method.

You don't get a contrast ratio off of 1 window pattern. You use a 100% window pattern to set the peak light output on a plasma. So with a 100% white window, the reviewer set the peak light output to 44fL. Using a 0% stimuli full field or window pattern, the reviewer recorded a minimum luminance level of 0.001fL. You know the rest

Quote:
Anyway I just wanted to ask: Is the difference between 37 ftl and 44 ftl noticeable?

Yes. However, both panels can do 44fL easy.
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post #1530 of 28701
7/10/08 at 9:35am
My 151FD is being delivered and installed tomorrow afternoon. I can feel a real bad cold starting about noon tomorrow

My prior set was a 150FD so I am anxious to see the differences.

Scott
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