The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread - Page 551

Haha OMG I feel like the biggest idiot ever. I went to take a picture of the port so I pull my tower out from under my desk and low and behold,

It's a boy!

I guess when I crawled under the first time to look it was too dark and they looked like holes to me, even online in a picture of the back of the PC it looked like a female but it was a pretty small picture. Haha sorry for wasting everybody's time. At least now I know all I need is a F/F straight through cable, a controlCAL key and I'm set!

the volume output of the headphone jack is so low level its not an option.
ill try the speaker outpus.
why they designed the unit this way i have no idea

It varies where you sit in the room from approx 11.5ft (sofa) to 14ft. There are times I wish Pioneer had a made a 70" version of the Elite. I'm still pleased with 60" however I've had parties where I have the panel extended and turned 90 degrees (the panel can be viewed through a opening with columns from the kitchen) and it would have been nice to have a larger screen. For normal viewing in the family room 60" is perfect.

steve

I highly recommend getting a meter and doing a cal. yourself.

It is alot of fun, you learn so much on how displays work
and how certain adjustments affect others. I'm extremely happy
with my I1pro and Calman purchase.

Mike

+2

New owner's report. I just got the 111 this week to replace my aged Sony KZ-32TS1. Who would've guessed that the Kuro beats my 7-year old plasma TV? I can now "see the light" (or lack thereof) about how important having good blacks are to the viewing experience. And good colors. And larger size...

I'd also like to report on my experience with the IR Repeater Out port on the 111. Hooking up an emitter from that port to my TiVo actually worked great (despite the fact that the user manual states it'll only control other Pioneer equipment). So one mystery solved.

I'm enjoying the discussion on these AVS forums and appreciate the insight provided by others here. Now I just have to figure out a much lower profile speaker setup to replace my Bose 901 IVs that have been consigned to the garage by my wife.

I also recommend doing a calibration. On Wednesday afternoon I had the pleasure of having Gregg Loewen visit my apartment. He worked on my all Pioneer Elite setup which has a Kuro 111FD, a 05FD BD player and a 01THX AV receiver. Gregg calibrated my Kuro 111FD for Pure, ISF Day and ISF Night modes. He also did a 5400K Movie mode for me to view old black & white movies (my request). I have a funny feeling that I will be leaving the Kuro on the ISF Night mode the majority of the time.

All I can say is what a difference his calibration made. I thought that the Pure mode settings that I had been using based on D-Nice's settings were extremely good, but once I viewed the ISF modes that Gregg calibrated on my Kuro I am now hooked on recommending a professional calibration to all of my friends. This definitely makes a big difference on the Kuros.
All I can say is OMG!!!

In addition he installed a Ideal Lume Standard Light on the back of my Kuro at no extra charge as I had purchased the light from his website. http://www.lionav.com The light really makes a difference when viewing the Kuro in a dark room setting.

Gregg also checked out my audio settings. This included making sure my AV receiver was correctly set up, that all speakers were on the correct size, that I had the correct crossover timing and phase and was SPL balanced. He then made a number of adjustments in my 01THX receiver. I had done the Pioneer auto MCACC setup and he showed me how they were not accurate. He also changed the positioning of my speakers by toeing them in to my sweet spot on the sofa. After he was finished I could definitely hear the difference.

Gregg took the time to properly explain everything in a step by step manner about what he was doing and answered all of my questions no matter how ridiculous they were. He is a true professional and I highly recommend him to everyone.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

I dont understand how people are achieving differnt brightness (FTL) using the same mode (ISF day). How are some only getting 42ftl and others 51ftl? Does this mean they are adding more contrast and brightness? Is everyone using dnice settings but ending up with different brightness? Right now my isf day looks about as bright as PURE, how do I increase this? Thanks

The Contrast Control is what's adjusted for that. If you change it, you should redo the calibration (using a meter).

The label isf Day is really meaningless, the same settings could be used in isf Night with similar results (i.e you could use isf Night for more light output and isf Day for critical viewing in a light controlled/darkened room - though it makes more sense to use isf Night for that ).

What is your Contrast Setting in Pure and what are you using for isf Day? A meter and software like ColorHCFR or CalMAN would be needed to get the actual light output.

LOL thanks for your Report..

Hire a professional guys PLEASE, hell id almost be will to pay for 1/2 just so I don't have to read your DIY calibration postings.

turbe, stop selling user copys of ControlCAL , Pretty please with sugar on top!!

Actually I was holding back. After viewing Dark Knight again after the calibration was done by Gregg in a totally dark room with the Ideal Lume Standard Light on and using the ISF Night mode I was blown away at the detail I missed previously and how much improved the overall viewing experience was post calibration.

my Pure was 38 contrast 0 brightness and my ISF day is the same. I assumed the settings would look different because ISF day would have more light output by default similar to how sports mode with 38 contrast looks brighter than Pure mode at 38 contrast.


so if I understand this right, those that need more light output are simply raising the contrast and brightness setting higher than what DNICE suggests and balancing them with a meter to ensure they are not getting black crush or clipping whites? Is this what makes the ISF modes so great? They have more flexibilty in terms of how much light they can output before looking bad? OK, I think you just answered a lot of my questions, thanks as always turbe.

How does Advanced procinema look to others on bluray? Everyone seems to suggest it, but I see serious judder when using it. How do horizontal pans look using advanced for you guys? Smooth seems to be much smoother, though it has artifact issues every now and then and doesnt move as fluid.

Oh, don't worry, we all do it sometimes! I'm glad it got "resolved" and you can now proceed....!

How can you tell if it is doing better than the Pioneer? Do you do an ISF cal with the oppo settings or just doing an A/B comparison? I've done several A/B comparisons with my Reon processor against the 151FD, and for the most part they seem to look the same, and at times it looked better than the 151 depending on what I was viewing and what I felt was the correct setting. Yet, the next day the PQ didn't look as good.

There are so many controls in the GUI on my Integra for setting Custom, ISF Night, ISF Day, contrast settings for each individual color of RGB, brightness and so on that it's all guess work unless I use meters and a program, like ControlCal to see the changes. Better yet, someone who is experienced with the Integra DTR9.9 that could shed some light on what is the best approach. Audio wise, it's incredible!!

The write-ups on the Reon AQV processor make it seem like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, yet I have rarely heard much on Anchor Bay. Even though it has been mentioned that the Pioneer scaler is better than the Reon per Jeff Meir, how accurate is that? Maybe he just didn't want to mess with it and rather just calibrate using the internal 151 scalers.

Though Integra is made by Onkyo, I have not seen the GUI on the Onkyo 900 series receivers. Integra is the flagship, just like the Pioneer Elites and non-Elites have different capabilities... People say the 900 series is similar to the Integra DTR9.9, yet they are built differently and I am not sure the scaler/resolution access in the menus are the same. I guess I can't accept that the Reon is not as good as the ones in the Pioneer 151FD. I need more proof and have to research more, or find out how to tweak the settings properly...

Thanks for confirming the IR repeater functionality. As for low-profile speakers, if you happen to be wealthy, you could get a set of Sunfire ribbons.

Oh, and add a SubRosa flat panel sub, just for kicks. Literally for kicks!

Okay, I think we're getting somewhere. When I asked about your screen size setting, I don't mean the selection in your Oppo, but literally that setting in the Kuro. In most TVs, this setting is called "aspect ratio," but Pioneer calls it "screen size." It includes a number of options, depending on the type of incoming signal.

Try DOTxDOT for your Kuro input that receives the Oppo. You could also try FULL or AUTO, but I find that DOTxDOT is generally best for player sources.

I got to ask this. Say tomorrow Pioneer comes with a new display up their sleeve, and say this display is evidenced to be 4-5% better than current generation of Kuros. Say it sells for $300 more. Which one would you buy if you didn't already own your current display?

That's surprising but I haven't tried it myself with my Kuro. I have used this method with the headphone output of several MP3 players and it worked file. I would expect it to be loud enough if you are connecting to a receiver or powered speakers. It probably wouldn't be enough for unpowered speakers.

OK. I don't blame you as I would give the exact same reaction in your shoes.

Let me clarify. In my set up I have a PS3, Oppo 980, NR-906, and 111. Pre-calibration, for DVDs, I was using 980 to send 480i to NR-906 and I was making 906 upconvert to 1080P. For HD channels (I don't watch SD), I was again sending native resolution to 906 and having the resolution upconverted to 1080P in 906.

After calibration, it turned out that PS3 was the better transport for DVDs. Now I am watching my DVDs in PS3 rather than in Oppo. PS3 is handling the full DVD upconversion responsibilities. It also turned out that 111 created less artifacts than 906 when converting 1080i to 1080p for HD channel viewing. At the moment my 906 is used only as a pass-through for video since my other components proved to be superior.

As I mentioned previously, I am not feeling great about this situation since I wasted a bunch of money for no reason. What makes it worse is I am not even using some other bells and whistles that I paid for such Dynamic Volume and EQ since using them will effectively negate Jeff's sonic adjustments. I could as well buy a $600 receiver and it would be more than enough since I have small KEF eggs for speakers.

To answer your question about Integra vs. 906, from all I had read they have the exact same scaler.

I would strongly recommend you to get your equipment professionally calibrated. You will not only have a much better opinion in what source to use, but it will also clarify many of your confusions.

headphone output was about .05 volts at max volume level
using a voltmeter unloaded

Headphone jacks really aren't meant to be used that way. For any source, including the Kuro, a line level audio signal is meant to go to an external system for amplification and attenuation. Sorry if I've forgotten the original issue, but what exactly was the problem with just using the Kuro's L/R analog audio or OPTICAL out jacks?

I also recently had Gregg Loewen calibrate my 151. My experiences are similar to NYC Guy above. Gregg is quite the professional. He was using around $32k worth of equipment. Fascinating to watch and learn what he was doing and how the equipment was operating. Here are some observations.

I was using Pure mode before the calibration, having decided that the Performance and Standard, while providing initial-appearing POP, lost too much black detail and showed artifical-looking faces, etc. I can, however, understand how people who are not "well versed" in image quality characteristics would like the more vivid modes best. (No judgements, here.)

Gregg calibrated for Pure and ISF DAY and Night. While the new Pure is nice, it does not compare with either of the ISF modes. The advantage of calibrated Pure is that you can still tweak the setting to your liking; you can't with the ISF modes. What those modes give me are much brighter images while retaining all of the contrast and POP of the "vivid" modes, but enhancing black levels and especially shadow detail to provide a more natural image and facial quality. Frankly, I'm suprised how much better the ISF modes are than anything I was using before. All you who raved about the differences in the calibrated images were/are correct.

I find that I use ISF DAY the most, since even at night, I usually have a reading lamp on ("multitask") for causal magazine flipping, etc while watching HDTV. In any case, there's always a little ambient light, so the room is never pitch black. In a dark room ISF Day provides a too "glarey" (sp.) image. When I watch a BD at night, getting the room as dark as possible, then I use ISF Night - it's a revelation. With either ISF mode, I don't have to fiddle with any other settings (since they're locked, anyway). That's a pleasure in itself.

I highly recommend professional calibration for anyone who can afford the $400+ bucks. The difference is well worth it. What I now have is the satisfaction of knowing I not only have the best set available, but the best PQ for that set. People like me, then, can just sit back and watch without anymore wondering about getting a better picture.

Regards, Rod

Good to hear. I'm having him calibrate my set this summer. My D-nice settings while decent are certainly not accurate right now. I'm pretty sure my blacks are getting crushed and that there's a green push.

I don't have a PS3 or Oppo, so I'm wondering if the results would be different with my hardware? My transports are a Panasonic DMP-35K(BluRay) and a Toshiba HD-A20(HD-DVD). I have DirecTv and do not view SD either. I don't have any complaints with my Integra, it is far better than my previous Onkyo TX-DS989. The power band and codec processing are incredible along with my 4 subwoofers.

I notice a lot of complaints about artifacts, and judder. I never see any of that regardless of what device I am using for video conversion. The only thing I see on occasion are jaggies, usually from SD content when channel surfing on DirecTv.

I will some day entertain a pro-cal, but first I need to get more familiar with my gear and all their features and most importantly I want to know what all the menu items do. My TV is only 3 weeks old, the manual is 165 pages, my Integra is 2 months old, the manual is 162 pages, just the English section that is! I'm pretty comfortable with the Panasonic right now. There is a lot to digest in the short period I've had this gear. It's not a matter of confusion, it's a matter of experimenting and seeing for myself and digging in to see what this latest technology is doing... I am familiar with most of this stuff, it's my hobby!

I can't imagine for the life of me how the average person that wants to enjoy HT is able to figure all this out on their own...

I think so, too. I'd like to find some folks in the area, who might be interested, too. It'd be pretty cool for us all to help each other calibrate our displays

LOL - see previous post... we're almost close enough to each other. I'd really like to see it in action. I'm sure I could muddle through, but it helps when you have someone to help navigate around the pitfalls.